Too much color for PCGS ?
Walkernut
Posts: 123 ✭
I just received some coins back from PCGS grading service. Three of the coins were purchased from a seller on Ebay that claimed they all came out of a Wayte Raymond album. One, a 1941-p walker, was graded AU-50 and the other two came back "questionable toning", which I take it to mean artificial toning. I believe I once read that if the coin was too "artfully " toned that it wouldn't be graded. If that is true then do you suppose that a coin that was toned naturally but came out looking like the two no-grade coins shown below would run into that prejudice.
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Russ, NCNE
Thanks!
Earl
Hell, I don't need to exercise.....I get enough just pushing my luck.
<< <i>The coins were bought from medman6 earlier this year. He currently has some of his colored coins in ANACS holders up on Ebay's auction site right now. Since most people thought these were AT, I got them cheap and for that reason I will hold onto them as a learning tool. I do appreciate your responses. Gary >>
Wow, here is one "medman6" has listed that got into and ANACS 63 holder:
The finalizer must have been on vacation the week that was graded!!
<< <i>Agree with Russ.....the 1st one doesn't scream AT, but that second one had no chance in my humble opinion. I know the seller you are referring too as he was selling tons of these Blue/Purple walkers on Ebay earlier this year. >>
Russ is "THE MAN" when it comes to AT. He's also the king of AHs!!i
<< <i>I just received some coins back from PCGS grading service. Three of the coins were purchased from a seller on Ebay that claimed they all came out of a Wayte Raymond album. One, a 1941-p walker, was graded AU-50 and the other two came back "questionable toning", which I take it to mean artificial toning. I believe I once read that if the coin was too "artfully " toned that it wouldn't be graded. If that is true then do you suppose that a coin that was toned naturally but came out looking like the two no-grade coins shown below would run into that prejudice.
The toning/ color looks fake on the last two Walkers.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
Russ is "THE MAN" when it comes to AT. He's also the king of AHs!!i
just received some coins back from PCGS grading service. Three of the coins were purchased from a seller on Ebay that claimed they all came out of a Wayte Raymond album. One, a 1941-p walker, was graded AU-50 and the other two came back "questionable toning", which I take it to mean artificial toning. I believe I once read that if the coin was too "artfully " toned that it wouldn't be graded. If that is true then do you suppose that a coin that was toned naturally but came out looking like the two no-grade coins shown below would run into that prejudice.
consider yourself lucky you got one AT coin out of three in a pcgs holder and one ugly mother grabber to boot
It's not the first time or the last that everyone will hear me say : "Whether it is natural toning or artificial.... it will keep a coin from making the ultimate grade." This thread demonstrates why I feel that way. $36.00 for tuition isn't that bad if you sent them economy ... I hope you didn't send it through express service.
I also know that millions of dollars exchange hands every year and that these "colored" coins are HOT...but to me, and I may get beat up in this thread for saying this: Rainbows look better in the sky and toners work better in a cartridge, when printing
Okay, it happens, and it's natural, particularly with the bag toning that occured with old canvas mint bags, but then the tab toning showed up, then album toning, then artificial toning.... heck , why not make PVC some kind of TONING, too .... and if it is a significant coin, i.e. Key Date, Low mintage, VAM, rare...okay I accept them in a slab, but they are overrated in my opinion and given way too much attention. They are loud like an old woman's perfume.
------- in search of MINT STATE 70 , where I can see the cartwheel, luster, fields, details and legends, the lack of bag marks and a coin's overalll EYE APPEAL .........WITHOUT DISTRACTION !
<< <i>I believe I once read that if the coin was too "artfully " toned that it wouldn't be graded. If that is true then do you suppose that a coin that was toned naturally but came out looking like the two no-grade coins shown below would run into that prejudice. >>
Ding, ding, ding. Once again, a question for the ages. The answer is, sadly, YES. A very nice NT beauty can get lumped into the AT mindset. It's too bad, but it's true. It's also perfectly understandable.
I told a story recently about an older proof dime that I personally opened after 50+ years and it was a wild orange with reds and levenders fading into purples and it was fully toned on both sides. It merited a body bag for AT twice.
It took three submissions, but it's now in a PR 66 PCGS holder. I recently looked closely at it again and the purple is moving in from the outer rim, though not in any uniform manner.
So, yes, very nice NT coins can be so stunning or so unusual that they can appear to be blowtorch AT jobs. As you learn a bit more, you will see what is real and what probably isn't. There is a pattern to NT coins, which isn't to say that some NT coins don't always follow the book. Still, after all is said and done, no one can be 100% sure everytime. With regards to your 3 coins, I have to agree with the concensus. They do look typically AT. The last one does indeed scream out for it.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>It's not the first time or the last that everyone will hear me say : "Whether it is natural toning or artificial.... it will keep a coin from making the ultimate grade." This thread demonstrates why I feel that way. $36.00 for tuition isn't that bad if you sent them economy ... I hope you didn't send it through express service.
I also know that millions of dollars exchange hands every year and that these "colored" coins are HOT...but to me, and I may get beat up in this thread for saying this: Rainbows look better in the sky and toners work better in a cartridge, when printing
Okay, it happens, and it's natural, particularly with the bag toning that occured with old canvas mint bags, but then the tab toning showed up, then album toning, then artificial toning.... heck , why not make PVC some kind of TONING, too .... and if it is a significant coin, i.e. Key Date, Low mintage, VAM, rare...okay I accept them in a slab, but they are overrated in my opinion and given way too much attention. They are loud like an old woman's perfume. >>
You shouldn't get beat up for your opinions anymore than those that talk about widgets. The hobby is big enough for all opinions and collecting styles and I for one and happy when folks don't like toners as that leaves more for me
Russ, NCNE
Did they mention whether the album had been around any liver of sulphur?
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
The top one that graded: Amazing they only have that AU50. That is outrageous from what I can tell. That sure looks MS to me. AU50? huh?
The 2nd one down: Not blatantly AT but the obverse looks "odd". Reverse could go either way if not for the obvious problem on the front. But if the obverse were white (ie normal) this one would get graded.
The bottom coins: Blatant AT on the obverse. That blue/purple look is hilariously bad. Reverse looks similar to #2 and same result.
jom
<< <i>Coinhusker1. Copying and pasting someone's picture and utilizing it on the net is a violation of US Copyright Law. >>
FAIR USE NOTICE This site contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner. We are making such material available for research. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.
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Got this off a site using copyrighted material. Not sure if it's valid, but hey, it sounds good. I am NOT a lawyer.
<< <i>
Got this off a site using copyrighted material. Not sure if it's valid, but hey, it sounds good. I am NOT a lawyer. >>
I have seen it argued that photos of US coins cannot be copyrighted unless their is some kind of artistic expression involved. I think Wikipedia takes that view. Not a lawyer either.
My Web Sites
<< <i>It's not the first time or the last that everyone will hear me say : "Whether it is natural toning or artificial.... it will keep a coin from making the ultimate grade." This thread demonstrates why I feel that way. $36.00 for tuition isn't that bad if you sent them economy ... I hope you didn't send it through express service.
I also know that millions of dollars exchange hands every year and that these "colored" coins are HOT...but to me, and I may get beat up in this thread for saying this: Rainbows look better in the sky and toners work better in a cartridge, when printing
Okay, it happens, and it's natural, particularly with the bag toning that occured with old canvas mint bags, but then the tab toning showed up, then album toning, then artificial toning.... heck , why not make PVC some kind of TONING, too .... and if it is a significant coin, i.e. Key Date, Low mintage, VAM, rare...okay I accept them in a slab, but they are overrated in my opinion and given way too much attention. They are loud like an old woman's perfume.
------- in search of MINT STATE 70 , where I can see the cartwheel, luster, fields, details and legends, the lack of bag marks and a coin's overalll EYE APPEAL .........WITHOUT DISTRACTION ! >>
Just as a note, some of the highest graded "old" coins have extreme toning. Might want to check out TDNs sets in the registry for them. IIRC, there's some MS68 oldies with incredible toning.
-Daniel
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
Doug
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<< <i>
Got this off a site using copyrighted material. Not sure if it's valid, but hey, it sounds good. I am NOT a lawyer. >>
I have seen it argued that photos of US coins cannot be copyrighted unless their is some kind of artistic expression involved. I think Wikipedia takes that view. Not a lawyer either.
I am of the opinion that you are incorrect. All photographs, no matter the subject, may be copyrighted, despite what Wikipedia says...Mike
<< <i>Coinhusker1. Copying and pasting someone's picture and utilizing it on the net is a violation of US Copyright Law. >>
First last weekend's football game, now this. Don't worry Russ, I'll slip you some nice, sharply denticled morgans, in some cupcakes, that you can use to saw the bars off the cell window and make your escape
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Got this off a site using copyrighted material. Not sure if it's valid, but hey, it sounds good. I am NOT a lawyer. >>
I have seen it argued that photos of US coins cannot be copyrighted unless their is some kind of artistic expression involved. I think Wikipedia takes that view. Not a lawyer either.
I am of the opinion that you are incorrect. All photographs, no matter the subject, may be copyrighted, despite what Wikipedia says...Mike >>
I am not incorrect as I have indeed seen it argued.
Personally, I agree with you about the copyright issue on coin pics. However, on the picture listed here, I doubt it would get past the fair use issue. Still not a lawyer, though.
My Web Sites
<< <i>Coinhusker1. Copying and pasting someone's picture and utilizing it on the net is a violation of US Copyright Law. >>
Hmmmm - no cut and paste here -- just describing the auction and hyperlinking the pic.
I think there should be an exception to the copyright law. If a person owns the coin I feel they should be able to use anyone's picture of what is now their coin.