Frozen coins

ddink · March 29, 2004 2:15PM

In one thread not too long ago, someone suggested putting mint rolls of silver eagles in the freezer overnight in order to get them out of the tube. Well, they're in the freezer now, but I was just wondering--what, if any, effects do temperatures have on coins? I just looked at them a little while ago and they look, well, frosty. I'm also noticing tiny marks on the coins that I hadn't seen before (either dings or breaks in the luster, not sure without a loupe)--do cold temperatures somehow make flaws easier to spot, or is it my imagination?

dlimb2 · March 29, 2004 2:32PM

Hummm frozen coins...well you put coins that were of room temperature into the freezer...change of temperature caused condinsation on the coins and the drop in temperature caused ice particles to collect upon the coins...now if your looking at frozen condensation I would suspect that it would be the flaws you are seeing...Wen objects freeze molecules contract...when you heat them up they expand.

ddink · March 29, 2004 2:36PM

I hadn't thought of condensation--how much harm do you think the water will do to the coins?

Cladiator · March 29, 2004 2:43PM

heat makes metal expand and cold makes it contract

BowAxe · March 29, 2004 2:55PM

I'm skeptical about that suggestion. I'd be very concerned that condensation on the coins would result in spots remaining after the water evaporated. It might have been a good idea to put just one test coin in the freezer to see what would happen when you took it back out. Condensation should not occur while the coins are sitting in a frost-free freezer unless there was enough warm, moist air already inside the tube when it went into the freezer. However, condensation would be expected to develop immediately upon bringing the cold coins back out into the warm room, unless you live in an extremely arid climate.

Dell

mrearlygold · March 29, 2004 2:58PM

Whatever you do, DO NOT put them in the microwave next!

Rgrds
TP

ddink · March 29, 2004 3:01PM

Hmm...it seems I've painted myself into a corner. Is there anything I can do to limit the damage caused to the coins when the inevitable condensation occurs?

BTW, this is where the idea was suggested:

Link to other thread

famousramos · March 29, 2004 3:04PM

After using my camera in the cold wintry outdoors then wanting to come inside to the nice clime of my abode, I was told to put my camera inside a Ziploc bag before coming inside. This would keep the moist air away, preventing condensation, until the camera warms up to room temperature.

If you tried this method I would attempt to put them in the Ziploc bag before completely taking them out of the dry air of the freezer.

Bear · March 29, 2004 3:17PM

Please, dont nobody expose your coins to extremes of temperature.

If you want to freeze something go with popsicles. You want to bake

something, Use cookie dough.

Rob790 · March 29, 2004 3:21PM

Cold slows down all physical and chemical reactions (which is why your food stays fresh), so the ice on your coins for the short time frame should have no effect, even on relatively highly reactive silver. Put them in a zip lock as previously mentioned and after removing them (in the ziplock still) from the freezer, place them on a metal surface to quickly conduct away the cold and bringing them to room temp. After you could use one of those compressed gas cans that people use to clean computers to quickly dry off any moisture as this is way better than using a towel to pat them dry - do NOT rub a coin with a paper towel, it will scratch the surface (make sure you spray the compressed gas in the proper upright position or else you'll be spraying the compressed liquid onto the coins and it WILL leave a permanent stain!). I think this is way overdoing it but if you want to be extra safe this should keep them extra safe.

Rob790 · March 29, 2004 3:22PM

Or you could use a hair dryer to dry them out, on low or no heat.

LALASD4 · March 29, 2004 3:24PM

Would a coin break like glass if it is put into liquid nitrogen? or at what temperture does the bond between the metal molecules be broken?

Rob790 · March 29, 2004 3:42PM

No, it wouldn't break by just mearly putting it into liquid nitrogen, but hit it hard enough after pulling it out and it would shatter (people have faked 'error' coins doing this). But the stresses of the metals contracting and expanding for a non-uniform alloy could cause it to warp or break. The metal molecules losen at the melting point and completely break at the evaporation temp. You plan on doing some experiments?? Let us know your results.

BowAxe · March 29, 2004 3:42PM

Rob790 is right about the towels--do not pat or rub the coins to remove the moisture. I would avoid the compressed gas because of fear for what microscopic amounts of the propellant might do to the coin surfaces over the long haul. It is possible that no spotting will occur if you simply place the coins on a clean, soft towel to let the condensation evaporate. However, you could take the extra precaution of a rinse in warm DISTILLED water before setting the coins out to dry, and that should eliminate spotting (provided your distilled water is not contaminated!)

Dell

Cladiator · March 29, 2004 3:47PM

Oh Hell...just pull the tube of coins out and sell it on the bay of E as an "unopened/unsearched ASE roll" and take the money and buy yerself a new roll LOL

Outhaul · March 29, 2004 8:01PM

<< <i>Would a coin break like glass if it is put into liquid nitrogen? >>

I've done this with both liquid nitrogen and liquid helium with no effect.

Cheers,

Bob

ibzman350 · March 29, 2004 8:09PM

I tried the freezer trick this past weekend, Didn't help me out any.

the ASE still didn't want to come out of the tube.

Herb

joeyuk · March 29, 2004 8:22PM

This may sound funny but if you put the coins in the fridge for a while then the freezer for a slower cool it may keep the coins dry. Then after the coins are frozen put them in the bag before removing them.

BAJJERFAN · March 29, 2004 9:13PM

You will at most get a fog or haze on the coins not puddles. Have a hair dryer handy and or wait for a low humidity day. The common household freezer probly doesn't really get cold enough IMO.

Conder101 · March 30, 2004 12:02AM

A standard freezer is nowhere near cold enough to accomplish what you are trying to do. That's why I keep suggesting liquid nitrogen. The intense cold of the liquid nitrogen will make the plastic very brittle and it will shatter easily. (Or at least the rigid plastic of the older tubes would. I have to admit I'm not so sure about the softer plastic of some of todays polyethelyene tubes.) And no the silver eagles will not shatter at liquid nitrogen temperatures.

BAJJERFAN · March 30, 2004 12:39AM

The idea is to shrink the coins so they fall out easier not to make the plastic brittle. does anyone know if the coins this year ARe the usual tight fit in the tubes OR are they more easily removed.

ddink · March 30, 2004 1:16AM

I took them out of the freezer, took two small bowls and put a cookie sheet on top of them, then took a space heater and turned it on low so it was blowing over the pan (to keep the pan a little over room temp and help with heat transfer), then put the roll inside three ziplock bags and put it in the middle of the elevated cookie sheet. After 30 minutes, I took a kitchen towl, spread it on the table, and covered it with a handkerchief (sp?). Then I took a hammer (I don't have a mallet) and wrapped it in a sock, and very very gently inverted the tube and tapped on the bottom (now top) outside of the tube, nowhere near where the bottom coin is. The idea is to create vibrations, not to knock them all out. If you are careful you should be able to get one or two coins out at a time. Then I took a hairdryer and used it for a few minutes. The coins look good so far--I ordered a Bausch and Lamb Hastings 7x loupe (per advice I read on these forums) and it should be coming soon, but until then I don't have a loupe! Under the naked eye the coins look REALLY nice (how do you tell if it has hairlines though, will they show up under magnification?--I read you should get a halogen light, but how much do they cost. I was looking at them under natural light), but until I get my loupe I gently wrapped them in the towel (I had arranged them in rows and just slowly rolled up the towel).

Thanks for the advice!

Tootawl · March 30, 2004 1:22AM

Does putting the SAEs in the freezer give them a FN designation?

BAJJERFAN · March 30, 2004 3:22AM

no its FT for Frozen Tundra LOL I just put a roll in a freezer at 40 below.

relayer · March 30, 2004 3:58AM

Personally, I just open them and turn the tube upside down. It is not as elaborate was your procedure, but it works.

jasbucks · March 30, 2004 5:02AM

I've had 2 rolls of the 04's & both were tight by my limited experience. I do just like relayer but very slowly rolling the tube in my hands to get the coins loose generally 2 to 4 at a time. The coins at the very bottom are what really make my butt pucker cuz they have to travel the most. I just keep the tube moving over the towel so that if I'm not quick enough being slow they won't fall upon themselves.
I have an associated question tho....Now that they are out of the tube what do ya put them in? I went to the local coin shop & they sold me a bunch of those 2 1/2"X2 1/2" little cardbord thingies with the plastic cover that ya stapel shut. I asked him if that plastic was PVC & he didn't know but thats what they keep all theirs in; but his face said more than his mouth & the SAE's that were out he handeled like poker chips. Does anyone here know what I'm talkin about? Should I store them in somethin else? They have only been in those 2x2's for about a month max...

66Tbird · March 30, 2004 5:06AM

Yep, just invert the tube onto a soft surface and tap on the bottom and let a coin at a time fall. When the tube starts getting empty then use cotton balls to stop the falling of one coin on another. When you get to the last coin, lift the tube and hit the soft surface letting the wieght of the coin do the work.

After a while I could get the first hit to drop 3/4 of the roll into a stack, then the fun starts

Some times they do go clink

MacCoin · March 30, 2004 5:35AM

what will you guys come up with next?

BAJJERFAN · March 30, 2004 5:45AM

2x2's are cellophane and won't hurt the coins.

jasbucks · March 30, 2004 5:49AM

Thx Bajjerfan

BAJJERFAN · March 30, 2004 2:09PM

Stored a roll of 2004 ASE's in the freezer at 40 below for about 8 hours. There were still hard to get out of the tube. They did frost over for a bit but in a few minutes they were ok. Is it common to find new coins "in the tube" that have contact marks from the rims of other coins?

BTW I had to tap the bottom of the tube rather smartly to get the last few out. Methinks that I will not bother freezing them next time and as far as I can tell there is no water spot damage from condensation.

Cam40 · March 30, 2004 2:52PM

or you could dress up like an indian and dance around the tube and chant the indian
chant for to `open coin tube` HEY YA na na Hey YA hun nuh...

nankraut · March 30, 2004 3:08PM

Take 'em out of the freezer and immediately lay a blowtorch on em for about 2 minutes. Then, sell them as "monster toners" for "awesome prices".

BAJJERFAN · March 30, 2004 9:20PM

bump bump bump

Neptune · March 30, 2004 10:24PM

thanks everyone for a very chilly, entertaining read while drinking my hot tea this morning - guess this is what they call 'cold cash'.

Put the dehumidifier in the bathroom and shut the door overnight, so there won't be any humidity in there. Then you can take your cold cash in there to warm it up.

JoyofCollecting · March 30, 2004 10:30PM

I wouldn't have put them in the freezer to begin with....

but now that you have.....

be sure to use the "tumble dry" button when you pop them into the dryer.

Conder101 · March 30, 2004 10:38PM

<< <i>Is it common to find new coins "in the tube" that have contact marks from the rims of other coins? >>

Yes, the SAE's are minted just like the regular coins. They come spitting out of the press and drop down landing on top of each other. Scuffs and marks from contact with other coins is common.

BAJJERFAN · March 30, 2004 11:06PM

<<"I wouldn't have put them in the freezer to begin with....">>

And why not? What have you got to lose by trying?

This tube was pretty clean as far as marks go, but I did note at least one with some rim contact marks. Another way is to turn the tube upside down and whack it with a mallet. If half of the coins come out as a neat stack the fill the empty space with loose kleenex and reapeat. When you get down to the last couple coins just put light finger pressure (wearing gloves of course) and repeat again.

<<"be sure to use the "tumble dry" button when you pop them into the dryer.">>

Not necessary, the coins were dry and like new in about 2 minutes.

Frozen coins

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