**Fraud Alert: Remember notorious pack counterfeiter (Waxgold)?--He's back!!!

summerof68 · January 22, 2010 2:12AM

Most of you long-time board members who collect vintage packs are already familiar with the notorious vintage pack counterfeiter (waxgold) out of Michigan who was kicked off ebay a few months back after I exposed him here with indisputable proof that he was using a second ebay id (toppsfleer231) to buy his wrappers and singles.

Prior to Michigan he worked out of the Kansas area counterfeiting packs using more id's including (bbwax, rainquaker, quinterw, ryan231231).

After exposing (waxgold) months ago this thief seemingly disappeared though I knew he would eventually resurface with a new set of ID's--and my assumption unfortunately was correct.

You board members will remember that I recently exposed a new and very prolific ebay pack counterfeiter (Anderson84352) who is currently listing packs on ebay and is buying his wrappers & singles using a second Id (kenny92008). You'll remember that this ebayer was very deceptive and he listed his (Anderson84352) location as California and his (kenny92008) id as Michigan.

And of course Michigan rang a loud bell as (waxgold) was working out of Michigan before he was naru'd. So I sent many inquiries to individuals who have won packs from (Anderson84352) and also sold wrappers & singles to (kenny92008) and I have received positive confirmation that (anderson84352) is none other than (waxgold) himself.

So here is a confirmed list of current and past ID's used by current ebay pack counterfeiter (anderson84352):

anderson84352
kenny92008
waxgold
bbwax
toppsfleer231
quinterw
rainquaker
ryan231231

"somebody please stop the insanity"

initialD · January 22, 2010 2:25AM

Sleuth of the Year!!

THANKS!!!

Great Work!!

itzagoner · January 22, 2010 2:45AM

that's funny, i spotted the anderson auctions on ebay last week and immediately thought of you.....a credit to the hobby, thanks for your persistence and keep up the good work.

hammered · January 22, 2010 2:47AM

Summer
Do you know anything about this guy?
link

summerof68 · January 22, 2010 4:11AM

hammered,

First let me apologize for my coming down on you a few months back concerning your defense of Roger Clemens after I characterized Clemens as being a "pathological cheater". We were both passionate in our views of him and I should of shown more respect for your opinion of him. Sometimes my love for the "golden era" of MLB clouds my view of many stars from the steriod era.

With respect to ebay pack seller (tjs6121) I know little about him. I distinctly remember back in '05 when he first surfaced on ebay. The very first pack he listed was a gai slabbed '72 Topps baseball wax pack--And yes Carew29 my memory is that good!!

I remember because he took the picture of the pack while leaving it in the gai protective sleeve and it made it difficult for me to ascertain the player visible on back and indicating the series. I contacted him and from that point on he removed the sleeves.

Point being that for the first few years all his baseball pack listings were from the '70's (including 1970) and all were slabbed by gai. So I naturally assumed his packs to be legit.

However a couple years ago he stopped listing slabbed packs and only listed raw packs from the 70's. So I contacted him and asked him why and his response was that too many of his high-grade raw packs were experiencing wrapper tears (from the gum) during shipping so it was not cost feasible to have them slabbed.

And again this excuse could be seen as legit considering wax tears happens very freqently.

However it's been five years now and his supply of raw '70's wax seems inexhaustible. Plus this seller routinely sells '70's wax wrappers on ebay in another category but with the same ID.

I've yet to focus on this seller and I will admit that (if) his packs are "bad" he does an outstanding job in constructing packs with respect to corner folds and overall tightness of the packs.

Well respected board member grote15 (who incidently knows much more about unopened material than myself) recently commented on this board with a brief opinion concerning this particular seller. Perhaps he will chime in tonight and express his observations.

waxpack · January 22, 2010 4:27AM

Thanks for the great info!

Stone193 · January 22, 2010 4:28AM

<< <i>"somebody please stop the insanity" >>

Unfortunately as long as there's an ebay, there will be scammers - to include 'resealers.' I think ending the insanity would be like tryin' to piss up a rope.

It's just too easy and as long as no one prosecutes? They'll continue - it's easy money for the criminally minded individual.

First, I don't buy unopened packs - and if I did - there's no way I would ever consider buying from someone on ebay except for someone I really knew well - it's just plain too risky.

Heck - I even bought from a reputable dealer way back in 1993 and got crap - 10 51T red back packs - lucky for me - I was a good customer and they returned my money - every card in the pack had signs of wear.

Thanx for your hard work.
mike

fattymacs · January 22, 2010 4:49AM

Another fine job, thanks for keeping the heat on these guys.

mtcards · January 22, 2010 6:26AM

An intersting point looking at his feeback. He SELLS lots of wrappers, all v"Exhibit the usual wear of having been opened". Now does this mean he buys a lot and sells the wrappers or does this mean that these are the wrappers he couldnt get to pass for having been Unopened if they were resealed.......draw your own conclusions.

mcolney1 · January 22, 2010 6:35AM

If it quacks like a duck.....

RipublicaninMass · January 22, 2010 6:35AM

gotta love the no returns policy as well.

MULLINS5 · January 22, 2010 8:55AM

<< <i>a credit to the hobby, thanks for your persistence and keep up the good work. >>

grote15 · January 22, 2010 12:34PM

Hammered, stay away from tjs6121...who is a more recent reincarnation of resealer "boyerendeavorsllc" once upon a time. He is better at it than most, and has fooled a lot of buyers over the years...he's been using that tag line "there can be no returns or exchanges" since the early days, and I suspect he also has a method to fabricate authentic wax seals..his packs are definitely NG.

DrLou · January 22, 2010 12:36PM

I love when the bad guys get caught with their hands in the cookie jar, thanks for the information

SidePocket · January 22, 2010 12:42PM

Summer your avatar is perfect. Here comes Clint to hunt down the bad guys. Another first class post and great detective work.

70chip · January 22, 2010 12:54PM

Simmer, great work!!! Thanx for the heads up

summerof68 · January 22, 2010 1:09PM

Grote15,

Thanks for the great information. Your point regarding his possibly having a method of fabricating authentic roller seals is very interesting considering that in his early days from '05 & '06 he was mostly selling gai slabbed '70's era baseball packs. This makes me wonder if all of these same gai slabbed wax packs he sold during those two years were in fact "homemade" and fooled the "revolving door" of authenticators at gai.

But why did he suddenly stop submitting packs? Is it possible that gai finally got wise to him and designated him as a "problem submitter"?

Whatever the case I now have a gut feeling that there are alot more "homemade" packs in Gai holders than I originally thought.

SidePocket · January 22, 2010 1:57PM

It's hard to imagine GAI turning away a submitter.

Beezer12 · January 22, 2010 4:39PM

I still had a couple of 81 and 82 OPC hockey packs bought from Boyer back in the day before I know better. He had endless listings of 5-10 pack lots and eventually folks got suspicious. I opened them out of curiousity last month. I can tell you that his work was crappy and i seriously doubt it would pass authentication in any volume. No roller lines even, just uniform, remelted wax barely holding the flaps together. You have to see good seals side by side with bad ones under magnification to really tell good from bad, there is no other way really to be sure.
Grading costs exceed the value of the packs being sold by most of these guys so they have no reason to develop the skill to replicate authentic looking roller seals. They just have to be good enough to fool inexperienced buyers who haven't seen the difference in person yet.
People used to complain to GAI when he started selling an occasional slabbed pack but others thought he mixed in good graded stuff to boost his legitimacy, who knows. Remember, this was a few years back when searching for rookie cards drove the pack market rather than the current search for high grade commons, whose value is fueled by the Set Registry. He seeded his packs with rookies and stars so you would still get them, feel good about it and give good feedback, but they would not be of grading condition. The commons are actually pretty nice but no one cared so much back then.
BTW, got an OC Andy Moog RC with 4 corner dings. I recall years ago getting a Bourque RC with a surface wrinkle and surface wear and a Gartner RC with corner wear from some 80 OPC I unfortunately bought from him. Live and learn.

grote15 · January 22, 2010 6:10PM

Some of the baseball packs I've seen were a bit better than the resealers you see on ebay these days, but they were still unmistakenly bad. To find out for sure, though, you'd have to open the packs (at which point it became painfully obvious the cards were garbage) but most buyers kept the packs sealed at least until after pos FB was left. It's remarkable to me that these crooks don't get more negs, but I suppose that's mainly because most experienced unopened collectors stay away from these scammers and that leaves a rather uninformed pool of buyers (until they find out for themselves, that is)...it doesn't take advanced technology to fake a roller seal, and thoiugh it won't look legit next to a nice authentic pack, quality control was rather poor at Topps during the '70s, and I've opened a few packs that came straight out of cases that may give a collector pause, so these guys capitalize on that sliver of uncertainty to make a buck...

hammered · January 23, 2010 4:01AM

<< <i>Hammered, stay away from tjs6121...who is a more recent reincarnation of resealer "boyerendeavorsllc" once upon a time. He is better at it than most, and has fooled a lot of buyers over the years...he's been using that tag line "there can be no returns or exchanges" since the early days, and I suspect he also has a method to fabricate authentic wax seals..his packs are definitely NG. >>

Grote et al
Many thanks for the info, I was going to compete on those 5 packs if the bidding stayed reasonable

**Fraud Alert: Remember notorious pack counterfeiter (Waxgold)?--He's back!!!

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