Opinion Requested Re Jackie Robinson Cut Autograph Card
JackWESQ
Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
A 2001 SP Authentic Jackie Robinson Cut Autograph PSA 8 sold for $1,092.00 (First Card Pictured Below).
Up for auction currently is an Ungraded 2001 SP Authentic Jackie Robinson Cut Autograph. (Second Card Pictured Below).
I'm no autograph expert, but looking at the two cards, I see some distinct differences; the most obvious being "Jack" versus "Jackie". And while no two autographs are the same, these seem really different. Was Mr. Robinson known to sign his name using "Jack" and "Jackie"?
/s/ JackWESQ
Up for auction currently is an Ungraded 2001 SP Authentic Jackie Robinson Cut Autograph. (Second Card Pictured Below).
I'm no autograph expert, but looking at the two cards, I see some distinct differences; the most obvious being "Jack" versus "Jackie". And while no two autographs are the same, these seem really different. Was Mr. Robinson known to sign his name using "Jack" and "Jackie"?
/s/ JackWESQ
0
Comments
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Mike
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
/s/ JackWESQ
good luck but if it is me I would rather have the whole check instead of the cut out piece.
Jackie Gleason, Jackie Cooper
I don't think it is disrespectful at all.
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i>Seems calling Jack, Jackie is like a way of keeping him down. Like calling someone "boy" or something. Or calling someone "Pal" when your not really pals. >>
and
<< <i> Jackie has always been a name used for someone named Jack. >>
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I gotta vote for the first view.
Being a Jack and a ute in the South, nobody ever called me "Jackie."
NOT saying the South was more racist, I don't think that is true,
but adding little suffixes to black guys names was a way for
some white folks to be both over-familiar and superior.
I also recall that black men named, for example, Alfonse and Clarence
and Wilfred seldom had their names shortened by the boss. The full
names were called out as a reminder that the guys had "black names."
It was all pretty subtle, but when you live inside of it you get it.
...........
I don't recall if I have noted this here, but as a tiny ute the bus drivers
used to make old black ladies give up their seats for me. I used to tell
our black maid about it and she would just say, "Such is life."
<< <i>
<< <i>Seems calling Jack, Jackie is like a way of keeping him down. Like calling someone "boy" or something. Or calling someone "Pal" when your not really pals. >>
and
<< <i> Jackie has always been a name used for someone named Jack. >>
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I gotta vote for the first view.
Being a Jack and a ute in the South, nobody ever called me "Jackie."
NOT saying the South was more racist, I don't think that is true,
but adding little suffixes to black guys names was a way for
some white folks to be both over-familiar and superior.
I also recall that black men named, for example, Alfonse and Clarence
and Wilfred seldom had their names shortened by the boss. The full
names were called out as a reminder that the guys had "black names."
It was all pretty subtle, but when you live inside of it you get it.
...........
I don't recall if I have noted this here, but as a tiny ute the bus drivers
used to make old black ladies give up their seats for me. I used to tell
our black maid about it and she would just say, "Such is life." >>
Wow, so we discover Storm's name is Jack AND that he's 87 years old in the same post?! AMAZING! You're a mystery wrapped in a riddle Storm!
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The signs in the bus that read
"Colored Seat From Rear: White Seat From Front"
did NOT come down until the 1960s.
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As late as 1969, we had a lake house in a rural community.
On one visit, I recall a banner that spanned the little town
street on the day of a civil rights march. It had a slogan that
I had seen many times in the tiny retail establishments; it read,
"XXXXXX DON'T LET THE SUN SET ON YOUR XXXXX AXX IN (town name)"
40-years seems like a long time to some folks, prolly not to some others.
<< <i>"...Wow, so we discover Storm's name is Jack AND that he's 87 years old in the same post? ..."
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The signs in the bus that read
"Colored Seat From Rear: White Seat From Front"
did NOT come down until the 1960s.
///////////
As late as 1969, we had a lake house in a rural community.
On one visit, I recall a banner that spanned the little town
street on the day of a civil rights march. It had a slogan that
I had seen many times in the tiny retail establishments; it read,
"XXXXXX DON'T LET THE SUN SET ON YOUR XXXXX AXX IN (town name)"
40-years seems like a long time to some folks, prolly not to some others. >>
Scary that this country was that way not all that long ago.
And I know you're not that old Storm, twas a joke.
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I have never heard that calling him Jackie instead of Jack was demeaning. Is there any evidence on this theory? If so, I would entertain the idea. I just don't buy it on its face. I think it is interesting.
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection
Now this is just an argument, but if the name "Jackie" were in any way demeaning, I do not think the HOF or Robinson's widow would have made the conscious decision to include it in the new plaque. But like I said, this is just an argument. I'm still trying to find out who was the first person to call Mr. Robinson "Jackie" or how he came to be generally known as "Jackie."
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i>What about Jackie Jensen? Who hated him? Lots of people call me Jimmy. Does it mean they are trying to insult me?
I have never heard that calling him Jackie instead of Jack was demeaning. Is there any evidence on this theory? If so, I would entertain the idea. I just don't buy it on its face. I think it is interesting. >>
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I would not say it was an overtly racial thing. But the practice
of lessening blacks by "calling them out of their name" was
certainly common practice.
I would also not be surprised, though I have not researched it,
if Branch Rickey had counseled JR that using the name "Jackie"
would "soften the threat" and lessen any lingering reference to
Jack Johnson among white folks.
Jack Johnson
JR's mother likely called him Jackie, but it would not necessarily have
stuck as part of a white man's baggage into adulthood. The context of
the practice was part of keeping blacks in "their place" by casting
them as childlike characters that needed the benevolent protection of
the white bwana.
...............
Calling James as Jimmy is, obviously, not seen as demeaning. However,
back in the day, a proud black man named James would likely have felt put
upon when his overly familiar boss called him "Jimmy" or "Jimbo." Context is
everything, and the subtleties of subjugation are not easily/readily grasped
by folks who have not seen/experienced it first hand.
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From link below........
Jackie Robinson
The other star in the drama was Jackie Robinson, the player Rickey finally chose to break the color barrier. For those of us, young and old, who watched the drama unfold, Robinson was the major star, although he described himself as "only a principal actor" in Rickey's play. Rachel Robinson, his widow, probably got it right when she described them as "collaborators."
He was born in Georgia in 1919, the youngest of five children. His father, a poor sharecropper in a deeply racist state where lynchings were not uncommon, abandoned the family when Jackie was an infant. His mother, Mallie, moved the family to Pasadena, California, where she thought they might have a better chance, when Jackie was barely more than a year old. She worked as a domestic, and there were days when meals were missed. Although it wasn't the Deep South, Pasadena reflected the general racism of the time, compounding the pressures of poverty. When Mallie was able to buy a house in an otherwise white neighborhood, efforts were made to drive the family out.
Jackie's older brother Mack was an outstanding athlete, winning a silver medal at the 1936 Berlin Olympics, by finishing second to the legendary Jesse Owens in the 200-meter sprint. Despite his fame and his college education, Mack could find nothing other than janitorial work, as blacks were excluded from competing for other, more attractive jobs. So, as he was growing up, Jackie Robinson was no stranger to racial subjugation. ..........
Branch and Jackie
Now this is just an argument, but if the name "Jackie" were in any way demeaning, I do not think the HOF or Robinson's widow would have made the conscious decision to include it in the new plaque. But like I said, this is just an argument. I'm still trying to find out who was the first person to call Mr. Robinson "Jackie" or how he came to be generally known as "Jackie."
/s/ JackWESQ
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His mother likely called him "Jackie."
A name can be a term of endearment, or it can be a put down.
It would be appropriate that the plaque - and other refs - would
note that he was called "Jackie." That is how the world knew him.
Now, here is an auction for Robinson's 1941 Senior Yearbook from UCLA. There, Mr. Robinson is referred to as "Jack" and "Jackie". (see images below).
Based on this, I think it is reasonable to conclude that Robinson got the name "Jackie" sometime after he graduated from high school, before he graduated from UCLA, but certainly before he integrated major league baseball. Now, could people have been calling him "Jackie" as a pejorative name? Of course. But that would have started well before his major league playing days.
/s/ JackWESQ
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Maybe no one ever called him "Jackie" instead of "Jack"
on account of them being mean to him.
Maybe Rickey never contemplated the softness of "Jackie"
vs the harsher/threatening "Jack."
My observations are just about how names in general were
used to manipulate and control.
A black high school yearbook would be expected to be more
formal. "Jack" was the guy's name.
But, the 1937 book is a JC book. Not a HS book.
The UCLA book does use both names. Could be just a function
of genuine familiarity and wanting to make someone feel
like one of the family. Could be a form of "mascotting," but
any notion that he was treated "equally" in college is likely
ill-founded.
AND, it could be that Jack Robinson liked being called "Jackie."
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I have lived lots of places and found NOT one where some
large part of the population did not hold "racist viewpoints."
Some were expressed differently, but they were about the
same everywhere.
I well realize that folks say things "are different now" and
that America's youth is "post racial." That's fine, but it is a
pretty new phenom.
Even the new US AG is not clear that much has changed.
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection