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Thread Title: Why the heck does Eckersley get in on the first ballot but Goose Gossage continues to get no respect?!?!
Created On Wednesday January 07, 2004 9:13 PM

Gemmy10
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Posts: 4140
Joined: Feb 2001

Wednesday January 07, 2004 9:13 PM

?!?!?!?!?!?!

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DeutscherGeist
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Posts: 2791
Joined: May 2003

Wednesday January 07, 2004 9:27 PM

You cannot write baseball history without the Eck. He was an innovator. He showed that after having a good career as a starter, he could still contribute effectively as a closer. Instead of retiring, he got second wind. Actually, the role of the closer changed. Under the engineering of La Russa and Dave Duncan, the Eck became a 1 inning specialist that closed out games effectively. The Eck was dominant in that role and started a trend that can still be seen today. Mariano Rivera fits that mold, as he is primarily used for the last inning, but can pitch 3 innings occasionally depending on the team's needs. But the great thing to keep in mind about the Eck was that he was no spring chicken and still dominated.

Goose was one of the most nastiest pitchers, but is he really that exceptional? I mean, Lee Smith and Sutter would get in if Goose does. I have nothing against Goose and would have to do more research before arguing for or against. We just can't have too many players in the HOF as it should be reserved for the top of the best players. One player a year should be inducted, but no more, otherwise the Hall would be diluted and overcrowded and people would stop caring. Next year is Boggs turn.

Goose would be put in by the Veterans committee if he continues to be endure the test of time as one of the nastiest pitchers ever. If all of a sudden there is a surplus of Mariano Rivera types, then Goose has little chance. Let's see if anyone else can come close to what the Goose accomplished. Only time will tell.

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DeutscherGeist

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BigKidAtHeart
Master Collector

Posts: 8820
Joined: Oct 2001

Thursday January 08, 2004 8:29 AM

I am not totally sure that the name GOOSE
is not the main problem.
I mean, come on, how serious can you take
a man named Goose?

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Vargha
Yeah . . . whatever

Posts: 16830
Joined: Aug 2001

Thursday January 08, 2004 8:36 AM

Eck is worthy of the vote.

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Heh� / My lawyers will be contacting all of you!�
DavidVargha@hotmail.com

soli Deo gloria

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oaktown
Senior Member

Posts: 353
Joined: Dec 2003

Thursday January 08, 2004 8:57 AM

Gossage will get in, as he should. Eck's more attractive selection because of the big win totals and high profile A's teams of the late 80's. But Eck's selection will clear the road for deserving relievers like Sutter and Gossage. And Eck has great hair.

Posts: 149
Joined: Aug 2003

Thursday January 08, 2004 9:38 AM

Eckersley, Sutter, Smith, and Goosage? The last doesn't seem to fit to me. Goose was as nasty as they come, but when I look back he was the bottom of the top tier, maybe upper second tier. The other three were better

Eckersley, like stated above, was a starter and reliever during his career, which helped his longivity. Eckersley was almost as nasty as goose. Put up amasing numbers as a reliever. But lastly Eckersley played for very successful, and popular, athletic teams. Think about was any team getting the media like the a's back then?

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Need professional help for a strange obsession for 1984 Ralston Purina cards
NO LONGER COLLECTING 84 RP PSA GRADED CARDS. HAVE ANY SGCs FOR SALE?

Posts: 712
Joined: Jan 2003

Thursday January 08, 2004 4:51 PM

Heck, if I were on the committee I'd throw Gossage a vote just to
thank him for that beautiful homer he gave up to Gibby in the '84 WS!

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NickM
Master Collector

Posts: 5312
Joined: Aug 2001

Thursday January 08, 2004 6:50 PM

CW - change the year and you could give Eckersley a vote too.

Nick

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SDSportsFan
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Posts: 6475
Joined: May 2003

Thursday January 08, 2004 8:23 PM

Eckersley may have been with the A's of the late 80s/early 90s, but don't forget that Gossage was the closer for the Yankees from 1978 thru 1983 and was in both World Series wins for the Yankees.

It's also interesting that of the four pitchers we're talking about, only Sutter didn't give up a famous post-season homer. Eckersley and Kirk Gibson in 1988, Gossage and Gibson in 1984, and Smith gave up the 1984 NLCS tying walkoff homer to Steve Garvey in game 4, allowing the series to go to the fifth game. Sutter did close out the 1982 World Series with the save in game 7 against the Brewers. Sutter was also the inventor of the split-finger pitch, which so many pitchers have subsequently used with success.

I think Eckersley, Gossage and Sutter definitely belong in the Hall of Fame, but I'm just not sure about Smith. I was just looking at their stats, and discovered one interesting one.

Smith only had one year, 1983 with the Cubs, where he had an ERA under 2.00 (1.65), and five more under 3.00

Gossage had four such seasons (1975, 1977, 1981 and 1985), led by 1981, when his ERA was 0.77! He also had eight more seasons under 3.00

Sutter had two seasons (1977 and 1984) with ERA's of 1.34 and 1.54. He also had five more seasons with ERA's under 3.00.

Eckersley had three (1989, 1990 and 1992) with ERA's of 1.56, 0.61! and 1.91, and five more seasons under 3.00 (counting his days as a starter).

So, looking at that, Gossage is actually the leader, with 12 seasons (nine consecutive, 1977 - 1985) with an ERA under 3.00. Eckersley's second with eight, Sutter next with seven, and Smith fourth with six.

Steve

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My Get-Up-and-Go done got up and went

If winning isn't important, why keep score?

If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.

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aro13
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Posts: 2716
Joined: Apr 2002

Thursday January 08, 2004 8:55 PM

Eckersley is definately a unique and interesting case. His career as a starter is not enough to justify entrance to the Hall of Fame and his career as a reliever is not Hall of Fame worthy by itself. However, the combination of the two makes him a first ballot Hall of Famer. In that regard it is unfair to compare him to a pitcher who has been only effective as a reliever his whole career.
BTW- Gossage and Eck both gave up memorable ALCS homers too. Brett took Gossage deep in the 1980 ALCS and again in the Pine Tar incident (although it was only a regular season game) and Roberto Alomar hit a huge game winning homer off of Eck in the 1992 ALCS.

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Gottabuyit
Member

Posts: 166
Joined: Jan 2004

Thursday January 08, 2004 9:18 PM

He was also a decent starting pitcher.

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