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'52 Mantle Authenticity Opinion
bbcemporium
Posts: 684 ✭✭✭
I have a seller who wants to sell me a complete 1952 set minus 20 cards. He has provided me a picture of the Mantle, any opinions on grade and authenticity?
Registry Sets
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
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<< <i>I'm no 52 Mantle guru but I found this:
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Excellent Primer!
<< <i>I'm no 52 Mantle guru but I found this:
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Thanks, that is a great link. It looks like the seller has the Variation A card.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
Steve
<< <i>Thanks fattymacs, that was a great read! Why would anyone bid on a Mantle on ebay if it was not graded by a reputable TPG. >>
As Steve mentioned, this card is not being sold on eBay, but through a private collector who has a near complete '52 set. He has a beautiful Ed Mathews rookie if anyone is interested in seeing it.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
<< <i>Yes, I'd be interested in seeing a scan of the Mathews - always nice seeing scans of reprints. >>
Are you saying the Mantle is a reprint?
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
<< <i>Yes, I'd be interested in seeing a scan of the Mathews - always nice seeing scans of reprints. >>
Here is the Mathews
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
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<< <i>Yes, I'd be interested in seeing a scan of the Mathews - always nice seeing scans of reprints. >>
Are you saying the Mantle is a reprint? >>
Yes.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Yes, I'd be interested in seeing a scan of the Mathews - always nice seeing scans of reprints. >>
Are you saying the Mantle is a reprint? >>
Yes. >>
Steve, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on the authenticity of the Mantle, but I'd like to hear why you think it is a reprint?
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
<< <i>I say legit. >>
Nothing about the card leads me to believe is a reprint (granted I haven't seen it in person yet), but a raw '52 Mantle is always a source of concern. The one reassuring point is the fact that the seller has a near complete '52 set which leads me to believe it may be authentic. He also has 2 Andy Pafko cards if anyone is interested in seeing the pictures.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Yes, I'd be interested in seeing a scan of the Mathews - always nice seeing scans of reprints. >>
Are you saying the Mantle is a reprint? >>
Yes. >>
Steve, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on the authenticity of the Mantle, but I'd like to hear why you think it is a reprint? >>
Because I've heard the "story" a thousand and one times before - scam artists are very, VERY clever...they know the "stories" as well and always try to come up with new twists - I don't even need to "analyze" the card to know it's a fake...and besides...it looks like a fake...I don't like the "aging" on the card at all...doesn't look like natural aging to me for a '52 Topps, and sorry I'm not gonna provide any more details of what the aging should look like - you can either believe me or not...it's your money.
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<< <i>I say legit. >>
Nothing about the card leads me to believe is a reprint (granted I haven't seen it in person yet), but a raw '52 Mantle is always a source of concern. The one reassuring point is the fact that the seller has a near complete '52 set which leads me to believe it may be authentic. He also has 2 Andy Pafko cards if anyone is interested in seeing the pictures. >>
But I'll "bite" - what's the full story on the seller if you care to disclose the general details..what did he or she tell you about himself/herself, and why are they selling and why did they happen to choose you to sell to?
If it was me, I would have the key cards sent to PSA prior to shelling out some serious cash.
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<< <i>
<< <i>I say legit. >>
Nothing about the card leads me to believe is a reprint (granted I haven't seen it in person yet), but a raw '52 Mantle is always a source of concern. The one reassuring point is the fact that the seller has a near complete '52 set which leads me to believe it may be authentic. He also has 2 Andy Pafko cards if anyone is interested in seeing the pictures. >>
But I'll "bite" - what's the full story on the seller if you care to disclose the general details..what did he or she tell you about himself/herself, and why are they selling and why did they happen to choose you to sell to? >>
Steve, they found it in their grandpa's attic... just kidding. Actually, the person is a collector who has a large collection and I imagine he is probably in need of money or just wants to see what he "could" get for the cards. I have a website that I advertise buying private collections through, but in this case have a business associate/dealer who does this full-time and often offers me collections before selling them on eBay. I've never purchased a '52 Mantle before, but am aware of the risks, hence the reason I started this thread.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
Steve
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Ditto.
And, that always brings me back to the question:
"Why would ANYBODY SELL such cards without having PSA take a look?"
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Do honest sellers simply like to leave money on the table?
Not usually.
<< <i>"If it was me, I would have the key cards sent to PSA prior to shelling out some serious cash."
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Ditto.
And, that always brings me back to the question:
"Why would ANYBODY SELL such cards without having PSA take a look?"
..........
Do honest sellers simply like to leave money on the table?
Not usually. >>
Storm, good point, especially with cards of these values. I have purchased raw collections in the past from people who don't want to deal with the hassle/cost of grading or quit collecting before grading became more mainstream. But I agree, when dealing with a '52 Mantle, I won't lay down a penny before I work out a deal with the seller to get it graded. Granted, the seller may not agree to this or want more money after it gets graded, but I don't think the risk is worth it to buy it raw.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
<< <i>The heck with the Mantle. How much does he want for the Matthews? >>
Check out the 2 Pafko cards as well. One is in bad shape, but the other looks nice
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
<< <i>can you somehow make the purchase contingent on the mantle at least grading a number with psa. what number isnt important, but it has to at least grade something other than authentic. try to have the sale contingent on that. have the price set ahead of time. from the pics it is hard to tell, but i would value the mantle at $12000 and the mathews at $2500 from the pics if real and not altered. i have sent in probably 1000 1952 topps into psa for grading but it is hard to tell from pics. i have never seen reprints which look like them. i would like to see the pafko and runnels. beware and make sure the mantle isnt trimmed. you cant tell from the pics. the right side may be questionable. >>
cohocorp, good point. I definitely agree that the sell price needs to be established before the cards is graded and the only purpose of the grading should be to prove its authenticity.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
<< <i>
<< <i>can you somehow make the purchase contingent on the mantle at least grading a number with psa. what number isnt important, but it has to at least grade something other than authentic. try to have the sale contingent on that. have the price set ahead of time. from the pics it is hard to tell, but i would value the mantle at $12000 and the mathews at $2500 from the pics if real and not altered. i have sent in probably 1000 1952 topps into psa for grading but it is hard to tell from pics. i have never seen reprints which look like them. i would like to see the pafko and runnels. beware and make sure the mantle isnt trimmed. you cant tell from the pics. the right side may be questionable. >>
cohocorp, good point. I definitely agree that the sell price needs to be established before the cards is graded and the only purpose of the grading should be to prove its authenticity. >>
i agree. but it cant grade just authentic, it has to be a number, even if it is just a psa 1. this will show that it wasnt altered. you should be able to figure out around what range it should grade with seeing it in hand. same goes with the mathews.
How do you know you'll get the same card back?
What if they damage it?
What if it's lost in transit?
These are smart and reasonable people that asked me these questions. Just because we are all very comfy with TPGs some people are genuinely skeptical and fearful. An old-time collector might not want to send his prized 52 Mantle to a far-off place and hope it returns ok, it dosen't automatically make him "dumb" or "shady".
Good luck
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I say legit. >>
Nothing about the card leads me to believe is a reprint (granted I haven't seen it in person yet), but a raw '52 Mantle is always a source of concern. The one reassuring point is the fact that the seller has a near complete '52 set which leads me to believe it may be authentic. He also has 2 Andy Pafko cards if anyone is interested in seeing the pictures. >>
But I'll "bite" - what's the full story on the seller if you care to disclose the general details..what did he or she tell you about himself/herself, and why are they selling and why did they happen to choose you to sell to? >>
Steve, they found it in their grandpa's attic... just kidding. Actually, the person is a collector who has a large collection and I imagine he is probably in need of money or just wants to see what he "could" get for the cards. I have a website that I advertise buying private collections through, but in this case have a business associate/dealer who does this full-time and often offers me collections before selling them on eBay. I've never purchased a '52 Mantle before, but am aware of the risks, hence the reason I started this thread. >>
Well, you seem to have a good handle on the situation and what to look out for with scammers and as you stated, you are aware of the risks. Frankly, with so much information available now on the internet, it's hard for me to believe there are any "babes in the woods" anymore when it comes to expensive collectibles. I'm not saying there isn't opportunity out there for sharp buyers, but I think you've got this right that if the collector is legit, he's just checking to see what's going on out there, and unless you have an "in" with the collector such as you're family or a friend or a close connection of some kind...that if this guy is legit, he's gonna quickly figure out that to get maximum value, he's gonna have to send the cards in to PSA to be graded. And since he's contacted your business associate, he's likely contacted perhaps dozens of other buyers or dealers as well. I'd be quite surprised if he didn't know, especially since he is a "private collector" that the Mantle card raw on ebay might fetch $100, but in a PSA slab might fetch $20,000...so a legit collector presenting a legit card raw like this for sale is really a waste of time for him for all intents and purposes....that is unless he's trying to lure in a sucker to offer him a few thousand dollars for the card...which is exactly why I believe it's a reprint, as well as the other reasons mentioned.
In any event, good luck with whatever transpires....maybe you'll strike gold here, but I don't think so.
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<< <i>The heck with the Mantle. How much does he want for the Matthews? >>
Check out the 2 Pafko cards as well. One is in bad shape, but the other looks nice
The "beater" could be genuine which is an old scammer trick to mix in genuine commons or key card beaters in a lot with high grade key card reprints, to "fool" the mark into thinking the whole lot is genuine.
A good friend of mine with a 200k comic collection refuses to have CGC grade his books.
I've tried to tell him that it is not hard to do. He continues to insist that he is afraid that they will switch them on him.
There are people out there like him.
H also has a card collection too, a NM Mars Attacks set and a decent 55 set I'd grade at EX/MNT.
20 years ago I sold him a NM-MNT 52 Bowman Mantle for 1k
To this day he refuses to have them graded.
Steve
in NM or better condition to fetch the big dollars.
I'm just thinking aloud, as it used to be one of those condition sensitive scarcities.
Maybe Pat Coho can add to it.
Steve
Edited to add: Yes that is till basically the situation in low grade it is at best a 50.00 card.
It jumps from 2k in 6 to 20k in 7 (according to smr) So there is no reason to dirty up the Pafko.
years ago only the minty versions sold for big bucks.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Why does Pafko have two different colored backs? >>
Common Variation on 1952 Topps. No issue there.
Some consider the black backs slightly more desirable.
Steve
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
Steve
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"