Is high-grade pre-1975 raw becoming really hard to find?

11235813 · June 1, 2008 2:07AM

Thoughts?

I've been having a very difficult time finding PSA 7/8 quality raw cards for the vintage sets I've been working on (1955 Bowman FB, 1956 Topps FB, 1961 Fleer BKB). What are the impressions of the other vintage raw card collectors out there?

Matt

VitoCo1972 · June 1, 2008 2:20AM

I built my whole 61 Fleer set from raw cards. I think they're definitely out there. Just don't buy raw on eBay for that set if you can avoid it. I did a lot of mine at shows (a small amount on eBay - like the Jerry West that I paid $130 for that graded as a 7.5! - got real lucky there) - yeah it cost a little more but I feel like I got much nicer cards out of it. Plus, at shows, you still find the dealers that think grading is stupid or a fad so they still have nice raw stuff - that's harder to come by on eBay.

dizzle · June 1, 2008 2:21AM

For 1961 fleer basketball it's very very tough.. On ebay.

11235813 · June 1, 2008 2:39AM

<< I did a lot of mine at shows >>

Problem is that I live in a city, Seattle, where there are virtually no shows (three decent ones a year) and no stores (less than five in the whole Seattle-Tacoma area), and I've already gone through all their inventory, which leaves me with very few options except these boards and Ebay.

WinPitcher · June 1, 2008 2:41AM

Buy already graded and crack em out. many times you can get nice 6's that way cheap.

I did that when buying hi numbers for the 66 baseball set.

Steve

dizzle · June 1, 2008 2:58AM

<< 

<< I did a lot of mine at shows >>

Problem is that I live in a city, Seattle, where there are virtually no shows (three decent ones a year) and no stores (less than five in the whole Seattle-Tacoma area), and I've already gone through all their inventory, which leaves me with very few options except these boards and Ebay. >>

Yeah, tell me about it I'm in Aberdeen a little bit south from you. No shows or shops here..

Machodoc · June 1, 2008 4:30AM

I've been extensively upgrading my 1950's and 1960's raw sets by buying PSA 6's and 7's and cracking them out.

proofer2 · June 1, 2008 6:33AM

I have a question and this is not meant to be facetious in any way. Why would you buy a graded card and crack it out?

1) You have a natural protector for the card and
2) The value of the card in its graded case will always be >= to the value of the card out of its case (i.e. you can always crack it out, but once you crack it out, you really can't put it back in unless you pay to have it regraded)

Bosox1976 · June 1, 2008 7:04AM

<< I have a question and this is not meant to be facetious in any way. Why would you buy a graded card and crack it out? >>

Many guys are building sets in sheets and binders - many others don't like the bulkiness of slabs.

11235813 · June 1, 2008 7:26AM

Proofer,

The main reason I and many others prefer cards raw is because:

a) the printing on card slab labels detracts from the overall eye appeal of the actual card
b) it's very difficult to display groups of slabbed cards together, either as team, player, or complete sets
c) we'd rather spend our $$$ on cards rather than grading

Personally, as someone with a background in photography, I collect cards primarily for their visual appeal. Therefore I seek to display them in a way that maximizes their eye appeal, which is why I do not like graded cards.

Often I will put groups of cards together for display purposes in Ultra-Pro's 3-card, 4-card, 6-card, and 9-card holders, something which can only be done with raw cards.

If you want to see some of the raw card displays I've put together, they are on this thread:

Why I like my cards RAW.....

Since I created the original thread, I've finished another 4-card display with a 1958 Mantle, 1958 Mays, 1958 Aaron, and 1958 Williams....just haven't gotten around to taking a photo (won't fit in the scanner

)

stevek · June 1, 2008 7:43AM

<< Thoughts?

I've been having a very difficult time finding PSA 7/8 quality raw cards for the vintage sets I've been working on (1955 Bowman FB, 1956 Topps FB, 1961 Fleer BKB). What are the impressions of the other vintage raw card collectors out there?

Matt >>

Well that's a wide range of years there. I've bought a good number of lots of raw cards off ebay and have sometimes gotten some very nice raw cards from 73, 74 and 75 in the 8 variety. From 68 to 72 is much tougher. And 67 and below is virtually impossible to find raw 8 type cards without paying approximately what they would sell for slabbed anyway. For example those "vending pack fresh" type cards you often see advertised are always 7's if you're lucky and usually 6's or below because of creases or small dings.

Carew29 · June 1, 2008 8:16AM

uuuuuuuuuuuhhhhh Nope...

No problems here....

RonBurgundy · June 1, 2008 8:57AM

The answer to the initial question is, it depends. Sure, it's harder than it was 20 years ago but impossible? No. There are thousands of older collectors out there with raw cards in binders. Many of these guys don't collect anymore, which means they're not into grading or Ebay, so one day they show up at a show with 5 binders full of stuff and let (insert name of national dealer here) grape them. Then (insert national dealer here) sells said cards for 2X SMR even though it's NM at best. Ok, that's being cynical (though it does happen) but the point is, quality raw is still out there.

I would also go so far as to say in 10 years you may be better off having a nice NM raw card as opposed to a slabbed NM/MT card due to the quantity of altered material reportedly making it into holders.

Ron

fattymacs · June 1, 2008 9:57AM

I saw some very nice raw stuff at a show recently (probably high end 7's, possible 8's) the only downside was they were asking about what an 8 would go for on ebay. Just about any super-sharp looking raw card on ebay is probably a 6-7 and I bid accordingly.

TonyC · June 1, 2008 10:01AM

I'm just going to throw this idea out there: people that sell on eBay are probably on the "inside track" of the hobby and know that grading is in, therefore if they have a card they think is nice, they'll get it graded themselves before selling it. If they don't get a good grade, then they might pop it back out of the holder and try to pass it off as a mint card on eBay. I think that we could make a generalization that if most people find a really nice vintage card, they are going to get it graded, not turn it around and sell it raw.

WinPitcher · June 1, 2008 11:58AM

Tony right now (on ebay) I have a 54 Bowman Kiner card that I sent if for grading (actually I sent in around 4)
This one was the nicest yet it graded a 5! I didn't crack it out to sell as raw NMNT. I'll let the next guy do that.

BTW the card has no wrinkles or creases.

The reverse has some machine marks along a border that I think is the reason.

They actually do not distract the eye and IMO this card should (could) have been an 8.

The other 3 graded 8, 7, and 6.

A buddy of mine has 3 binders full of 50's cards many in EX/MNT/NMT+ condition.

The stuff is out there.

Steve

11235813 · June 1, 2008 3:45PM

Steve,

Are any of your friends binders FB, or are they all BB?

WinPitcher · June 1, 2008 11:02PM

All Baseball.

Steve

BobaFett72 · June 4, 2008 4:18AM

bumped;
because this is ON TOPIC

Is high-grade pre-1975 raw becoming really hard to find?

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