Options
Lurid comment from the early November Legend Market Report...
scoobydeux
Posts: 498 ✭✭
"..As much as many dealers dispise CAC, the public clearly has embraced it. "
Now this comment truly surprised me. Dealers hate the CAC?? Huh?? I thought the whole point was to squeeze PCGS money out of NGC+CAC coins at the same grade (and to squeeze more money out of properly graded PCGS coins). Wouldn't all dealers embrace this concept? And wouldn't John Q. Public prefer not to pay a premium for the little green sticker??
Now this comment truly surprised me. Dealers hate the CAC?? Huh?? I thought the whole point was to squeeze PCGS money out of NGC+CAC coins at the same grade (and to squeeze more money out of properly graded PCGS coins). Wouldn't all dealers embrace this concept? And wouldn't John Q. Public prefer not to pay a premium for the little green sticker??
"Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end."
0
Comments
<< <i>I thought the whole point was to squeeze PCGS money out of NGC+CAC coins at the same grade (and to squeeze more money out of properly graded PCGS coins). >>
I'm pretty sure I've read posts from collectors who submitted their coins to CAC, too.
<< <i>Wouldn't all dealers embrace this concept? >>
See my above comment.
<< <i>And wouldn't John Q. Public prefer not to pay a premium for the little green sticker?? >>
Buyers would prefer to not pay a premium for something? Say it ain't so.
the consumer is receiving something beyond a sticker for the premium.......whether real or perceived, assurance is what is being purchased
www.brunkauctions.com
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I was hoping for a lurid comment... >>
I'm still hoping for a lucid one.
<< <i>You thought wrong. >>
Obviously. But your terse observation hasn't helped me to understand the comment from the Legend report.
Look, I'm not trying to be personal or inflammatory here. I just don't understand why some dealers don't like the CAC, as I was under the impression that the CAC was a dealer driven phenomenon.
<< <i>>> And wouldn't John Q. Public prefer not to pay a premium for the little green sticker??>>
the consumer is receiving something beyond a sticker for the premium.......whether real or perceived, assurance is what is being purchased >>
Ok, I see this facet of the point. But what about the dealers "despising" the CAC??
<< <i>
<< <i>>> And wouldn't John Q. Public prefer not to pay a premium for the little green sticker??>>
the consumer is receiving something beyond a sticker for the premium.......whether real or perceived, assurance is what is being purchased >>
Ok, I see this facet of the point. But what about the dealers "despising" the CAC?? >>
Certain dealers have made fortunes over the years by playing the crackout game - taking PQ coins that they purchased at one level and resubmitting them until they make the next grade up. The CAC seeks to reduce the reward of this practice by paying the predominant owners of those PQ coins (collectors) more for them thus reducing the spread to the next grade while at the same time screening out many of the deceptive practices those dealers committed on coins in order to help them upgrade.
ALL I GET IS GREEN BEANS!!
Camelot
<< <i> Certain dealers have made fortunes over the years by playing the crackout game - taking PQ coins that they purchased at one level and resubmitting them until they make the next grade up. >>
Doesn't this practice only work if the uneducated collector is willing to pay for a numerical grade as opposed to the coin itself?
<< <i>The CAC seeks to reduce the reward of this practice by paying the predominant owners of those PQ coins (collectors) more for them thus reducing the spread to the next grade while at the same time screening out many of the deceptive practices those dealers committed on coins in order to help them upgrade. >>
By "deceptive practices" I assume that you mean "doctoring."
Hmmm.
Ms Sperber frequently complains about "puttied" gold in TPG holders. Now I do not know anything about gold, but are we saying that the graders at PCGS and NGC miss this type of enhancement, or are we arguing in regards to what is a market acceptable enhancement and what is not?
<< <i>You thought wrong. >>
Has the OP been introduced to any of CAC's owners ?
These informal introductions are most entertaining.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>I WANNA GOLD BEAN!!!
ALL I GET IS GREEN BEANS!! >>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>>> And wouldn't John Q. Public prefer not to pay a premium for the little green sticker??>>
the consumer is receiving something beyond a sticker for the premium.......whether real or perceived, assurance is what is being purchased >>
Ok, I see this facet of the point. But what about the dealers "despising" the CAC?? >>
Certain dealers have made fortunes over the years by playing the crackout game - taking PQ coins that they purchased at one level and resubmitting them until they make the next grade up. The CAC seeks to reduce the reward of this practice by paying the predominant owners of those PQ coins (collectors) more for them thus reducing the spread to the next grade while at the same time screening out many of the deceptive practices those dealers committed on coins in order to help them upgrade. >>
Wasn't there a dealer that PCGS cracked a coin for at a big show and then conserved the coin and it ended up grading much higher?
That being said when you have a thoroughly examined coin it will be harder to up sale by the dealer thus cutting into a harder and harder field to get into as most collectors have access to the auctions as well. How can one sell something as under graded when two (more respected then the dealer) graders are saying that it is nice but only at a certain level. Or how can you push as PQ when it failed to CAC but to maximize profit one must submit.
<< <i>
<< <i> Certain dealers have made fortunes over the years by playing the crackout game - taking PQ coins that they purchased at one level and resubmitting them until they make the next grade up. >>
Doesn't this practice only work if the uneducated collector is willing to pay for a numerical grade as opposed to the coin itself?
<< <i>The CAC seeks to reduce the reward of this practice by paying the predominant owners of those PQ coins (collectors) more for them thus reducing the spread to the next grade while at the same time screening out many of the deceptive practices those dealers committed on coins in order to help them upgrade. >>
By "deceptive practices" I assume that you mean "doctoring."
Hmmm.
Ms Sperber frequently complains about "puttied" gold in TPG holders. Now I do not know anything about gold, but are we saying that the graders at PCGS and NGC miss this type of enhancement, or are we arguing in regards to what is a market acceptable enhancement and what is not? >>
Fresh putty is VERY deceptive and hard to catch. I'm sure they do a very good job at attempting to screen it out, but it's a fact that they don't catch all of it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>>> And wouldn't John Q. Public prefer not to pay a premium for the little green sticker??>>
the consumer is receiving something beyond a sticker for the premium.......whether real or perceived, assurance is what is being purchased >>
Ok, I see this facet of the point. But what about the dealers "despising" the CAC?? >>
Certain dealers have made fortunes over the years by playing the crackout game - taking PQ coins that they purchased at one level and resubmitting them until they make the next grade up. The CAC seeks to reduce the reward of this practice by paying the predominant owners of those PQ coins (collectors) more for them thus reducing the spread to the next grade while at the same time screening out many of the deceptive practices those dealers committed on coins in order to help them upgrade. >>
Wasn't there a dealer that PCGS cracked a coin for at a big show and then conserved the coin and it ended up grading much higher? >>
The "Magic Felt Pad" story? If I recall correctly, that one is still shrouded in mystery.
<< <i>the magic felt pad coin didn't upgrade - it just went from a filmy coin to a decent coin. >>
So, it upgraded in price?
Many dealers have also embraced CAC, me included.
I would like to share something though John Q. Public may not truly understand by example. A couple of months ago I sent in a relatively large group of coins for review by CAC, some for clients and many out of inventory. I had already priced these coins in my inventory before I sent them in to CAC. My inventory pieces totaled 61 pieces and 42 of them received a Green Sticker. Most dealers price their material based upon the price they have to pay for a coin, along with other factors such as attractive toning, strong for the grade, better variety, etc. So they were already priced upon my purchasing them before I sent them in and most dealers I know have their coins priced once they buy the piece and place it into their inventory system.
Of that group sent in there were probably about 10 coins or so I "hoped" might sticker but didn't expect too. They didn't!
The rest did pretty well for the most part. Once I got them back I took another look for education purposes for myself and to see if I felt I had underpriced or overpriced the coin. Of those that didn't sticker, I adjusted the price downward on probably half the coins, of those that did sticker I increased the price slightly on 3 pieces of the 42. Thus I had already priced these accordingly to what I felt about the coin prior to CAC and the results of that submission caused me to decrease prices on more coins then were increased. A dealer is going to price a premium coin with a higher price right away upon acquisition.
So what then is getting a CAC sticker all about then if we as dealers don't push up the prices crazy to collectors?
It is simply a well respected third party, trying to separate the better coins within a grade from the common or just making it coins. And that third party review is independent of me, the dealer who is expected to say all his coins are PQ for the grade.
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
"Question your assumptions."
"Intelligence is an evolutionary adaptation."
-John
roadrunner
<< <i>CAC is a net good for the hobby in our opinion. Collectors vote with the pocketbooks, and CAC coins have been consistently realizing more money in our auctions. >>
I beg to differ. Services of this type might be good for the investor/financial speculation portion of what modern numismatics has become, but has little to do with the actual "hobby" of coin collecting. I'd even go so far as to ask for a separate forum for coin investment and speculation on these boards where coin investors could talk to each other about the nuances of their newest financial venture.
The actual hobby as we traditionally knew it dealt with collecting for enjoyment, historical education, etc.. What we've morphed into now is a world of speculators looking for a return and money being made by telling these people that what they're going to buy is a good investment based on a set of standards that will also be used to tell the next buyer that they're "investing" in a commodity that is marketable for investment purposes. As far as I'm concerned we shouldn't get the two groups mixed up - there are collectors and there are investors. We're really not furthering numismatics as a "hobby" that can be enjoyed by the masses when most of the effort put forth by influential people involved is spent trying to figure out how to preserve the investment/growth of people who view these coins as vehicles to invest money in and little else. Furthering the impression that coin investment is the future of numismatics while minimalizing the effrts of those that collect "widgets" (not my term), will only guarantee that the actual hobby will turn into a passtime enjoyed by a few 80+ year old men once coin investment reaches it's zenith and another commodity for specualtion takes it's place.
Just my opinion - yours may differ depending on how you view the "hobby". Flame on.
<< <i>
<< <i>CAC is a net good for the hobby in our opinion. Collectors vote with the pocketbooks, and CAC coins have been consistently realizing more money in our auctions. >>
I beg to differ. Services of this type might be good for the investor/financial speculation portion of what modern numismatics has become, but has little to do with the actual "hobby" of coin collecting. I'd even go so far as to ask for a separate forum for coin investment and speculation on these boards where coin investors could talk to each other about the nuances of their newest financial venture.
The actual hobby as we traditionally knew it dealt with collecting for enjoyment, historical education, etc.. What we've morphed into now is a world of speculators looking for a return and money being made by telling these people that what they're going to buy is a good investment based on a set of standards that will also be used to tell the next buyer that they're "investing" in a commodity that is marketable for investment purposes. As far as I'm concerned we shouldn't get the two groups mixed up - there are collectors and there are investors. We're really not furthering numismatics as a "hobby" that can be enjoyed by the masses when most of the effort put forth by influential people involved is spent trying to figure out how to preserve the investment/growth of people who view these coins as vehicles to invest money in and little else. Furthering the impression that coin investment is the future of numismatics while minimalizing the effrts of those that collect "widgets" (not my term), will only guarantee that the actual hobby will turn into a passtime enjoyed by a few 80+ year old men once coin investment reaches it's zenith and another commodity for specualtion takes it's place.
Just my opinion - yours may differ depending on how you view the "hobby". Flame on. >>
Couldn't the sticker be justifiable by the collectors too? I mean come on how else are we going to justify to the wives how much we spend, the CAC just says, I'm worth it.
Was that done in Las Vegas? Public embraces were once banned from the cinema....
Some dealers who don't like CAC remind me of others who belittle the entire concept of the TPGs (NGC and PCGS) in that they state that they or others do not need outside help to determine what is authentic, attractive, original and so on. Some of these folks might actually be right. However, the vast majority of collectors, dealers and those in between definitely need some level of expert support in at least one or two niche areas. Other dealers may believe that CAC reduces their own voice or influence in the market and might take special exception to having their non-CAC inventory questioned even though the majority of those coins were likely never inspected by CAC. The latter portion of that is a quite valid concern and could serve to reduce liquidity, if not price. Additionally, there are those who sell coins that are typically maxed out or that have some otherwise silent net grading incorporated in the stated grade. This last pool of dealers would appear to have the most to lose by a general embrace of CAC as a valuable market tool since their inventory would suffer the most by the absence of the sticker.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>
<< <i>CAC is a net good for the hobby in our opinion. Collectors vote with the pocketbooks, and CAC coins have been consistently realizing more money in our auctions. >>
I beg to differ. Services of this type might be good for the investor/financial speculation portion of what modern numismatics has become, but has little to do with the actual "hobby" of coin collecting. I'd even go so far as to ask for a separate forum for coin investment and speculation on these boards where coin investors could talk to each other about the nuances of their newest financial venture.
The actual hobby as we traditionally knew it dealt with collecting for enjoyment, historical education, etc.. What we've morphed into now is a world of speculators looking for a return and money being made by telling these people that what they're going to buy is a good investment based on a set of standards that will also be used to tell the next buyer that they're "investing" in a commodity that is marketable for investment purposes. As far as I'm concerned we shouldn't get the two groups mixed up - there are collectors and there are investors. We're really not furthering numismatics as a "hobby" that can be enjoyed by the masses when most of the effort put forth by influential people involved is spent trying to figure out how to preserve the investment/growth of people who view these coins as vehicles to invest money in and little else. Furthering the impression that coin investment is the future of numismatics while minimalizing the effrts of those that collect "widgets" (not my term), will only guarantee that the actual hobby will turn into a pastime enjoyed by a few 80+ year old men once coin investment reaches it's zenith and another commodity for specualtion takes it's place.
Just my opinion - yours may differ depending on how you view the "hobby". Flame on. >>
I'm not sure I see the correlation between CAC and investors versus hobbyists. One of the most eye-opening realities of our starting DGS (Dominion Grading) was the reality check that many collectors don't realize they have cleaned, or otherwise damaged coins. We see a large percentage of problem coins to original coins and in most cases it is clear that the submitters don't realize it. I think the same is true with slabbed coins and CAC feels strongly about that. If this were purely about "investment" grade (i.e. quality in the holder is irrelevant), CAC would have set up shop as a 2-way sight-unseen marketmaker of slabbed P/N coins. The problem with that philosophy is that too many coins in holders don't make the grade for fussy collectors, and that these coins would come back to haunt them in the long term.
Hence the sticker of approval concept.
At least that's the way I interpret the CAC philosophy. Furthermore, it's collectors that we deal with at DLRC, and it's the collectors that appreciate the added measure of confidence. So, as a dealer who makes a living putting a large percentage of my resources into inventory, I want to buy coins that I am confident will resell quickly. Hence the attraction to the sticker. I will buy any coin that I deal a good value for resale, CAC or otherwise, but so far we're seeing added value there. (One caveat: just like anything, don't overpay for the CAC sticker. A good coin is a good coin and the sticker doesn't necessarily add value -- just confidence. It's up to teh consumer to measure the value of that, especially in CAC's early stages.)
FYI, I have 0% ownership stake in CAC, so all this is simply market-related observance on my part.
One point before I shut up...Do you think it good for the hobby (not investment, but the hobby of coin collecting) to create an atmosphere or ideal where collectors have been trained to believe that one must spend $50.00 per coin (or more) to ensure that an addition to their collection is up to snuff...especially when there are conflicting views, many times coming from the same people, that A-coins with the CAC sticker should command a premium, and B-CAC is a service, but you shouldn't neccesarily pay extra for a coin with a CAC sticker? Of course, I represent the "widget" collector with my views - but I'd venture that the majority of what makes up the "hobby" are widget collectors.
Now if you're buying a $100,000 coin that spread might be greater because of the risk mitigation. But CAC is a sight-unseen buyer on many expensive coins...and you might just call them and ask what they'd pay for such a coin and use that to determine the market spread...
Hope this helps...
<< <i>..and you might just call them and ask what they'd pay for such a coin and use that to determine the market spread...
<< <i>
DL's attempt to flood John Albanese's phone lines, Were on to you Grrrrrr.....
<< <i>I see your point about the buyer confidence, but we might have a difference of opinion as far as what a collector is.
One point before I shut up...Do you think it good for the hobby (not investment, but the hobby of coin collecting) to create an atmosphere or ideal where collectors have been trained to believe that one must spend $50.00 per coin (or more) to ensure that an addition to their collection is up to snuff...especially when there are conflicting views, many times coming from the same people, that A-coins with the CAC sticker should command a premium, and B-CAC is a service, but you shouldn't neccesarily pay extra for a coin with a CAC sticker? Of course, I represent the "widget" collector with my views - but I'd venture that the majority of what makes up the "hobby" are widget collectors. >>
You're questioning the entire concept pf TPG here. This is an old debate but the fact is that standardized grading has been reponsible for the modern "revolution" in coin collecting. It's provided a much needed degree of faith that a coin won;'t be debated back and forth between dealers as being AU/MS/BU/XF, whatever. Whe I was a kid I had NO IDEA what I ws buying becuase you had to trust the dealer. Now, with a pretty damn good grading system in place coins are a robust trade with prices appreciating much more because of the standardization.
Now...enter the "evil force". That's the dealers who are willing to doctor coins, buy better coins for the grade and crack them out for upgrades and whatever other games they can invent. This got so bad that themarket became inundated with crappy coins once the true stuff had been bought by collectors. Along came CAC..with a mission to ferret out doctired coins and as someone pointed out, to pay UP fior the better coins for the grade, which made it more difficult for crack-out artists to continually submit coins for upgrades. And the pressure that these dealers seemingly put on the graders could have even had some effect on gradeflation, but I'm not going there. CAC has made life very difficult for the "players". So what if you pay another $10 per coin to get them stickered. You'll get two things for the money; a 99% assurance that the coin is original and not tampered with and second, MORE money if you want to sell it. That's a certainty. I've sold numerous coins to CAC for a solid premium over what I likely would have gotten elsewhere, and I've sold CAC coins in auctions for significant premiums over what comparably graded coins went for.
Now someone please post something LURID. I need cheap thrills.
Yes, very clear...lucid and clear...
Here's a pictorial summary...
<< <i>And some collectors and dealers like the CAC because it's one more avenue to fight rampant doctoring of coins. >>
Maybe so, maybe not. Why all the secrecy involved? Maybe if they would tell us about some, minds could be changed.
<< <i>OK, so I think it's all clear now: some collectors like the CAC becasue they seek the extra confidence factor, other collectors despise the CAC becasue they do not seek the extra confidence factor; some dealers like the CAC becasue they feel it increases thier income, while others despise the CAC becasue they feel it decreases their income.
Yes, very clear...lucid and clear...
Here's a pictorial summary...
Is that a coin doctor in the vice?
<< <i>Is that a coin doctor in the vice?
No here's the doc at work...
<< <i>OK, so I think it's all clear now: some collectors like the CAC becasue they seek the extra confidence factor, other collectors despise the CAC becasue they do not seek the extra confidence factor; some dealers like the CAC becasue they feel it increases thier income, while others despise the CAC becasue they feel it decreases their income.
Yes, very clear...lucid and clear...
Here's a pictorial summary... >>
Now you're not doing your work and THINKING. You've summed up the debate but you haven't extrapolated anything. If YOU had a collection would you rather have all your coins appoved by CAC or not? Do you feel that all your coins are free of putty, AT, bad dipping or other alterations? Have you watched the same grade coin sell with and without CAC certification. (look at 1922 MS65 Saints as a starting point) You seem to want to promote the confusion rather than show that you can draw conclusions.
I was in that position when CAC started. I had an opinion then. I haveone now. They were 100% opposite.
"Because something is happening here
But you don't know what it is
Do you, Mister Jones?"
Agree with DLRC and others that CAC offers an extra opinion at a reasonable cost.
I put the following info in my estate planner:
"CAC Stickers (shaped like a bean/football, applied to the front of the slab): These stickers indicate the coin has been reviewed by another numismatic professional – typically John Albanese – and that the coin is solid/premium for the grade. Do not remove this sticker, as its presence adds to the value of the coin."
This is another benefit of CAC, IMO: Additional information/confidence for my heirs. They may now disposition my collection with the added 'value' of my having submitted the coins for CAC approval.
<< <i>
<< <i>I see your point about the buyer confidence, but we might have a difference of opinion as far as what a collector is.
One point before I shut up...Do you think it good for the hobby (not investment, but the hobby of coin collecting) to create an atmosphere or ideal where collectors have been trained to believe that one must spend $50.00 per coin (or more) to ensure that an addition to their collection is up to snuff...especially when there are conflicting views, many times coming from the same people, that A-coins with the CAC sticker should command a premium, and B-CAC is a service, but you shouldn't neccesarily pay extra for a coin with a CAC sticker? Of course, I represent the "widget" collector with my views - but I'd venture that the majority of what makes up the "hobby" are widget collectors. >>
You're questioning the entire concept pf TPG here. This is an old debate but the fact is that standardized grading has been reponsible for the modern "revolution" in coin collecting. It's provided a much needed degree of faith that a coin won;'t be debated back and forth between dealers as being AU/MS/BU/XF, whatever. Whe I was a kid I had NO IDEA what I ws buying becuase you had to trust the dealer. Now, with a pretty damn good grading system in place coins are a robust trade with prices appreciating much more because of the standardization.
Now...enter the "evil force". That's the dealers who are willing to doctor coins, buy better coins for the grade and crack them out for upgrades and whatever other games they can invent. This got so bad that themarket became inundated with crappy coins once the true stuff had been bought by collectors. Along came CAC..with a mission to ferret out doctired coins and as someone pointed out, to pay UP fior the better coins for the grade, which made it more difficult for crack-out artists to continually submit coins for upgrades. And the pressure that these dealers seemingly put on the graders could have even had some effect on gradeflation, but I'm not going there. CAC has made life very difficult for the "players". So what if you pay another $10 per coin to get them stickered. You'll get two things for the money; a 99% assurance that the coin is original and not tampered with and second, MORE money if you want to sell it. That's a certainty. I've sold numerous coins to CAC for a solid premium over what I likely would have gotten elsewhere, and I've sold CAC coins in auctions for significant premiums over what comparably graded coins went for.
Now someone please post something LURID. I need cheap thrills.
Look how many NEW NGC holders contain rare , low pop coins,,they look like new crackouts..which CAC helps collectors if some coins limp in for the grade
By the way, the Three Stooges were my favorite when I was growing up!
Maybe there is a coin in Curly's mouth and they want to crack his head to get at the coin?
<< <i>Now...enter the "evil force". That's the dealers who are willing to doctor coins, buy better coins for the grade and crack them out for upgrades and whatever other games they can invent. This got so bad that themarket became inundated with crappy coins once the true stuff had been bought by collectors. Along came CAC..with a mission to ferret out doctired coins and as someone pointed out, to pay UP fior the better coins for the grade, which made it more difficult for crack-out artists to continually submit coins for upgrades. And the pressure that these dealers seemingly put on the graders could have even had some effect on gradeflation, but I'm not going there. CAC has made life very difficult for the "players". So what if you pay another $10 per coin to get them stickered. You'll get two things for the money; a 99% assurance that the coin is original and not tampered with and second, MORE money if you want to sell it. That's a certainty. I've sold numerous coins to CAC for a solid premium over what I likely would have gotten elsewhere, and I've sold CAC coins in auctions for significant premiums over what comparably graded coins went for. >>
OK, I'm sick of debating this topic already, but you DO NOT get a 99% assurance that a coin is original when it sports a sticker.
I have seen dozens of dipped coins that received the "seal of approval".
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
SG, I fully concede this point. My apologies for slipping into the humor zone
You seem to want to promote the confusion rather than show that you can draw conclusions
I had no intent of promoting confusion. I was merely amused by the vast spectrum of opinions and wanted to succintly summarize those offered in the thread. The point that I've extrapolated is that one's perspective regarding the CAC very much depends on one's vantage point.
If YOU had a collection would you rather have all your coins appoved by CAC or not? Do you feel that all your coins are free of putty, AT, bad dipping or other alterations? Have you watched the same grade coin sell with and without CAC certification. (look at 1922 MS65 Saints as a starting point).
In truth, this thread meandered away from my original point, which concerned my suprise that some dealers "despise" the CAC. As originally stated, I thought that the CAC was primarily a dealer driven phenomema with collateral effects to the collector I really had no intent of starting a "is the CAC good for the hobby?" discussion.
But as long as we've gone there, let me offer you these thoughts:
As a collector with coins in possession, yes, I would prefer that they be CAC stickered if they do bring more money. Obviously. Whether they are worth more money is debatable, and based purely on the public's perception, not necessarily on reality. This is akin to the Stock Market going up for no appaernt reason--if there is no basis to support the increase, then what point is there in arguing, if there is, in fact an increase?
Alternatively, as a collector purchasing a coin, yes, I'd like a CAC, but no, I don't want to pay a stupid premium for it.
Who says that the CAC is the final "right" opinion and that those of the graders at PCGS/NGC were wrong? Is it not possible that both are right, or both are wrong? Furthermore, how can we assume that any coin without a sticker is not deserving of one? It is possible that it was never submitted, or it could have been sent in 5 times and rejected. Or a stickered coin could have beeb sent in 10 times and stickered on the 11th. How would you know? Or does it even matter?
Just food for thought...and here's more doctoring for you...(apologies in advance)...
<< <i>CAC coins have been consistently realizing more money in our auctions >>
Question then - for coins above a certain threshold - would it make sense for you as an auctioneer to send the coins to CAC and pay the $10 (I would send coins to CAC myself, but you have to go through a dealer is my understanding).
As a collector (not an investor/speculator - I have sold exactly zero of the coins I have bought) I like CAC. I buy most coins over the internet, relying on pictures and return policies. When it comes to auction I have bid on a few CAC coins, and only once did I get the coin in hand and decide that I felt I overpaid for. There was a spot on the coin I missed, it's in the picture but it was subtle. Every other CAC coin I have been happy with. I have been happy with most of the non-CAC coins I have bought but the CAC coins have a better success ratio.
-Fred
Successful BST (me as buyer) with: Collectorcoins, PipestonePete, JasonRiffeRareCoins
On the flip side would you expect to pay less for a coin that you knew didn't sticker?
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......