1884-S morgan Ngc-63 on E-bay(scam ?)

TennesseeDave · March 22, 2007 10:28PM

Link to Ngc 63 84-S scam IMO

This seller has a feedback of 2 and says he had it graded 63 by Ngc and wasn't happy so he cracked it out and now doesn't have time to
resubmit,but he will not show the certification # or grade so Ngc wont know Blah,blah,blah...........What do you think?

vega1 · March 22, 2007 10:55PM

I don't know if its a scam, but the story is so weak as to be laughable. Why would anyone in their right mind crack out a 63 coin before selling it because they don't have the time to resubmit themselves? Thats just stupid. I would treat the coin as if it were raw and act accordingly (for me that would mean run away).

BobaFett72 · March 22, 2007 11:07PM

gotta love this auction description, a true "winner"

I SENT THIS COIN TO N.G.C. AND HAD THE COIN CERTIFIED MS 63. I BELIEVE THE COIN SHOULD HAVE GRADED A MS 65. ALSO IT SHOULD HAVE GRADED SEMI PROOF LIKE OR PROOF LIKE SOMEWHERE. i AM SO DIS APOINTED I AM BREAKING IT OUT OF THE HOLDER. I HAVE TAKEN A PICTURE OF IT IN THE HOLDER AND NOW ONE FOR YOU OUT OF THE HOLDER AS IT IS BEING DONE. I DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO SEND THE COIN BACK IN FOR RE-GRADEING AS I NEED THE MONEY NOW. I GAUARANTEE THIS COIN IN THE PICTURE IS THE ONE YOU ARE GOING TO RECIEVE AND I WILL ALSO SEND THE HOLDER ONLY. THAT THE COIN CAME BACK FROM BY N.G.C. I WILL GICE A MONEY BACK GUARANTEE ON THIS COIN IF IT IS NOT THE COIN I AM SHOWING IN THIS PICTURE. IT IS THE BEST I HAVE EVER SEEN. I THOUGHT THE COIN WAS WORTH $75,000 MINIMUM. NOW I NEED THE MONEY AND HAVE RAN OUT OF TIME. YOU SEND THE COIN IN AND HAVE IT GRADED. THE MONEY BACK GUARANTEE IS ONLY FOR INSPECTION OF THE COIN. IF I WANTED TO WAIT FOR A GRADE I WOULD SEND IT IN MYSELF AGAIN. THIS IS UP TO YOU. I KNOW YOU WILL NOT SEE A BETTER COIN. EVER! 1884-S $200,000. IF I WAS A BIG NAMED DEALER I KNOW IT WOULD BRING THE GRADE. PAY A FAIR PRICE AND MAKE SOME MONEY. THE COIN SHOULD BRING IN THE $40,000.00 TO $50,000 HERE ON E BAY. YOU WILL MAKE $100,00 ON THIS COIN IF YOU KEEP TRING TO SUBMITT AND GET THE GRADE.

You are bidding on a 1884-S $1.00 MORGAN SILVER DOLLAR in beautiful UNCIRCULATEDTIFIED MINT STATE CERTIFIED 63 BY N.G.C. REMEMBER I AM AND HAVE BROKE THIS COIN OUT OF THE HOLDER. I WAS GOING TO REGRADE BUT DO NOT HAVE THE TIME. I AM SENDING THE HOLDER WITH THE COIN. I AM NOT SENDING ANY SERIAL NUMBER FROM GRADING BECAUSE I DO NOT WANT N.G.C. TO KNOW I HAVE BROKE THE COIN OUT AND WAS PLANNING TO RESUBMITT. I WILL SEND THE HOLDER WITH THE TYPED OUT PART FROM N.G.C.. NOTHING ELSE. NO GRADE AND NO SERIAL NUMBER. I WILL SEND THE DATE AND EVERYTHING ELSE. YOU CAN TELL BY THE PICTURE THAT THIS COIN IS BY FAR THE BEST ONE YOU WILL EVER SEE! UP GRADEABLE condition...with full BLAST WHITE SILVER mint luster and exceptional details AND PROOF LIKE FINISH. BEAUTIFUL........MS63 SEMI PROOF LIKE PLUS!!. THIS IS A NEW CAMERA I AM USEING AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THE PICTURE. THIS COIN IS WHITE W/ CARTWHEEL LUSTER!

I WILL BE OFFERING MY PERSONAL COLLECTION FOR SALE OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS UNTIL EVERYTHING IS GONE. THIS IS THE FIRST OF MANY RARE GOLD, SILVER COPPER AND OTHER UNITED STATES TYPE COINS I WILL BE OFFERING. ALL MY COINS ARE IN HIGH GRADE AND YOU WILL NEEDE TO ADD ME TO YOUR FAVORITES SO YOU DO NOT MISS THIS RARE COLLECTION I HAVE BEEN PUTTING TOGETHER FOR THE PAST 40 ( OR MORE AND REALLY DO NOT CARE TO THINK ABOUT) YEARS. I AM VERY ILL AND HAVE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH CANCER LAST WEEK AND NEED TO SELL MY ESTATE BEFORE IT IS TO LATE AND I AM TO WEAK TO DO IT. I WANT TO CONVERT MY COLLECTION TO CASH SO THAT THE FAMILY DOES NOT HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE ORDEAL OF TRYING TO GET THE HIGHEST BID AND MABEY GET COINS TAKEN FROM THEM AT BOTTOM PRICES. I ALSO NEED MONEY FOR MY MEDICAL EXPENSES THAT ARE ALREADY IN THE 6 FIGURE RANGE AND MY INSURANCE IS COVERING VERY LIITLE. PLEASE LOOK AT ALL MY COINS I WILL BE LISTING AND BELIEVE ME I PAID BIG MONEY FOR MY COINS AND BOUGHT ONLY FROM THE MOST RESPECTED COIN DEALERS IN THE BUSINESS. ALL AUCTIONS START AT .99 AND THAT WILL GIVE YOU THE CHANCE TO PAY WHAT THE COIN IS WORTH BASED ON THE GRADE YOU BELIEVE IT IS. YOU GRADE THE COIN THIS IS UP TO YOU. I WILL GIVE YOU THE GRADE AS I PAID AND WHAT WAS TOLD ME. ANY OTHER INFORMATION I HAVE WRITTEN DOWN I WILL GIVE AS WELL THAT I HAVE SO YOU CAN MAKE AN EDUCATED BUY. THANKS FOR LOOKING AND PLEASE TRY AND PAY MARKET VALUE AS I AM IN REAL NEED OF THE MONEY FOR MY BILLS. THANKS AGAIN AND I REALLY WISH I DID NOT HAVE TO SELL THIS FINE COLLECTION THAT HAS NOT BEEN OUT OF THE BANK BOX IN MANY, MANY YEARS. GOD BLESS AND GOOD LUCK!

These classic U.S. SILVER MORGAN DOLLARS were minted from 1878 to 1921 and make a beautiful addition to any coin collection. Featuring the world famous portrait of Miss Liberty on the obverse and the American Eagle on the reverse, these are beautiful, heirloom-quality works of art that you will be proud to add to your collection.

cho10 · March 22, 2007 11:22PM

This guy is a real B.S. artist.
The 1884-S is one of the key Morgan dollars in Mint State.
There are very few examples that have been certified by PCGS, NGC, ANACS or IGC as unflawed Mint State (MS60 or higher).
There are tons of purported Mint State coins slabbed by the third, fourth or fifth tier Slabbing Services.
You'll often see EBay promotional Ads indicating $375,000 in mint state and other such nonsensical tag lines.
Anyboby that falls for a ploy like this will only have him/herself to blame.
Just the statement "i AM SO DIS APOINTED I AM BREAKING IT OUT OF THE HOLDER" says enough.
This guy claims he borke out a $30/40 K-plus coin from an NGC holder because he was disappointed?????
Sounds like using a hammer and an anvil to punish one's private parts.

TorinoCobra71 · March 22, 2007 11:41PM

Nice that the grading label is folded so that you cant see the grade or serial number......

TorinoCobra71

Darkmane · March 22, 2007 11:44PM

Note: he purposely hides the grade on the coin from the NGC holder

edit: beat me by mere seconds

sweetwilliet · March 23, 2007 12:17AM

Can someone here who is really savvy use the barcode to figure out the serial number, and then figure out the grade from that?

123cents · March 23, 2007 12:28AM

Looks like a con artist to me.

VTCoins · March 23, 2007 12:34AM

<< Can someone here who is really savvy use the barcode to figure out the serial number, and then figure out the grade from that? >>

You beat me to it!

GoldenEyeNumismatics · March 23, 2007 1:41AM

what a cheesy scam.

Im surprised that people are falling for it!

ziggy29 · March 23, 2007 2:02AM

Like someone's going to CRACK OUT an '84-S graded MS-63 by one of the majors.

On a bad day, that comes back as a 61 or even a 58, and you're screwed royally.

[Edit to add: The seller responds in a question about why they would crack out this coin: "I was going to resubmit the coin for a higher grade and now do not have the time. I need the money." If you thought it would go 64, you could easily take out a ripoff high-interest rate loan for the money if you were desperate, wait for this to come back 64 and payoff the loan with thousands to spare. Totally fails the smell test.]

ziggy29 · March 23, 2007 2:11AM

I just asked if they would also send the old crumpled NGC label with the coin to verify it was a 63. I'm pretty sure it will have been "thrown away," though.

[And yeah, I read the details that said they wouldn't. But I want to see them squirm a bit.]

BigE2 · March 23, 2007 2:15AM

Guys handle is "sellingmycoincollection" but only has 1 coin?

ziggy29 · March 23, 2007 2:16AM

<< Guys handle is "sellingmycoincollection" but only has 1 coin? >>

"I WILL BE OFFERING MY PERSONAL COLLECTION FOR SALE OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS UNTIL EVERYTHING IS GONE." Apparently they only "need the money" from this one coin right now.

notwilight · March 23, 2007 2:18AM

I'm not sure it's a scam. This guy is either pathetic or has a scam. I wouldn't touch it.

sweetwilliet · March 23, 2007 2:44AM

MadMarty · March 23, 2007 3:22AM

I E-Mailed and asked for the cert number, I received this response.

<< I will not give you that. If I wanted to resubmitt the coin I could do it myself with that number. That is not fair especially considering the price it is at right now. I can tell you heritage is intrested. They saw it an recognized the coin they sold me and said they would be bidding. if you would like to see the email let me know >>

I guess I'm not going to be bidding!

NH484000 · March 23, 2007 3:24AM

<< I E-Mailed and asked for the cert number, I received this response.

<< I will not give you that. If I wanted to resubmitt the coin I could do it myself with that number. That is not fair especially considering the price it is at right now. I can tell you heritage is intrested. They saw it an recognized the coin they sold me and said they would be bidding. if you would like to see the email let me know >>

I guess I'm not going to be bidding!

>>

Exactly how is giving the cert. # "not fair"?

cho10 · March 23, 2007 3:48AM

He uploaded this image which does not seem to be the same coin.
Be that as it may, this one has a huge almost vertical gouge parallel to the neck starting from under Miss Liberty's chin.
I doubt that a coin like that could be considered uncirculated (unless that was done removing from the holder).

Shortgapbob · March 23, 2007 5:06AM

Can anyone make out the certification number from the bottom tips of the numbers that show on the holder?

MadMarty · March 23, 2007 6:57AM

I don't have a bar scanner, but if someone does they can scan the barcode.

cucurbit · March 23, 2007 8:06AM

I believe this might be the cert number: 2513106-001

I don't have an account at NGC, so maybe someone can look it up and see. I'm pretty sure it will say AU58.

robec · March 23, 2007 9:12AM

LeeBone · March 23, 2007 9:25AM

People like this just make me SICK!!

DRUNNER · March 23, 2007 11:59AM

Kudos to the combined forces that uncovered this despite the efforts of the scammer.

Nice work . . .

Drunner

Connecticoin · March 23, 2007 12:00PM

BUSTED!!!

pharmer · March 23, 2007 12:19PM

Well done, folks. This place rocks.

ziggy29 · March 23, 2007 12:29PM

Nicely done, all. I suspected this was probably a 58 as slabbed.

Still, this to me raises another question: Do you think this coin would grade 58 if it had an O mint mark? Or if the date was 1881-S instead of 1884-S? I regularly see far worse than this in MS holders from both NGC and PCGS. But make it a "condition rarity" date, and suddenly the "standards" are way different.

cho10 · March 23, 2007 1:09PM

<< Nicely done, all. I suspected this was probably a 58 as slabbed. Still, this to me raises another question: Do you think this coin would grade 58 if it had an O mint mark? Or if the date was 1881-S instead of 1884-S? I regularly see far worse than this in MS holders from both NGC and PCGS. But make it a "condition rarity" date, and suddenly the "standards" are way different. >>

Connecticoin · March 23, 2007 10:50PM

Well, the auction is still up with 10 hours to go, and whoever wins this will be screwed out of $2,000+. Now that the bidders IDs are hidden, no one can warn the fools bidding on this either. I guess someone can warn the ultimate winning bidder.

Connecticoin · March 23, 2007 10:51PM

Of course, maybe Scumnuker is the high bidder (no me, I do not know who scumnuker is)!!

NH484000 · March 24, 2007 12:22AM

From the Q & A on the Ebay listing-

This just keeps getting better and better!

"Q: The good folks on the PCGS US Coin Forum have proven that this was a 58, and this auction is being read by a whole lot of folks, most of whom are long time ebay coins sellers and buyers. Congrats! Mar-23-07
A: I am glad that I have so many lookers. I really do not believe thay pcgs would ever grade a coin on the internet or even give an opinion without the coin in hand. I am a certifed pcgs dealer and have known David Hall for the last30 years I knew David before P.C.G.S was even formed. Please don't send me e mails like this because you are so unbelieving that there is a 1884-s out there that does exist in high grade and I have nothing to hide. I just got an e mail from Heritahe coin and they are very intrested in the coin and will be bidding my friend. They also informed me that they would like to see the coin. I told them NO PROBLEM since it came from them to begin with many a year ago. Also I wanted you to know I am going to let everyone see your question and my answer so you are a star today and I am for real. If you have the money bid on the coin if not please keep your comments all of them false ones and all to your self.Again P.C.G.S would never commit or even open there mouth about a coin unless it is hand. If you like I will see if I can call Mr. Hall on his cell phone and get a confirmation for you. Please e mail your number and you may listen to the message. One more thing David offered me a job to work for him many yaers aga as a grader so I do believe I know what I am talking about, Jeeez. Please read your reply on my auction site under questions and know everyone else gets to see that you have been told P.C.G.S. is grading coins by a picture on the internet. I am sure people will be lined up for that. If you would like to give us any more information please do so. Thanks for the Question? I think? Was this a question?"

ziggy29 · March 24, 2007 12:24AM

For someone trying to pull a fast one, he's a firm believer in full disclosure...

slucas · March 24, 2007 1:08AM

this should be reported to eBay. It is the same as offering counterfeits in my opinion.

pharmer · March 24, 2007 1:23AM

A close look at the bids makes me go hmmm. And why would someone keep bidding so much after he posts these q&a's?

sTONER · March 24, 2007 1:38AM

ITS up to 3550.00,, Holy Cow Balls Batman,,

MORGANHUNTER2 · March 24, 2007 2:04AM

Wanna hear a funny one-

David wanted him to be a grader......

and he is a PCGS authorized dealer...

TennesseeDave · March 24, 2007 3:45AM

Great work forum members.I'm afraid it doesn't seem to matter though the bid is up to $ 14,600 with over 5 hours left.Someone is really going to be disappointed.(assuming those are actual bidders)

pharmer · March 24, 2007 3:50AM

The bidder info when you scroll over "view" on each of the top bidders is interesting.

BAJJERFAN · March 24, 2007 4:01AM

Now at $14,600

cho10 · March 24, 2007 4:03AM

The guy claims he needs the money because of various health related issues.
His 2 feedback entries are from sellers of coins:

1- March 18, 2007 - 1948-D Franklin CERTIFIED MS 65 FBL NNC for $48
2- March 17, 2007 - 1926 INDIAN HEAD $2.50 GOLD EAGLE * Old Gold * UNC for $219.08

So:

A - he needs the money yet he bought 2 coins during the past week.
B - He doesn't have time to submit for grading a coin that he claims is worth $30K or more
C - He says that the coins was graded 3 times and he now says that the NGC sticker is an older submission
D - he will let us hear David Hall say something by cell phone
E - Since when does NGC,PCGS or any other TPGS worry about coins being cracked out, Certification numbers being revelaed?
F - etc etc.

Boy does this guy have a bronze face.

The last time I looked this coin was at $14,600.
Doesn't this seem like a shill auction?
All the bidders have 50 or less feedback which is a bit strange considering the fact that this is a very important coin (so we are told).
Removing the names of bidders doesn't seem to be a very useful tactic.
I am really curious to see how this will end.

ziggy29 · March 24, 2007 4:20AM

The coinwas graded three times. You are right It was also grade ms 61 by a.n.a. and it was graded ms 63 the lat time. How about that? I will print this as well to let you know I have nothing to hide.

Except the labels that prove your claims.

coindawg1 · March 24, 2007 6:40AM

I believe there's nothing to worry about (as far as the winning bidder getting ripped off...me thinks he is aware of the situation). *wink*

ArgentumRex · March 24, 2007 6:44AM

<< I am a christian I don't lie and I have a very good reputation in business and in the community.God bless you and I hope that things get better for you in the future. I will say a prayer for you and hope that god answers it. >>

OK, now he's really grasping at straws. Russ...which page of the handbook is this from? I don't have mine handy at the moment.

ziggy29 · March 24, 2007 9:05AM

Our buddy i-like-rare-coins "wins" it for a cool $14,600...

I live only an hour and a half from San Antonio. Want me to pick it up?

pharmer · March 24, 2007 9:34AM

Well isn't that nice.

Connecticoin · March 24, 2007 12:16PM

<< Our buddy i-like-rare-coins "wins" it for a cool $14,600...

I live only an hour and a half from San Antonio. Want me to pick it up?

>>

Oh yea!! The "Coin Serpico" to the rescue again!

bestclser1 · March 24, 2007 1:54PM

.Comment retracted.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · March 24, 2007 2:16PM

holy crap, this thing is selling for way too much

bestclser1 · March 24, 2007 4:00PM

Perhaps the seller is totally legit.I congratulate the old owner.Or feel sorry for the seller.Who knows.

Connecticoin · March 25, 2007 11:09AM

<< Perhaps the seller is totally legit.I congratulate the old owner.Or feel sorry for the seller.Who knows.

>>

Huh?

1884-S morgan Ngc-63 on E-bay(scam ?)

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