Ebay no longer to allow "Replica" coins to be sold

ModCrewman · January 19, 2012 2:25AM

I just received the e-mail below from Ebay:

Dear xxxxx:

The eBay marketplace for coin collecting is vibrant. Buyers and sellers alike enjoy access to both a great selection and a highly engaged community. Customers within the Coins & Paper Money category have told us that the ability to shop and sell confidently on eBay is an important factor for them.

Based on this feedback, and after closely reviewing the coin experience on eBay, we have decided to update eBay's Stamps, currency, and coins policy to disallow replica coin listings on eBay.com, effective February 20. Any replica coin listings on eBay on February 20 will be allowed to end normally.

This update reflects standards across the coin industry and helps ensure compliance with applicable laws that require replica coins to be permanently marked with the word "copy." We also expect that this update will increase marketplace confidence by letting our community know that coin listings on eBay are authentic, so they'll receive the most positive eBay experience possible.

As always, thank you for selling on eBay.

Sincerely,
The eBay Seller Team

kiyote · January 19, 2012 2:27AM

This is huge, huge, huge, huge news!

TomB · January 19, 2012 2:28AM

I guess the only replicas and counterfeits they will allow from now on are the ones not marked with copy? Don't get me wrong, I am happy with this decision by ebay, but do not believe they will aggressively weed out obvious fakes.

BBN · January 19, 2012 2:29AM

I would have preferred them to have been in their own category and heavily policed to make sure people didn't slip them into the real coin categories. But the key here is "policing" and it's easier and cheaper to ban the product than hire people to police certain categories for something small. Either way, they would clog up a lot of searches and glad I don't have to see them. I realize I could have knocked them out of my search, but who feels like adding "-copy" and "-replica" every time you search?

pocketpiececommems · January 19, 2012 2:35AM

It's about time

Now if our own government would get on board and ban the counterfeit stuff from China!

kiyote · January 19, 2012 2:37AM

Seeing people spending between $60 and $200 for worthless "Plantation Police" replica slave badges was depressing the hell out of me. I hope those fall under that catagory too. It's been going on for more than a decade.

edix2001 · January 19, 2012 2:38AM

Would this disallow the auction of Gallery Mint Museum historical replicas?

AUandAG · January 19, 2012 2:40AM

I think it just puts unmarked "replicas" back in the regular categories. If it is not marked then it's back
to business as it was before there was a replica category. We'll see.

bob

WaterSport · January 19, 2012 2:45AM

Long over do. I resent there being a large market place for people to keep making this crap to sell that will only lead to someones misfortune down the road.

WS

Halfsense · January 19, 2012 2:48AM

FYI, Coin World posted this brief story this morning:

Ban on sales of replicas starts on eBay Feb. 20

And, the Professional Numismatists Guild issued this information to its members at about the same time this morning:

eBay and PNG Working Together

-donn-

GRANDAM · January 19, 2012 2:52AM

Yep,,, that is just what we need,,,,,,,,,

more people who think that they have to protect everyone from themselves,,,,,,,,,

GrandAm

AUandAG · January 19, 2012 2:52AM

They did not ask for solutions and this is what we got. Canada did it right.
I sent this to my rep, as if it will have any impact.

Although your intentions were in the right place, this will backfire. Instead of marking fakes with COPY
sellers will just leave them unmarked and sell them in the regular categories (as was previous to the
addition of the replica category). Copies are not being manufactured in the USA, Canada, Germany,
etc. They are at present, only being manufactured in China. Ban coin sellers from China. Implement
a review policy for those few legitimate Chinese Sellers that have coin shops and follow laws. Let there
be a method where they can apply for entrance into the Ebay community to sell. If they violate the law
then they can again be banned.

bob

jt88 · January 19, 2012 2:55AM

They should have done that long time ago.

derryb · January 19, 2012 2:58AM

I hope it will include the bullion "coins" that are meant to deceive others into thinking they are actual mint issued bullion coins.

TwoKopeiki · January 19, 2012 2:59AM

<< I guess the only replicas and counterfeits they will allow from now on are the ones not marked with copy? Don't get me wrong, I am happy with this decision by ebay, but do not believe they will aggressively weed out obvious fakes. >>

THIS

I don't see a benefit from this change. The problem with regards to buyer confidence is not around the listings marked as replica or copy, it's with 99% of all the other counterfeits being listed as authentic. This will negatively impact people who are "trying to do the right thing" by selling marked copies, as well as sellers of contemporary counterfeits that are properly describing the items they're selling.

messydesk · January 19, 2012 3:05AM

<< Would this disallow the auction of Gallery Mint Museum historical replicas? >>

I'm trying to parse what they mean by their e-mail. They're disallowing replicas, but want to reflect the "standards across the coin industry" (can they cite these standards?) and ensure compliance with laws requiring the "COPY" stamp on replicas. Disallowing sales of appropriately marked coins like the GMM repros doesn't accomplish that. "Tribute proofs" are worthless nuisances, but they also either say "COPY" or disclaim being actual coins by having design variations without a face value. Chinese counterfeits don't follow the laws, they don't admit to being fakes, and they're only canceled when someone brings them to eBay's attention, not before. This won't change. It would seem to me that providing this "most positive eBay experience" for members simply means they're enacting a policy they feel will further insulate them from any liability when fakes continue to be sold.

Bochiman · January 19, 2012 3:07AM

<< I hope it will include the bullion "coins" that are meant to deceive others into thinking they are actual mint issued bullion coins. >>

First thing I thought too

johnrav · January 19, 2012 3:42AM

<< 

<< I guess the only replicas and counterfeits they will allow from now on are the ones not marked with copy? Don't get me wrong, I am happy with this decision by ebay, but do not believe they will aggressively weed out obvious fakes. >>

THIS

I don't see a benefit from this change. The problem with regards to buyer confidence is not around the listings marked as replica or copy, it's with 99% of all the other counterfeits being listed as authentic. This will negatively impact people who are "trying to do the right thing" by selling marked copies, as well as sellers of contemporary counterfeits that are properly describing the items they're selling. >>

if copy's are outlawed, only outlaws will have copy's, right! lol

and I agree, this pushes these sellers to not use the word copy or replica in the listings, that is all.

airplanenut · January 19, 2012 3:49AM

<< I would have preferred them to have been in their own category and heavily policed to make sure people didn't slip them into the real coin categories. >>

That category has existed for years.

Coins101 · January 19, 2012 3:54AM

<< This is huge, huge, huge, huge news! >>

Greeniejr · January 19, 2012 3:54AM

This is part of a two part process that eBay is working on with the secret service. Step 1 is this ban. That will stop allowing people to sell the replica's, gain contacts to sell this material into the country. The Chinese counterfeiters are listing them on eBay with the replica stamp then trying to convince the buyers to get more without the words replica and to distribute them. Once they do this, they will increase oversight over all coins enlisting the help of experts. The secret service is taking the lead on this which is about the best we can ask for.

AUandAG · January 19, 2012 4:00AM

<< This is part of a two part process that eBay is working on with the secret service. Step 1 is this ban. That will stop allowing people to sell the replica's, gain contacts to sell this material into the country. The Chinese counterfeiters are listing them on eBay with the replica stamp then trying to convince the buyers to get more without the words replica and to distribute them. Once they do this, they will increase oversight over all coins enlisting the help of experts. The secret service is taking the lead on this which is about the best we can ask for. >>

And your source for this bombshell?

bob

shorecoll · January 19, 2012 4:10AM

If true, this is OK, but I would think it better for eBay to fund an effort by the USSS to target and prosecute distributors. A few "innocent" resellers, who disavow any knowledge of these activities, landing 20-year federal counterfeiting sentences would be a good start. Do this and have eBay publicize it, with press releases and perp walks, and this will do more to slow the trend than this new policy.

LanceNewmanOCC · January 19, 2012 4:12AM

.
i'm so happy i'm speechless
.
c'mon US government, lets keep the ball rolling!
.

DavidLawrence · January 19, 2012 4:12AM

This new policy is designed to draw a clear line in the sand that eBay sellers cannot offer copies of coins (or copies of any coin-related exonumia like tokens, badges, etc) for legitimate sale on the site. We all know that counterfeits are offered for sale on eBay but these have been and always will be illegal, so that's not what at issue here.

What is at issue is that sellers of the so-called copies were often offering counterfeits with the word "COPY" stamped on it, but delivering coins without the stamp. There was no real way to police this on the eBay side and eBay came to the PNG (Bob Brueggeman, the Board and the membership) for advice on the issue. They heard -- in no uncertain terms -- from all of us that copies must be removed from the site as a first step to cleaning up the eBay marketplace. And, to their credit, eBay has responded very quickly and decisively. All of these will no longer be sell-able on the site as of Feb 20.

Does this solve all the problems on eBay of people selling counterfeits? Of course not. But this is just the first step that eBay is taking and they have assured us (to me, personally) that more steps will be taken next. They are looking into ways to increase community policing because it takes a village to keep an eye on all of these listings and stay one step ahead of the counterfeiters.

I, for one, am extremely encouraged by this first step and look forward to seeing more positive actions. It's good for the entire industry that we clean up the online sellers and protect consumers as much as possible.

Weiss · January 19, 2012 4:22AM

I think it's great. EBay realized that their current bottom line (sales of fakes) is potentially damaging their future bottom line (integrity of the coin market). It's completely logical but it's also somewhat uncommon to see a corporation doing that.

I can't help but wonder what it will do to "fantasy" coins like the dcarr overstrikes. Will they no longer allow them at all, will they keep the Fantasy Issue Coin category?

Greeniejr · January 19, 2012 4:25AM

<< 

<< This is part of a two part process that eBay is working on with the secret service. Step 1 is this ban. That will stop allowing people to sell the replica's, gain contacts to sell this material into the country. The Chinese counterfeiters are listing them on eBay with the replica stamp then trying to convince the buyers to get more without the words replica and to distribute them. Once they do this, they will increase oversight over all coins enlisting the help of experts. The secret service is taking the lead on this which is about the best we can ask for. >>

And your source for this bombshell?

bob >>

Representatives from eBay met with many dealers at the FUN show. These were actually real human beings with business cards, phone numbers and email addresses. Its hard to believe but somewhere in eBay bunker in Silicon Valley there exists real human beings.

RYK · January 19, 2012 4:25AM

What does this new policy do to the market for some of Dan Carr's reproductions, if anything?

It all seems rather murky to me.

OriginalDan · January 19, 2012 4:35AM

<< 

<< 

<< This is part of a two part process that eBay is working on with the secret service. Step 1 is this ban. That will stop allowing people to sell the replica's, gain contacts to sell this material into the country. The Chinese counterfeiters are listing them on eBay with the replica stamp then trying to convince the buyers to get more without the words replica and to distribute them. Once they do this, they will increase oversight over all coins enlisting the help of experts. The secret service is taking the lead on this which is about the best we can ask for. >>

And your source for this bombshell?

bob >>

Representatives from eBay met with many dealers at the FUN show. These were actually real human beings with business cards, phone numbers and email addresses. Its hard to believe but somewhere in eBay bunker in Silicon Valley there exists real human beings. >>

I live about 5 blocks from eBay HQ (seriously) and I've only ever seen robots going in and out.

Funny thing is, when I had to escalate a fraud case, I ended up talking to a woman in Colorado. I had offered to drive over and show them the fake coin/holder, but it didn't matter since their fraud people weren't at the main campus.

braddick · January 19, 2012 4:35AM

<< What does this new policy do to the market for some of Dan Carr's reproductions, if anything?

It all seems rather murky to me. >>

Good point, but I would think a copy of Daniel Carr's 1964 Peace dollar would be a violation, not the selling of the original strikings.
I do agree it is a somewhat murky area though and I'd be curious how eBay handles this when one is reported under the new selling limitation.

asdfy · January 19, 2012 4:46AM

eBay's definition of replica coins is as follows:

“a copy or reproduction of an actual coin, including U.S., foreign and other historic coins.”

http://news.coinupdate.com/replica-coin-listings-to-be-removed-from-ebay-1173/

So it seems that fantasy pieces are unaffected.

crypto79 · January 19, 2012 4:47AM

<< 

<< What does this new policy do to the market for some of Dan Carr's reproductions, if anything?

It all seems rather murky to me. >>

Good point, but I would think a copy of Daniel Carr's 1964 Peace dollar would be a violation, not the selling of the original strikings.
I do agree it is a somewhat murky area though and I'd be curious how eBay handles this when one is reported under the new selling limitation. >>

IMO that is a silly interpatation of the new rule as it relates to D Carr. I personally draw no distinction between a copy of an America coin or series or a copy of a copy of an America coin or series. D Carr's stuff is not legal tender but it looks like legal tender, that to me is the definition of a fake. If I bleach a piece of currency paper from a 1$ bill and print a rare or unknown 1$ bill on top of it but Photoshop an unused date on to it, I suspect the Secret Service would take the same view as mine on the practice of fantasy reproductions. I suspect he will eventualy get called to task for his opperations.

MikeInFL · January 19, 2012 5:04AM

<< I, for one, am extremely encouraged by this first step and look forward to seeing more positive actions. It's good for the entire industry that we clean up the online sellers and protect consumers as much as possible. >>

+1.

Well said, sir.

NoPole · January 19, 2012 5:19AM

This is great news!

stevkc · January 19, 2012 5:20AM

It is hard to believe that 'coins' marked "COPY" and listed as such are really that much a of problem. I won't miss having to sift through those listings, but this just doesn't seem like a situation that really needed a remedy. It of course does nothing for the real issue of people like me being leery of buying Morgans or anything approaching $100 because it might be copy that ISN'T marked.

notwilight · January 19, 2012 5:23AM

In addition to what everyone else has said (which I won't repeat), I'll add the following:

It would suck right now to be a legitimate (US) seller of copies where that was a significant portion of your business.

--Jerry

joefro · January 19, 2012 6:04AM

This doesn't really have a big impact, IMO. The only people who are affected are the "honest" sellers that claimed their coins with replicas. The people who don't include that info in the listing can still scam people, although it will be easier for people to fight with eBay to get their money back.

However, if they claim the purpose is to build confidence in the coin community, they should know that the replica problem is nothing compared to the counterfeit (slab & coin) problem that is growing at a disturbing rate. Fake slabs have a potential to devastate this hobby and obliterate buyer confidence on eBay.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 19, 2012 6:06AM

Someone will come along and list them (replicas and copies) in another category as some "thing made of stuff" and they'll sell like hotcakes to the ignorant just like they always have.
As for my opinion, this a graceful step in the right direction for the protection of the hobby, as it will hopefully keep replicated and copied stuff in the right category. This is similar , in nature, to the U.S. Coin forum & THE RULES.

Good things don't just happen. There's always a reason for change. This implemented change is a welcome and fair trade practice. The middle man makes the deal, and that's eBay. This is fair, in my opinion. Kudos to those in charge.

Timbuk3 · January 19, 2012 6:06AM

That's really good news !!!

yellowkid · January 19, 2012 6:21AM

A step in the right direction. I wonder what they will do about "facsimile" coins?

DIMEMAN · January 19, 2012 7:16AM

This is a great start and should include the Carr stuff!

Lakesammman · January 19, 2012 7:22AM

Should NOT include the Carr stuff.

Are electrotypes now banned??

notwilight · January 19, 2012 7:34AM

I see we're getting the same emotional reaction to D Carr's creations. It's like politics. People who hate something want to find a rule, no matter how esoteric, to kill it. Same with people who support something. --jerry

messydesk · January 19, 2012 7:36AM

If this is a means to an end, and the Secret Service is involved and interested in actually doing something about counterfeiting, then there is at least one positive aspect to this. I wonder, however, if a potentially overly aggressive Secret Service will drive legitimately collectible counterfeits like older contemporary counterfeits, private restrikes, and 19th century electrotypes underground.

jmski52 · January 19, 2012 7:48AM

You can't have a replica of something that doesn't exist.

taxmad · January 19, 2012 7:50AM

<< This is a great start and should include the Carr stuff! >>

Would they include all the CA gold and HTT's that look like US coinage?

coinpictures · January 19, 2012 8:15AM

Apparently there's any number of people here incapable of drawing the distinction between "replica" and "fantasy". The two are not even remotely alike.

RYK · January 19, 2012 8:45AM

<< Apparently there's any number of people here incapable of drawing the distinction between "replica" and "fantasy". The two are not even remotely alike. >>

I think that there are lots of grey areas, and the ebay proclamation does not make it clear enough, IMO. I suspect that the new rules will add to the confusion.

telephoto1 · January 19, 2012 8:52AM

On the surface of it, it seems like a good positive step forward. Certainly can't hurt, and may help, a little.
But realistically, as was said earlier, all this does is eliminate the "honest" sellers of replicas who actually have marked replicas. It does absolutely nothing to stop those who are selling unmarked replicas as the real thing, which is the actual, much more insidious problem.

epcjimi1 · January 19, 2012 9:00AM

The way I read the earlier DavidLawrence post that elaborates on the intent of the policy revision, ebay isn't going to allow the sale of coins that say "COPY" on them. Whether that's the way this turns out, I don't know.

D. Carr coins don't say "COPY" on them (nor is this thread the place to discuss whether they should or not). Photoshop "COPY" onto a D Carr coin image that you are listing on ebay for sale and you won't be able to sell it because you would not deliver a D. Carr coin with copy stamped on it. Same goes for the chinese counterfeits, photoshop copy into the image, deliver to the buyer a coin without "COPY" is a SNAD. Best to get rid of the copies, I guess.

Ebay no longer to allow "Replica" coins to be sold

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Ebay no longer to allow &quot;Replica&quot; coins to be sold

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Ebay no longer to allow "Replica" coins to be sold