"Numismatic Gladiator" I (Aethelred vs. lordmarcovan)

lordmarcovan · May 6, 2016 2:34AM

As you may have read, Aethelred challenged me to a duel.

1. We both agreed to purchase one inexpensive Roman Imperial coin.

2. The coin had to cost no more than $20.00 US.

3. In order to avoid one of us having an advantage we agreed to each buy our coins from the VCoins site at full list price.

4. Shipping was not included in the $20.00 limit.

5. You can now vote on which coin you like best without knowing which coin belongs to whom. That will be revealed at the end.

6. The person whose coin gets the most votes wins bragging rights.

And the first "Numismatic Gladiator" laurels, of course.

This poll will run until midnight Eastern on May 13, 2016. (Friday the Thirteenth!)

This could be an ongoing thing, if the idea proves popular. Aethelred and I have discussed pairing up other forum members in future "Numismatic Gladiator" showdowns. A World Coin version could be done for "N.G. II", perhaps.

But more on that later. First, let's get our little duel underway...

Which do you like better?

COIN A: Roman bronze antoninianus of Aurelian (270-275 AD), @ $20.00 from Zurqieh Co. LLC.

COIN B: Roman bronze antoninianus of Probus (276-282 AD), @ $18.00 from Aegean Numismatics.

The coins are listed in chronological order.

It was complete chance that we both ended up selecting coins of the same denomination, from the same era, with similar patina, since neither of us knew what the other would buy, obviously.

And a bizarre coincidence that we both ended up with coins having the same RESTITVT(OR) ORBIS ("Restorer of the World") reverses. You could call that a little eerie, or think of it as a good omen in these uncertain political times.

Regardless, it's been fun, and may the "best" coin win!

(To be gentlemanly- and honest- I'll be voting the "they're both great" option in the poll, because I'd have bought either of them at the price. But vote as you see fit.)

Update, 5/13/16: The results at poll's end were as follows, producing victory for Aethelred.

Which coin was the better deal? (Total Votes: 51)

A- The Aurelian antoninianus @ $20.00

22 votes 43.14 (%)

B- The Probus antoninianus @ $18.00

26 votes 50.98 (%)

C- I can't decide- they're both great for the money

3 votes 5.88 (%)

D- Neither- they both suck

0 votes 0.00 (%)

E- Neutral all the way- just show me the poll results already

0 votes 0.00 (%)

Aethelred · May 6, 2016 2:39AM

(To be gentlemanly- and honest- I'll be voting the "they're both great" option in the poll, because I'd have bought either of them at the price. But vote as you see fit.)

I will be following LordM's example and will not vote for my coin either.

asheland · May 6, 2016 3:17AM

I went with B, but they are both really cool and awesome!

lordmarcovan · May 6, 2016 3:48AM

Someone is gonna get a sigline trophy on Friday the Thirteenth!

TwoKopeiki · May 6, 2016 4:00AM

I like the patina on the first one better.

savoyspecial · May 6, 2016 5:46AM

I vote the first one (but it was very close!)

harasha · May 6, 2016 7:20AM

I prefer the Probus. However, I do like the selections offered by Zurqieh, in general.

coinkat · May 6, 2016 7:45AM

I am announcing that I am going to announce a Press Conference that will involve an announcement a deferment of any endorsement, decision or vote until such time that I am able to conduct and complete an investigation into the facts and circumstances surrounding the rules, the selection process or anything else I can think of that could be pertinent to this burdensome task that has been inflicted upon me just for opening this thread. And in view of these circumstances, I must expressly reserve the right to write-in and/or support what other ancient coins that may be presented by others duly qualified who chose to exercise their God given right to select such coins and participate in this event.

My statement cannot be deemed or construed as a waiver of any voting rights in the event of a tie or should a second or third ballot (poll) be required to choose the coin that best represents the intent of this event.

Just a cheap shot at trying to get someone to laugh- I have no idea which is the better coin for the money. So as it is often said, If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance... well, you know the rest...

And only if I could just satisfy one part of the quote...

Andres · May 6, 2016 8:03AM

I did vote for coin A , it has a slightly better, clearer reverse imho
both coins for approx $20 each are well spend

Jackthecat1 · May 6, 2016 8:20AM

I voted A but it was an incredibly close call.

Stork · May 6, 2016 10:28AM

Both are very nice, and much as I wanted to vote for both I forced myself to pick one. The 'both' vote should stay with the gladiators and the rest of us need to do our equivalent of the thumbs up or down vote.

Aethelred · May 6, 2016 11:23AM

Coinkat should run for office!

TitusFlavius · May 6, 2016 2:16PM

Wow, that is a tough choice. Same denomination and reverse type. Both emperors tried to repair the damage done to the Empire by decades of civil wars, only to be tragically assassinated.

I picked B over A only because it was a better deal by $2. I couldn't pick between them otherwise.

PatAR · May 6, 2016 2:30PM

Originally posted by: coinkat
trying to get someone to laugh

It worked

Love that sigline trophy LordM. That's sweet!

Incredibly close contest. I had to force myself to pick one. The Probus (Coin

.

lordmarcovan · May 6, 2016 3:33PM

Originally posted by: PatAR

Originally posted by: coinkat

trying to get someone to laugh

It worked

Love that sigline trophy LordM. That's sweet!

Incredibly close contest. I had to force myself to pick one. The Probus (Coin

.

Indeed- I would vote for coinkat with far less reluctance than I'd have voting for either party's presumptive nominee in this year's presidential election!

As to the sigline trophy, I made it so the Roman numeral inside the gold laurel wreath can be easily changed for future contests. This is but the first "Numismatic Gladiator" showdown. We can have more, and perhaps future combat- er- contestants can choose what category and price point they wish to compete in. (However, Aethelred and I are agreed that the $20 limit is a good thing- it keeps it democratic, gentlemanly, and makes it more challenging for someone to "buy their way to success".)

As to the coins in play here, we are both agreed that:

1) the Aurelian is very slightly better in grade (if only by approximately 5 points or so on the Sheldon scale, were that applicable to ancients).

2) the Probus clearly has a somewhat nicer flan (and maybe strike, though I can't say for sure on the latter).

But as mentioned, both are nice coins for the money, and both have nice patina.

I only bought one of them, but I'd have bought either, and this is turning out to be a pretty close contest, like we thought it would be. It's really amazing how similar our private picks turned out to be.

Aethelred · May 6, 2016 11:01PM

It is interesting to me how similar my choice and Rob's were.

As mentioned both coins were minted within a few years of each other, they both use the same reverse type, both have a similar patina. Both coins show emperors who attempted (with some degree of success) to restore the Roman Empire to it's former glory and both were assassinated after short reigns.

Not mentioned so far is this:

The Aurelian is RIC-386 from the Antioch Mint.

The Probus is RIC-925 from the Antioch Mint.

Aethelred · May 6, 2016 11:06PM

One further observation. Collecting ancient coins is often seen by non-ancient collectors as inaccessible for one or more reasons, among the reasons cited are:

Ancient coins are very rare: While it is true that compared to modern, mass produced coins, ancient coins were made in far fewer numbers. It is also true that many ancient coins were minted over prolonged periods of time and are surprisingly common. The silver Tetradrachms of Athens and Macedonia were minted in huge numbers over more than a hundred years. The small bronze coinage of Judaea which was minted over a period of 175 years is represented by hundreds of thousands if not millions of examples. Perhaps the most common of all ancient coins, the bronze coins of the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great, were minted at numerous locations all over the Empire. I have read estimates that more than ten million of these coins were struck. There are ancient coins that are very rare, there are some where only a single coin is now know to exist, but this is the exception. There are many, many types of ancient coins that exist in large (and growing as many more are being unearthed every year thanks to modern technology) numbers.

All ancient coins are in museums: Many ancient coins are so common that museums simply do not have the room to store them all and would not want them all. Museums seek a few exceptional examples to display and some examples from important locations, but they have no interest in a thousand common bronze coins unearthed by a farmer’s plough.

Ancient coins cost huge sums of money: As with any collectable item, the value of ancient coins is determined by the laws of supply and demand. If there are 20,000 to 50,000 ancient coin collectors in the world and at a given time 100-200 of those collectors are looking for a specific coin, but there are 3,000 of that specific coin listed for sale in dealer lists you can imagine that the price of that coin is going to be very low indeed. It is often the case that there are many more coins in dealer inventory than there are collectors looking for those coins. However, if a coin comes along that is rarely offered and there are several collectors waiting to add that coin to their collection that coin could bring a very high price.

All ancient coins were stolen from archaeological sites: Nothing could be farther from the truth! The vast majority of ancient coins that are on the market today were obtained and exported legally from the country in which they were found. Large hoards of coins are found in farmers fields or open spaces where there is no wider archaeological context in which to place them. Such finds are of limited (or no) academic value.

You have to be an expert to collect ancient coins: Many people shy away from ancient coins because they feel they are simply not up to the task of collecting and understanding them. This is to me the saddest of all reasons not to engage in a hobby that might have brought a lifetime of pleasure. Many people have the misguided notion that they have to read Greek, Latin or Hebrew or that they have to have been formally educated in Classical History to be able to successfully collect ancient coins. In fact all you really need is an interest in history and a willingness to learn. There is no requirement that you reach a certain level of knowledge, a dealer is not going to refuse to sell you a coin because you don’t know enough or pronounced Ptolemy the wrong way. No modern coin collector would decide not to buy a 1974 United States Proof Set because they were not experts on the Watergate Hearings. If you do not collect ancient coins only because you feel you don’t know enough about ancient history you might very well be robbing yourself of the opportunity to do that very thing, to learn what ancient coins can teach you about ancient history. In my life I have always been drawn to history, I have had wonderful teachers and read fascinating books, but I have always found that coins are the best teachers of all. Imagine reading a lengthy article about a recent historical event, then imagine being told about that same event by someone who was an eyewitness to that event, which do you think would give you a deeper connection to that event? Of course it would be the eyewitness account, ancient coins are eyewitnesses to ancient history, they were there when Alexander brought down the mighty Persian Empire, they were there when Caesar was assassinated and they were there when a carpenter from Nazereth taught crowds of people on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. You can hold these coins in your hand and have a connection to the ancient person who made it and to the people who used it, you can allow it to transport you back in time and make history come alive before your eyes. When you start buying ancient coins you will thirst to know all about where they came from and why there were made and in time you will know more than you ever thought possible.

bronzemat · May 6, 2016 11:58PM

Originally posted by: Aethelred

One further observation. Collecting ancient coins is often seen by non-ancient collectors as inaccessible for one or more reasons, among the reasons cited are:

Ancient coins are very rare: While it is true that compared to modern, mass produced coins, ancient coins were made in far fewer numbers. It is also true that many ancient coins were minted over prolonged periods of time and are surprisingly common. The silver Tetradrachms of Athens and Macedonia were minted in huge numbers over more than a hundred years. The small bronze coinage of Judaea which was minted over a period of 175 years is represented by hundreds of thousands if not millions of examples. Perhaps the most common of all ancient coins, the bronze coins of the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great, were minted at numerous locations all over the Empire. I have read estimates that more than ten million of these coins were struck. There are ancient coins that are very rare, there are some where only a single coin is now know to exist, but this is the exception. There are many, many types of ancient coins that exist in large (and growing as many more are being unearthed every year thanks to modern technology) numbers.

All ancient coins are in museums: Many ancient coins are so common that museums simply do not have the room to store them all and would not want them all. Museums seek a few exceptional examples to display and some examples from important locations, but they have no interest in a thousand common bronze coins unearthed by a farmer’s plough.

Ancient coins cost huge sums of money: As with any collectable item, the value of ancient coins is determined by the laws of supply and demand. If there are 20,000 to 50,000 ancient coin collectors in the world and at a given time 100-200 of those collectors are looking for a specific coin, but there are 3,000 of that specific coin listed for sale in dealer lists you can imagine that the price of that coin is going to be very low indeed. It is often the case that there are many more coins in dealer inventory than there are collectors looking for those coins. However, if a coin comes along that is rarely offered and there are several collectors waiting to add that coin to their collection that coin could bring a very high price.

All ancient coins were stolen from archaeological sites: Nothing could be farther from the truth! The vast majority of ancient coins that are on the market today were obtained and exported legally from the country in which they were found. Large hoards of coins are found in farmers fields or open spaces where there is no wider archaeological context in which to place them. Such finds are of limited (or no) academic value.

You have to be an expert to collect ancient coins: Many people shy away from ancient coins because they feel they are simply not up to the task of collecting and understanding them. This is to me the saddest of all reasons not to engage in a hobby that might have brought a lifetime of pleasure. Many people have the misguided notion that they have to read Greek, Latin or Hebrew or that they have to have been formally educated in Classical History to be able to successfully collect ancient coins. In fact all you really need is an interest in history and a willingness to learn. There is no requirement that you reach a certain level of knowledge, a dealer is not going to refuse to sell you a coin because you don’t know enough or pronounced Ptolemy the wrong way. No modern coin collector would decide not to buy a 1974 United States Proof Set because they were not experts on the Watergate Hearings. If you do not collect ancient coins only because you feel you don’t know enough about ancient history you might very well be robbing yourself of the opportunity to do that very thing, to learn what ancient coins can teach you about ancient history. In my life I have always been drawn to history, I have had wonderful teachers and read fascinating books, but I have always found that coins are the best teachers of all. Imagine reading a lengthy article about a recent historical event, then imagine being told about that same event by someone who was an eyewitness to that event, which do you think would give you a deeper connection to that event? Of course it would be the eyewitness account, ancient coins are eyewitnesses to ancient history, they were there when Alexander brought down the mighty Persian Empire, they were there when Caesar was assassinated and they were there when a carpenter from Nazereth taught crowds of people on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. You can hold these coins in your hand and have a connection to the ancient person who made it and to the people who used it, you can allow it to transport you back in time and make history come alive before your eyes. When you start buying ancient coins you will thirst to know all about where they came from and why there were made and in time you will know more than you ever thought possible.

This whole comment should be pinned, very true.

Aethelred · May 7, 2016 4:26AM

One more quick observation (I know I said one more last time, but I can't help it).

For those inclined to believe the myth the prior to Columbus people believed the world was flat, the Probus coins shows the RESTITVT ORBIS "Restorer of the World" reverse. It shows a female figure presenting a wreath to the emperor who is holding the world in his hand, the world is shown as a ROUND GLOBE!

From that it is obvious that anyone who lived in ancient Rome and used coins knew the world was round. I could add that so did anyone who looked at the shadow of the Earth on the Moon, watched a ship leave port, observed shadows in sunlight and stopped to think about them for a minute or observed the sky night after night, but I shall digress.

That Columbus had to convince Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain that the world was round is tall tale spun by Washington Irving in the early 1800s. Irving was a "historian" who did for history what Jack the Ripper did for women's right. The story struck a cord with "modern enlightened" people who were anxious to show how far we had advanced from the "ignorant brutes" from the ancient world.

Iosephus · May 7, 2016 5:09AM

Originally posted by: Aethelred
One more quick observation (I know I said one more last time, but I can't help it).

For those inclined to believe the myth the prior to Columbus people believed the world was flat, the Probus coins shows the RESTITVT ORBIS "Restorer of the World" reverse. It shows a female figure presenting a wreath to the emperor who is holding the world in his hand, the world is shown as a ROUND GLOBE!

From that it is obvious that anyone who lived in ancient Rome and used coins knew the world was round. I could add that so did anyone who looked at the shadow of the Earth on the Moon, watched a ship leave port, observed shadows in sunlight and stopped to think about them for a minute or observed the sky night after night, but I shall digress.

That Columbus had to convince Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain that the world was round is tall tale spun by Washington Irving in the early 1800s. Irving was a "historian" who did for history what Jack the Ripper did for women's right. The story struck a cord with "modern enlightened" people who were anxious to show how far we had advanced from the "ignorant brutes" from the ancient world.

Thanks for the historical tidbit, it helped me finally decide which coin to vote for! Now I'm curious to find out which of the coins is yours ...

BS · May 7, 2016 5:58AM

It was hard to pick but I went with coin A.

coinkat · May 7, 2016 7:17AM

Seriously, both coins are attractive and I did not vote mainly because I just do not know enough about them.

This was a great idea and I hope this concept becomes a tradition here. I can see this being done on several levels-

-Buy a coin- limited price- select the winner based on images
-Buy a coin-limited price-limited to a country- select a winner
-Buy a coin- limited price- submit to our host- select a winner

And the possibilities are endless.

DNADave · May 7, 2016 8:09AM

B, Due to the color/look.

Aethelred · May 7, 2016 8:11AM

Good ideas Coinkat.

ajaan · May 7, 2016 8:45AM

I reserve my right to a secret ballot.

lordmarcovan · May 7, 2016 9:39AM

OK, I finally read the long post from my opponent, particularly the daunting final paragraph, and couldn't agree more. In fact, the final paragraph sums up my situation. I had an interest in ancient coins since the childhood beginnings of my collection (and even before I collected coins at all), but was so intimidated by the seemingly alien terminology, the history, the Latin and Greek, and the encyclopedic reference libraries that seemed necessary, that I only dabbled a very tiny bit before plunging wholeheartedly into them relatively late, in 2007. I literally woke up an ancient coin collector one day. I lay down for a nap, had a dream about collecting ancients, woke up, and said to myself, "Well, that does it. It's time to pursue this." And I've never regretted it. In just those few short years I have learned 90-95% of everything I know about ancient history, so yes- the coins have been my teachers. Far, far in excess of anything I ever learned in school.

I have been friends with Michael/Aethelred for about 23 years now, and for most of that time we've been numismatically kindred spirits. But he always had the edge on me when it came to knowledge about ancient coins. So win or lose, I'm just proud to be playing against him on an "equal" footing in this challenge. I've come a long way in a relatively short time. (Again- did you see how eerily similar the coins we bought were? Wow.)

Aethelred · May 7, 2016 11:06AM

Originally posted by: lordmarcovan

I have been friends with Michael/Aethelred for about 23 years now, and for most of that time we've been numismatically kindred spirits. But he always had the edge on me when it came to knowledge about ancient coins. So win or lose, I'm just proud to be playing against him on an "equal" footing in this challenge. I've come a long way in a relatively short time. (Again- did you see how eerily similar the coins we bought were? Wow.)

I just started sooner and at a younger age, and aside from a decades long period when English coins shared my attention, I have been primarly an ancient collector.

However, I have always thought you had a better eye for ancient coins than me, which may be part of the reason no few of yours have ended up in my collection. Of course some have moved in the opposite direction as well haven't they?

marcmoish · May 7, 2016 12:20PM

very funny coinkat ..you should perhaps start something like the weekly (for a spell) coinalot (clankeye) gems we had in the lite-side over a decade ago..

I picked B and seems am in the majority

determined · May 8, 2016 5:13PM

Originally posted by: Aethelred

In my life I have always been drawn to history, I have had wonderful teachers and read fascinating books, but I have always found that coins are the best teachers of all. Imagine reading a lengthy article about a recent historical event, then imagine being told about that same event by someone who was an eyewitness to that event, which do you think would give you a deeper connection to that event? Of course it would be the eyewitness account, ancient coins are eyewitnesses to ancient history, they were there when Alexander brought down the mighty Persian Empire, they were there when Caesar was assassinated and they were there when a carpenter from Nazereth taught crowds of people on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. You can hold these coins in your hand and have a connection to the ancient person who made it and to the people who used it, you can allow it to transport you back in time and make history come alive before your eyes. When you start buying ancient coins you will thirst to know all about where they came from and why there were made and in time you will know more than you ever thought possible.

Ancient numismatic prose poetry.

Brilliant post!

asheland · May 9, 2016 3:19AM

Originally posted by: Aethelred
One further observation. Collecting ancient coins is often seen by non-ancient collectors as inaccessible for one or more reasons, among the reasons cited are:

Ancient coins are very rare: While it is true that compared to modern, mass produced coins, ancient coins were made in far fewer numbers. It is also true that many ancient coins were minted over prolonged periods of time and are surprisingly common. The silver Tetradrachms of Athens and Macedonia were minted in huge numbers over more than a hundred years. The small bronze coinage of Judaea which was minted over a period of 175 years is represented by hundreds of thousands if not millions of examples. Perhaps the most common of all ancient coins, the bronze coins of the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great, were minted at numerous locations all over the Empire. I have read estimates that more than ten million of these coins were struck. There are ancient coins that are very rare, there are some where only a single coin is now know to exist, but this is the exception. There are many, many types of ancient coins that exist in large (and growing as many more are being unearthed every year thanks to modern technology) numbers.

All ancient coins are in museums: Many ancient coins are so common that museums simply do not have the room to store them all and would not want them all. Museums seek a few exceptional examples to display and some examples from important locations, but they have no interest in a thousand common bronze coins unearthed by a farmer’s plough.

Ancient coins cost huge sums of money: As with any collectable item, the value of ancient coins is determined by the laws of supply and demand. If there are 20,000 to 50,000 ancient coin collectors in the world and at a given time 100-200 of those collectors are looking for a specific coin, but there are 3,000 of that specific coin listed for sale in dealer lists you can imagine that the price of that coin is going to be very low indeed. It is often the case that there are many more coins in dealer inventory than there are collectors looking for those coins. However, if a coin comes along that is rarely offered and there are several collectors waiting to add that coin to their collection that coin could bring a very high price.

All ancient coins were stolen from archaeological sites: Nothing could be farther from the truth! The vast majority of ancient coins that are on the market today were obtained and exported legally from the country in which they were found. Large hoards of coins are found in farmers fields or open spaces where there is no wider archaeological context in which to place them. Such finds are of limited (or no) academic value.

You have to be an expert to collect ancient coins: Many people shy away from ancient coins because they feel they are simply not up to the task of collecting and understanding them. This is to me the saddest of all reasons not to engage in a hobby that might have brought a lifetime of pleasure. Many people have the misguided notion that they have to read Greek, Latin or Hebrew or that they have to have been formally educated in Classical History to be able to successfully collect ancient coins. In fact all you really need is an interest in history and a willingness to learn. There is no requirement that you reach a certain level of knowledge, a dealer is not going to refuse to sell you a coin because you don’t know enough or pronounced Ptolemy the wrong way. No modern coin collector would decide not to buy a 1974 United States Proof Set because they were not experts on the Watergate Hearings. If you do not collect ancient coins only because you feel you don’t know enough about ancient history you might very well be robbing yourself of the opportunity to do that very thing, to learn what ancient coins can teach you about ancient history. In my life I have always been drawn to history, I have had wonderful teachers and read fascinating books, but I have always found that coins are the best teachers of all. Imagine reading a lengthy article about a recent historical event, then imagine being told about that same event by someone who was an eyewitness to that event, which do you think would give you a deeper connection to that event? Of course it would be the eyewitness account, ancient coins are eyewitnesses to ancient history, they were there when Alexander brought down the mighty Persian Empire, they were there when Caesar was assassinated and they were there when a carpenter from Nazereth taught crowds of people on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. You can hold these coins in your hand and have a connection to the ancient person who made it and to the people who used it, you can allow it to transport you back in time and make history come alive before your eyes. When you start buying ancient coins you will thirst to know all about where they came from and why there were made and in time you will know more than you ever thought possible.

Very well said!

asheland · May 9, 2016 3:26AM

I'm liking this thread a lot!

DIMEMAN · May 10, 2016 1:01AM

I voted for B, but race looks to be going down to the wire!

Swampboy · May 10, 2016 10:24AM

43 voters

19 A.

21 B.

03 C.

I voted A. the other day.

Both great coins for the money.

Cool thread.

LarkinCollector · May 11, 2016 12:34AM

I'm more a card guy, but lurk over here occasionally. I enjoy seeing the contests, especially those with limited budget and both look great to me. I chose B, primarily for better strike/less wear.

CIVITAS · May 11, 2016 3:20AM

I voted for A because of the nicely contrasting patina.

asheland · May 13, 2016 6:34AM

I await the results!

Driggs · May 13, 2016 10:20AM

Really impressed by both for the money, but I had to go with B.

Love the note about the globe on that one.

lordmarcovan · May 13, 2016 3:48PM

And the winner is...

Coin B- the Probus antoninianus!

And that coin was purchased by...

Aethelred!

I hereby concede the contest, and was fairly beaten, though I'm happy to say my Aurelian coin made a good showing (and I noticed it got the Civitas nod for the same reason I bought it.)

Conga-rats, O Dead King.

Here, you needed something in that empty sigline of yours.

Aethelred · May 13, 2016 9:47PM

It is an honor to accept the first Numismatic Gladiator award.

The contest was evenly matched and either coin could have won. LordcM has a good eye and picked a nice coin that on a different day might have won.

The more important point of of all this, that pleasant and interesting ancient coins can be collected without spending a lot of money, is and rightly should be the real winner of this contest. My hope is that someone who didn't colect ancients before will see this and consider them.

Stork · May 14, 2016 2:40AM

Great contest! Congratulations to both of you really.

Andres · May 14, 2016 11:14AM

Congrats Gentlemen , you both deserve the Gladiator award imho.

nicholasz219 · May 14, 2016 2:24PM

A few things:

One, nice job on the contest idea and execution to both Aethelred and LordMarcovan. Well done. the forum has been kind of blah lately, and this is a great way to pull people out of the woodwork and just great fun in general.

I also agree with the sentiments that both Aethelred and LordMarcovan (as well as some others) mentioned. I was very intimidated by ancients for about twenty years mostly I think because my only interaction with them was reading old Numismatic Fine Arts catalogs that I got from an older collector in the 80's. Back then, the idea of paying $700 for a coin might have well been paying $7,000,000. (I was a kid in the 80s. Not that I have $700 now either.)

Then as I got older it was more of a different set of issues: "How the h*** do you read these things?" "Is that cuirassed and draped or just draped?" Why is this EA mintmark not in this book?" "Why is Wildwinds frozen again?"

But with time, patience and just putting your eyes and hands on more and more ancients, things come around. Thanks to LM for a few seed coins in the form of giveaways won, for Josh at Civets for being a real friend as well as a dealer and helping me out with some things and Mat for being my ancient coin friend in chief. Now I can even go to Berk here in my hometown and not feel entirely stupid. (Just very broke now, lol.)

I would have bought either for sure, because LRB are where it is at for me recently. I would have selected the Probus if it was my last twenty dollars because he is a specialty of mine. I agree though that the patina on the Aurelian is better and the muddling of the letter above the exergue line on the Probus kind of sucks.

Also, I have bought many nice coins from Zurqieh like this. There was a concern stated about false patinas brought up on another forum so I soaked a coin very similar to this in water and alcohol with zero change. Glad to see a coin of his in the competition. He is a nice man to boot.

TwoKopeiki · May 14, 2016 3:36PM

Quite the numismatic melee - congrats on a close win, Aethelred!

asheland · May 16, 2016 1:00AM

Originally posted by: Stork
Great contest! Congratulations to both of you really.

lordmarcovan · May 16, 2016 3:51PM

Now I can even go to Berk here in my hometown

Well, you suck for that! I can't imagine having a big dealer in my hometown, let alone some firm like HJB!

There was a concern stated about false patinas brought up on another forum so I soaked a coin very similar to this in water and alcohol with zero change.

Interesting. I did kind of wonder, with Zurqieh having so many bronzes with consistently nice (and very similar) desert patinas. The Aurelian above arrived today. Looks great in hand. In light of your comment, I too just tried a little alcohol on it and the patina remains unchanged. My guess is that he just knows how to clean them well (on the high points) to produce the contrasting devices. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

LochNESS · August 2, 2016 7:06PM

Months later, some additional votes have trickled in. Including my own, for the Probus. And that was before I had read any of the comments, only the Lord M's OP with photos of the coins (I voted before I saw the results).

I find it worth noting that, even though Coin A has gotten a higher percentage of votes since the tally, the Probus still reigns supreme.

My choice was decided by the globe. The Probus has one, the Aurelian does not. When I read all the comments afterwards, and read Aethelred's knowledge bomb about the design, it was a great feeling to know I had focused on the right element of the design.

lordmarcovan · August 2, 2016 7:11PM

The globe was a deciding factor for more than one person.

Aethelred · August 6, 2016 10:32AM

Originally posted by: LochNESS
Months later, some additional votes have trickled in. Including my own, for the Probus. And that was before I had read any of the comments, only the Lord M's OP with photos of the coins (I voted before I saw the results).

I find it worth noting that, even though Coin A has gotten a higher percentage of votes since the tally, the Probus still reigns supreme.

My choice was decided by the globe. The Probus has one, the Aurelian does not. When I read all the comments afterwards, and read Aethelred's knowledge bomb about the design, it was a great feeling to know I had focused on the right element of the design.

Thank you, it is nice to see that someone found my comments interesting or informative.

"Numismatic Gladiator" I (Aethelred vs. lordmarcovan)

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