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Spanish Colonial 8 Reales Pillars and Portraits Set Active
Boosibri
Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭✭
Very cool Portrait and Pillar type set is now active in the PCGS Registry. Thanks to BJ and team for help in creating this!
Spanish Colonial 8 Reales
Spanish Colonial 8 Reales
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MEXICAN CHARLES IV (BUST OF CHARLES III) 8 REALES, CIRCULATION STRIKES (1789-1790)
As it stands now this type is missing, although maybe this want intentional? Seems like an important transitional type to me, but not everyone may agree.
8 Reales Madness Collection
If the group wants it added I'll make the request.
Latin American Collection
Latin American Collection
Latin American Collection
I excluded this as a transitional variety vs a distinct separate type but I thought about it.
If the group wants it added I'll make the request.
Hm, good point. Maybe you're right. What stuck out as odd to me is that if you exclude it, you have a gap in the series.
You wanna let BJ know or should I? Once that's fixed I'll be at 100%
Edit: Oops maybe I'm wrong. What's he difference between "Imaginary Military" bust from 1808-1811 and "Armored Bust" from 1808-1811. Weren't all of these crude renditions of the portrait?
I excluded this as a transitional variety vs a distinct separate type but I thought about it.
If the group wants it added I'll make the request.
Hm, good point. Maybe you're right. What stuck out as odd to me is that if you exclude it, you have a gap in the series.
I thought the same which is now upon reflection why I opted to add it. The argument against is that it is not a distinct portrait and makes the set a bit more esoteric.
Latin American Collection
Also, it appears that none of the Ferd VII Imaginary bust coins from Mexico (1808-1811) are showing up as available for the set.
You wanna let BJ know or should I? Once that's fixed I'll be at 100%
Edit: Oops maybe I'm wrong. What's he difference between "Imaginary Military" bust from 1808-1811 and "Armored Bust" from 1808-1811. Weren't all of these crude renditions of the portrait?
Armoured Bust:
Imaginary Bust
Latin American Collection
Latin American Collection
8 Reales Madness Collection
Both were technically "imaginary" as the proper hubs did not arrive from Spain until 1811/12
This is my understanding as well.
Latin American Collection
Ferdinand VII, Armored Bust (1808-1811)
Ferdinand VII, Imaginary Military Bust (1808-1811)
As far as I can tell they are the same. For some countries PCGS calls them one (such as Mexico), for other countries PCGS calls them the other (for example Peru).
There are certainly Imaginary Bust examples within the Armored Bust set for Mexico, and likely other countries as well.
Latin American Collection
8 Reales Madness Collection
8 Reales Madness Collection
Latin American Collection
Santiago:
Guatemala transitional:
Popayan:
Durango:
Guadalajara:
Chihuahua:
Zacatecas:
8 Reales Madness Collection
8 Reales Madness Collection
Latin American Collection
I don't think I agree OD, they are distinctly different design types
Well, you either go nuts or you keep it simple. As the set is defined now it doesn't really make sense.
The armored bust of Ferdin. VII from 1808-1811 are a type. As stated earlier the proper hubs didn't arrive until years later, so the mints each made up their own rendition (some better than others!) If you really want to do every type, you'd want to do a type for each mint since their renditions were all different.
My point is this, they're all Armored bust of Ferdin. VII. Some were hand crafted while others were made with proper Spanish hubs. My opinion is - it's better to keep it simple as a single type, otherwise it gets too confusing to try and cover each sub-type or each individual mint location. It's a high level type set not a comprehensive set.
Just an opinion though...
Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
It is a step deeper than a high level set should cover and as Dan notes it opens up many other issues which have equal merit. As to the various imaginary issues I think the clear portrait variations are warranting a separate entry. Should we include the Chilean design as well? Tough coin!
Latin American Collection
I'm thinking of asking BJ to remove the transitional Charles III type from the set. Anyone want to make a case for or against?
It is a step deeper than a high level set should cover and as Dan notes it opens up many other issues which have equal merit. As to the various imaginary issues I think the clear portrait variations are warranting a separate entry. Should we include the Chilean design as well? Tough coin!
I personally would keep the transitional CIII. It seems like an easily distinguishable type.
On the other hand, I'm not sure how you would even distinguish between the imaginary vs. proper portraits in the set registry. PCGS doesn't always use different coin numbers for them. As the set currently exists, "Ferdinand VII, Armored Bust (1808-1811)" includes a bunch of imaginary portraits from Mexico. Do you see what I mean? Too messy and impossible for PCGS to clearly differentiate. I agree that it would be nice to separate them out, but there's not clean way to do that for all the different mints.
Glad to see the set for whatever it is has gained interest.
Note, Charles III denomination set (incorrectly titled a type set) was added last night.
Latin American Collection