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Mexican Oaxaca War of Independence Copper Coins....anyone ??

I'm a pushover for crude copper and these pieces really spiked my interest. I know nothing other than web surfing any collectors here work this series?

Comments

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are you talking about the SUD copper (and a debated silver) coinage? It's a pretty neat series to collect. Lots of varieties of the design. I don't think there's a specialized reference just for these, but there are lots of plates and some information included in Pradeau's "Numismatic history of Mexico".
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,580 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I understandings of fakes exist in the SUD issues. True?
  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: TwoKopeiki

    Are you talking about the SUD copper (and a debated silver) coinage? It's a pretty neat series to collect. Lots of varieties of the design. I don't think there's a specialized reference just for these, but there are lots of plates and some information included in Pradeau's "Numismatic history of Mexico".




    There's a specialized reference for everything!



    Lyman H. Low I believe published a few books on the coinage of Morelos.



    Here's one.
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: pruebas

    Originally posted by: TwoKopeiki

    Are you talking about the SUD copper (and a debated silver) coinage? It's a pretty neat series to collect. Lots of varieties of the design. I don't think there's a specialized reference just for these, but there are lots of plates and some information included in Pradeau's "Numismatic history of Mexico".




    There's a specialized reference for everything!



    Lyman H. Low I believe published a few books on the coinage of Morelos.



    Here's one.




    Thanks for the link!
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,580 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What an Eye Opener regarding the number of dies used to create these pieces! I'm just so unsure if, or where IS, the real vs. fake specimens. In hunting down eBay listings nearly every piece is a variety unto itself. I'm concerned with pieces which look as if they were scraped on pavement it dresses with a harsh file. Are these planchet making marks not flattened by the die strike. Ate there any estimates as to survivor numbers or rarity ratings? I'm eager to buy my first example!
  • worldcoinguyworldcoinguy Posts: 2,999 ✭✭✭✭
    I would love to see some pictures. I am far removed from having any relevant knowledge of the series, but I have always found the crude strikes and historical significance to be attractive.
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,580 ✭✭✭✭✭
    im just really learning this series I made three buys off eBay. The first is a known variety of the 8 real coin, its an error date, misstamped 18 812 for the date.this piece is a contemporary counterfeit. All 1812 8 reals are scarce but this one is a distinct and understood variety. I really like the color. The second 8 reals is an 1813, typical or the more ornate issues. Again a variety here as the 3 in the date is rounded. Of known rarity the angle top 3 coins outnumber this 20 to 1. Of lighter weight is has a nice color also. The 1812 2 reals seems to be the commonest (by number) piece of the series with a huge number of dies (at least over 50) seen. I like this one for type with its nice patina and eye appeal. It's typical of the SUD issues and quite attractive. These were all hand made coins. There are a lot of pieces to study and way farther to go. It's nice to buy a few coins again! [URL=http://s249.photobucket.com/user/ambro51/media/Mobile Uploads/image_zpss8ewrons.jpg.html]image[/URL][URL=http://s249.photobucket.com/user/ambro51/media/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsttfmjgev.jpg.html]image[/URL][URL=http://s249.photobucket.com/user/ambro51/media/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsspsor21e.jpg.html]image[/URL][URL=http://s249.photobucket.com/user/ambro51/media/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsspsor21e.jpg.html]image[/URL][URL=http://s249.photobucket.com/user/ambro51/media/Mobile Uploads/image_zps6ckf7twp.jpg.html]image[/URL][URL=http://s249.photobucket.com/user/ambro51/media/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsylgspxbc.jpg.html]image[/URL][URL=http://s249.photobucket.com/user/ambro51/media/Mobile Uploads/image_zpswunx8nqv.jpg.html]image[/URL]and last a 1812 1 real piece [URL=http://s249.photobucket.com/user/ambro51/media/Mobile Uploads/image_zpsslxge5oq.jpg.html]image[/URL]
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭
    When I read that you had purchased an error, my immediate thought was "wow this guy has some balls. He is brand new to this series, is aware counterfeits exist in the series, is shopping on eBay where many counterfeits are sold, and yet he bought an error" ... and then I read your remark that it's a contemporary counterfeit.



    Just curious, did you know before you bought? or after? and why did you buy it, if you knew before?



    The 2R is my favorite. I like the design best, I like the condition best of this lot, and I love the color.



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  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,580 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes the 18 812 was noted in the Lyman Low booklet (link in another post) as belonging to a class considered counterfeits. In this series I don't think this is negative factor. It seems the cast silver SUD coins are questionable also (and much more valuable than the copper issues). It seems also the 8 and 2 reale pieces far outnumber the 1/2 and 1 R coins. The period of circulation seem to end in mid 1814 when the coins were withdrawn by Gen. Alverez. I have not read yet if they Were indeed redeemed with silver coin (as promised). I can certainly see this as a great diminished in surviving populations. Any information or references to them would be much appreciated. Also......has anyone came across significant large collections offered in any major auction catalogs?
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