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FraudKings and FraudDuel Scandal
bronco2078
Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
I figured this would be a big topic on sports radio today but all I hear is crickets .
Is it because these 2 ridiculous companies sponsor the radio shows heavily ? Show of hands did anyone really think these leagues were legit? It's not sports betting .... well sure it is.
Whats the over under on whether these leagues get legislated out of existence ?
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<< <i>I figured this would be a big topic on sports radio today but all I hear is crickets .
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.
Before this revelation there was a 0% chance of these getting legislated out of existence. Now, I think there may be a very good chance. Once some enterprising investigative journalist (stop laughing!), digs a little deeper, I fear you might see these league were rife with fraud.
We will never know, but I wonder how far entries will decline this week.
Here's a story link: linkadoodly
The whole online poker and sports book world has been anything but tarnish-free during their entire existences.
I'm pretty well convinced that fantasy football is ruining real football at a pretty good clip. At least in my mind the league's changes to the game rules to pump up offense can be linked to all the fantasy football money sloshing around .
I don't mean when individuals play among themselves in small leagues but the weekly nationwide leagues .
Whats the Vig on these sites? If you can't find out what the take is what the payouts are and what the houses cut is then I'm going out on a limb and guessing the whole thing is a giant fraud.
Who says the big winners are real human beings and not just a work of fiction? Do they have last names and addresses?
<< <i>Whats the Vig on these sites? If you can't find out what the take is what the payouts are and what the houses cut is then I'm going out on a limb and guessing the whole thing is a giant fraud.
Who says the big winners are real human beings and not just a work of fiction? Do they have last names and addresses? >>
No different than state lotteries. The vig changes as admin salaries go up. Change the odds and you control the game.
Why does a state employee that runs lotto deserve half a mil a year and guaranteed pension benefits? The rake is huge.
The winners are real, the investigation is toward book insider trading essentially from what I gathered.
Its a huge numbers game regarding statistical info going far outside simple numbers that you read about.
<< <i>What Im hearing and it might be false info but I guess that the big winners are getting sensitive info about players from people inside the NFL, stuff that injury reports and legit sports radio/tv dont know about.
Its a huge numbers game regarding statistical info going far outside simple numbers that you read about. >>
I haven't caught up but if folks are pushing that RICO territory this could get interesting quick. The angle I saw was about knowing the heavy bets and placing coordinating bets ATS essentially. That's a whole different ballgame, so to speak, than having other inside info that precludes collusion.
<< <i>So from what I gather, these insiders select players that the vast majority don't select, create multiple teams based on those numbers and hope to win the big one while making a profit anyway? >>
That's about it. The funny thing is, you don't need to be an insider, just avoid the players that are hyped by the DFS 'experts' publishing weekly articles. Every single one was pushing Karlos Williams last week and Todd Gurley this week. Guess who's going to be in a lot of lineups?
Erik
He wouldnt have that problem had he made MLB some coin
<< <i>I have friends who stay up nights, study stats, matchups, performances in night vs day games, all kinds of field conditions, etc and make thousands per year on these sites. Not life changing money, but a good amount of play money. Like anything in life, you get out of it what you put into it....sometimes. These sites rake in the cash because people just play their favorites and don't do their research. There's always a goofball standing on 16 when the dealer is showing a face card......unless that's the smart goofball enduring the chastising and counting cards >>
If people are putting that much time in to win only a few thousand then they are working at a very dull job for less than minimum wage. Working really hard to provide cover for a bunch of con men and getting peanuts for it.
The big winners , if they aren't completely fictional , are probably connectable back to insiders that up to now were a bit smarter than the moron who got caught last week. They probably had the sense to at least have their nephews and cousins take the big payouts.
The fact that the various real leagues and assorted team owners are neck deep in it doesn't pass the smell test . I'd like to see the whole rotten mess come down now before they make any more fantasy related rule changes to NFL football at least , it's getting to be too much like college football every day. The 40 -32 games are boring enough thank you , lets just reverse course now and not continue on until they are all 78-65 or thereabouts.
If the fantasy leagues get busted up then the sports nerds might need to learn how to play dungeons and dragons to scratch that itch.
<< <i>So there is an all-sports wide point shaving (or pumping) scheme? i can actually see that. Not just Jimmy the Gent and Boston College anymore. Websites, agents, teams, players, coaches all in cahoots. Would definitely shed more light on why my Tigers and Lions suck this year.... Or at least the MNF call this past week!! >>
Just have the league legislate away the defense to push scores up in general. Fantasy players don't want 3-0 games right?
The best cons are where the lambs line up and slaughter themselves willingly and thats why these two companies have been raking in so much dough. The whole area of online gaming is one where the participants show an embarrassing lack of self control and common sense in general. These 2 companies are hiding behind the idea that its not gambling because ...Skill ?
Since its obviously gambling , sports gambling to be precise, there is no way that team owners or the NFL itself being involved should pass anyone's smell test.
<< <i>I doubt anyone would try to say poker isn't gambling after all and skill is involved in that . >>
I would.
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<< <i>I doubt anyone would try to say poker isn't gambling after all and skill is involved in that . >>
I would. >>
Sorry , meant in a legal sense its considered gambling . I'm not aware of anyplace that holds casino or sports betting to be illegal that doesn't put poker under the same definition.
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<< <i>I doubt anyone would try to say poker isn't gambling after all and skill is involved in that . >>
I would. >>
Sorry , meant in a legal sense its considered gambling . I'm not aware of anyplace that holds casino or sports betting to be illegal that doesn't put poker under the same definition. >>
PPA is working on getting it legally defined as a skill game, but currently you're correct.
This concept that somehow knowing the percentages of players drafted is an advantage is a complete crock. I've been playing DraftKings for 3 years, and by now, I can usually guess within a few percentage points of % ownership of a particular player. Having the player that is only 2% drafted only becomes an advantage when that player goes off. 9 times out of 10, the player that only 2% drafted does not return value. If you didn't draft Karlos Williams, you missed out on a guy that gave you 5x value, and now you are behind the 50% of the people that picked him.
All that said, anyone that doesn't equate DFS to online poker is just plain ignorant. Just because the Unlawful Internet Gaming Act specifically allows fantasy sports because it was written before these sites existed, doesn't mean DFS isn't gambling. It is. You are placing money on an outcome over which you have no control. IMO, poker is WAY more a game of skill than fantasy football. If poker is gambling, so is DFS.
There will be a major push to outlaw DFS. The NFL will back DFS at all costs, because it knows without them, the NFL will have fewer eyeballs every weekend, and the sport takes a step back in the ratings, meaning they lose some advertising revenue.
<< <i><<<That's about it. The funny thing is, you don't need to be an insider, just avoid the players that are hyped by the DFS 'experts' publishing weekly articles. Every single one was pushing Karlos Williams last week and Todd Gurley this week. Guess who's going to be in a lot of lineups?>>>
This concept that somehow knowing the percentages of players drafted is an advantage is a complete crock. I've been playing DraftKings for 3 years, and by now, I can usually guess within a few percentage points of % ownership of a particular player. Having the player that is only 2% drafted only becomes an advantage when that player goes off. 9 times out of 10, the player that only 2% drafted does not return value. If you didn't draft Karlos Williams, you missed out on a guy that gave you 5x value, and now you are behind the 50% of the people that picked him.
All that said, anyone that doesn't equate DFS to online poker is just plain ignorant. Just because the Unlawful Internet Gaming Act specifically allows fantasy sports because it was written before these sites existed, doesn't mean DFS isn't gambling. It is. You are placing money on an outcome over which you have no control. IMO, poker is WAY more a game of skill than fantasy football. If poker is gambling, so is DFS.
There will be a major push to outlaw DFS. The NFL will back DFS at all costs, because it knows without them, the NFL will have fewer eyeballs every weekend, and the sport takes a step back in the ratings, meaning they lose some advertising revenue. >>
Well stated.
It's ironic how intertwined gambling has become with professional football, too. IMO, it is the primary reason for its huge popularity in society today. Even the group of 10-12 guys who play fantasy football every year are gambling to an extent because they pay a league "entry fee" (with rare exceptions), though I will say as someone who has been playing fantasy football for well over a decade, but never Fan Duel or Draft Kings, that competition and bragging rights are a huge part of the appeal to private leagues vs these other sites, which are more akin to straight sports gambling, imo. .
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The latest development , Nevada has ordered them both to shut down in that state
this is going to be interesting
If they apply for a gambling license in Nevada , its hard to see how they can tell other states that its not gambling.
Another point, to get a gambling license in Nevada they would probably need to open the books up and that's a problem obviously because its all fraud top to bottom .
<< <i>Off topic but what really annoys me is the fact that they have the multi entries, all it takes is a person with thousands of dollars to bump into multiple entries with tons of different combinations at $20 a whack to better his chances at the million dollar top prize >>
If all of the spots are bought, then one person entering "tons" of times would be a losing proposition (in the long run), and it doesn't affect your odds. One person with 10,000 entries is the same as 10,000 people with 1 entry each.
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<< <i>Off topic but what really annoys me is the fact that they have the multi entries, all it takes is a person with thousands of dollars to bump into multiple entries with tons of different combinations at $20 a whack to better his chances at the million dollar top prize >>
If all of the spots are bought, then one person entering "tons" of times would be a losing proposition (in the long run), and it doesn't affect your odds. One person with 10,000 entries is the same as 10,000 people with 1 entry each. >>
Your wrong, 10k people will not have every position covered the same way one person would.
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<< <i>Off topic but what really annoys me is the fact that they have the multi entries, all it takes is a person with thousands of dollars to bump into multiple entries with tons of different combinations at $20 a whack to better his chances at the million dollar top prize >>
If all of the spots are bought, then one person entering "tons" of times would be a losing proposition (in the long run), and it doesn't affect your odds. One person with 10,000 entries is the same as 10,000 people with 1 entry each. >>
As an avid DFS player, I will not even respond to the stupidity posted already other than this one. I do not consider myself to be a professional fantasy player but in the sense that Draftkings and FanDuel defines a professional player, I guess I am.
Any way, the simple way to maximize chances in daily fantasy I will use DK's millionaire maker as an example. Cost $20 to get in and pays $1.2 million for first (paid $2 million opening weekend). Doesn't take a whole lot of analysis to know which teams have weak run or pass defenses. Then you just have to plug in RBs, WRs and TEs that logic tells you will go off that weekend. You take a simple list of 5-6 running backs, 10-12 wide receivers and 4-5 tight ends. QBs are even easier so you can narrow it down to 3-4 each weekend. You then assign a letter or number to each player. I use a total of 26 players not counting defenses so each letter of the alphabet can be used. There are plenty of programs available that will give you the different combinations of letters (players). Obviously that gives you enough combinations that would exceed the logic of playing them all if you wanted to do so but it's also easier to eliminate certain combinations. You can then take the most logical (in your mind) 1000 combinations of those 26 players. Enter all 1000 lineups at $20 a pop and you are only in $20,000. May sound risky to some but a significant portion of those lineups is going to cash, some bigger than others. If you happen to win the tops prize with one of those 1000 lineups, you can safely assume that many others will cash too. Recent example was I believe 2 weeks ago. The winner of the millionaire maker also finished 5th and 10th with about 20 other cashes.
This is not an assumption. This is how it works. Just like in the old days of online poker, the pros won consistently and the average Joe who thought he had a chance to hit it big was the fish. Daily fantasy is no different. If you don't take the time to study stats, you are going to get beat on a regular basis. Just like poker, Average Joe is going to get lucky every now and then but in the long haul he is going to lose. Fantasy sports are no different.
<< <i>If all of the spots are bought, then one person entering "tons" of times would be a losing proposition (in the long run), and it doesn't affect your odds. One person with 10,000 entries is the same as 10,000 people with 1 entry each. >>
<< <i>Your wrong, 10k people will not have every position covered the same way one person would. >>
No, you're assuming that 1 person with 10,000 entries definitely has "better" entries than 10,000 people with 1 entry each. That doesn't have to be the case. "Covering every position" does not improve your odds, money wise. Do you know what would happen if someone bought EVERY entry? They'd definitely lose money.
BTW, it's "you're".
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<< <i>If all of the spots are bought, then one person entering "tons" of times would be a losing proposition (in the long run), and it doesn't affect your odds. One person with 10,000 entries is the same as 10,000 people with 1 entry each. >>
<< <i>Your wrong, 10k people will not have every position covered the same way one person would. >>
No, you're assuming that 1 person with 10,000 entries definitely has "better" entries than 10,000 people with 1 entry each. That doesn't have to be the case. "Covering every position" does not improve your odds, money wise. Do you know what would happen if someone bought EVERY entry? They'd definitely lose money.
BTW, it's "you're". >>
Covering every position certainly increases your odds. Im not so sure why you are making this so difficult, if one guy puts in 200 different entries he has a better shot than a guy who puts in just 1 entry, why you are not understanding this baffles me.
BTW Im not interested in a spelling lesson, so dont waste your time.
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<< <i>If all of the spots are bought, then one person entering "tons" of times would be a losing proposition (in the long run), and it doesn't affect your odds. One person with 10,000 entries is the same as 10,000 people with 1 entry each. >>
<< <i>Your wrong, 10k people will not have every position covered the same way one person would. >>
No, you're assuming that 1 person with 10,000 entries definitely has "better" entries than 10,000 people with 1 entry each. That doesn't have to be the case. "Covering every position" does not improve your odds, money wise. Do you know what would happen if someone bought EVERY entry? They'd definitely lose money.
BTW, it's "you're". >>
Again you're wrong for the same reason most of the other posters here are wrong, simple lack of knowledge. You go ahead and make one lineup for this weekend and I assure you my 500 lineups will make more profit.
<< <i>If all of the spots are bought, then one person entering "tons" of times would be a losing proposition (in the long run), and it doesn't affect your odds. One person with 10,000 entries is the same as 10,000 people with 1 entry each. >>
As an avid DFS player, I will not even respond to the stupidity posted already other than this one. I do not consider myself to be a professional fantasy player but in the sense that Draftkings and FanDuel defines a professional player, I guess I am.
Any way, the simple way to maximize chances in daily fantasy I will use DK's millionaire maker as an example. Cost $20 to get in and pays $1.2 million for first (paid $2 million opening weekend). Doesn't take a whole lot of analysis to know which teams have weak run or pass defenses. Then you just have to plug in RBs, WRs and TEs that logic tells you will go off that weekend. You take a simple list of 5-6 running backs, 10-12 wide receivers and 4-5 tight ends. QBs are even easier so you can narrow it down to 3-4 each weekend. You then assign a letter or number to each player. I use a total of 26 players not counting defenses so each letter of the alphabet can be used. There are plenty of programs available that will give you the different combinations of letters (players). Obviously that gives you enough combinations that would exceed the logic of playing them all if you wanted to do so but it's also easier to eliminate certain combinations. You can then take the most logical (in your mind) 1000 combinations of those 26 players. Enter all 1000 lineups at $20 a pop and you are only in $20,000. May sound risky to some but a significant portion of those lineups is going to cash, some bigger than others. If you happen to win the tops prize with one of those 1000 lineups, you can safely assume that many others will cash too. Recent example was I believe 2 weeks ago. The winner of the millionaire maker also finished 5th and 10th with about 20 other cashes.
This is not an assumption. This is how it works. Just like in the old days of online poker, the pros won consistently and the average Joe who thought he had a chance to hit it big was the fish. Daily fantasy is no different. If you don't take the time to study stats, you are going to get beat on a regular basis. Just like poker, Average Joe is going to get lucky every now and then but in the long haul he is going to lose. Fantasy sports are no different. >>
Wrong. Of course some people ARE making money with some consistency, but it's because they are better at picking players than most. It's NOT their strategy of picking combinations and playing many entries. Everyone would be doing the same thing if that were true, including me.
What if there was one $10 contest each day for 1,000 days and you could only enter each contest once? Those same people would be the people making money. They would win due to their knowledge, not because of any "combination system."
<< <i>Covering every position certainly increases your odds. Im not so sure why you are making this so difficult, if one guy puts in 200 different entries he has a better shot than a guy who puts in just 1 entry, why you are not understanding this baffles me.
>>
Geez. *Of course* it increases the odds of winning, just like you increase your odds of winning the lottery with multiple entries. You're arguing about something completely different though.
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Wrong. Of course some people ARE making money with some consistency, but it's because they are better at picking players than most. It's NOT their strategy of picking combinations and playing many entries. Everyone would be doing the same thing if that were true, including me.
What if there was one $10 contest each day for 1,000 days and you could only enter each contest once? Those same people would be the people making money. They would win due to their knowledge, not because of any "combination system." >>
Did you even read what I said or is this a comprehension issue? Once again, what I posted is fact and not an assumption. Draftkings main purpose of their commercials is to make casual fans think they can deposit $100 and be a millionaire by Monday night. Less knowledgeable people, like yourself, fall for it and don't realize they are playing against people that do this for living. When they find out, they whine and find an attorney because they didn't realize they were entering a tournament once or twice but playing against 1000's of pros with a 1000 entries.
<< <i>Again you're wrong for the same reason most of the other posters here are wrong, simple lack of knowledge. You go ahead and make one lineup for this weekend and I assure you my 500 lineups will make more profit. >>
That's obviously not true, because my 1 entry could win the grand prize.
$1 per entry, 501 entries, $450 in total prizes ($300 for 1st, $100 for 2nd, $50 for 3rd). The rake is $51.
I pay for 1 entry, and you pay for 500.
If I finish 1st, I make $299 profit, and you lose $350 (you paid $500 and won back $150).
Are you more likely to win ONE contest? Yes. But, if our knowledge is the same we would likely win an equal amount of money if we entered 1,000,000 such contests the same way.
EDIT: Actually, I would win more money due to the rake. If the rake was $0, then it would be equal.
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Did you even read what I said or is this a comprehension issue? Once again, what I posted is fact and not an assumption. Draftkings main purpose of their commercials is to make casual fans think they can deposit $100 and be a millionaire by Monday night.
>>
When did I ever disagree with that? Try and stick to the topic.
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<< <i>
Did you even read what I said or is this a comprehension issue? Once again, what I posted is fact and not an assumption. Draftkings main purpose of their commercials is to make casual fans think they can deposit $100 and be a millionaire by Monday night.
>>
When did I ever disagree with that? Try and stick to the topic. >>
Guess I was correct. It's a comprehension issue.
<< <i>Guess I was correct. It's a comprehension issue. >>
If you're ever able to comprehend it, let me know.
I'm still waiting for your response to this. You said you were assured to win when you have 500 entries and I have 1.
$1 per entry, 501 entries, $450 in total prizes ($300 for 1st, $100 for 2nd, $50 for 3rd). The rake is $51.
I pay for 1 entry, and you pay for 500.
If I finish 1st, I make $299 profit, and you lose $350 (you paid $500 and won back $150).
Still assured that you'll win? lol. Go ahead, do the math for a million contests like this and tell me who wins more money in the long run, if we're equally good at picking players.
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<< <i>Guess I was correct. It's a comprehension issue. >>
If you're ever able to comprehend it, let me know.
I'm still waiting for your response to this. You said you were assured to win when you have 500 entries and I have 1.
$1 per entry, 501 entries, $450 in total prizes ($300 for 1st, $100 for 2nd, $50 for 3rd). The rake is $51.
I pay for 1 entry, and you pay for 500.
If I finish 1st, I make $299 profit, and you lose $350 (you paid $500 and won back $150).
Still assured that you'll win? lol. Go ahead, do the math for a million contests like this and tell me who wins more money in the long run, if we're equally good at picking players. >>
No one that plays "professionally" gets in a $1 tournament and none of the high prize pool tournaments have only 500 entries they are usually in the 50,000+ range for the low end high prize pool ones. And you are still missing the point. IF lightning strikes and you only enter once and IF you win.
<< <i>No one that plays "professionally" gets in a $1 tournament and none of the high prize pool tournaments have only 500 entries they are usually in the 50,000+ range for the low end high prize pool ones. And you are still missing the point. IF lightning strikes and you only enter once and IF you win. >>
Yup, I'm very unlikely to win if we only do one contest. As I said, run the numbers for a million such contests. I'll win 1 of every ~501 of them. See who wins more money in the long run. Go ahead.
<< <i>And just for reference since you continue to argue about a topic which you obviously no zero about, the Millionaire maker is capped at 400,750 entries >>
I obviously know more than you. 400,750 entries at $20 each = $8,150,000.
They pay $7,000,000 in prizes.
Go ahead, buy every entry and see how much money you win! lol.
I'll await your apology.
error
Pretty safe assumption they had a ton of lineups and have a lot of money put in from the jump.
Could you win with only a couple of lineups.....sure. That's the lure.
This guy won $1mil with one entry.
https://www.fanduel.com/insider/2015/09/23/how-one-day-fantasy-changed-a-mans-life/
Players that have many entries likely have overall better skill than the players with one entry, so there's probably no doubt that they win the majority of the contests. And if they comprise more than 50% of all the entries, then it's even more likely.
If I felt that I had the best skills, I would enter many times too. By entering many times, there would more chances for the cream to rise to the top. If I knew that everyone had equal skills as me, then I would enter just once, because of the rake.
Being on the Fraud-duel site I would assume its more of an ad than an unbiased account.
I won't believe its legit unless I see his tax return. Even then I'll assume he is a relative of someone connected with the company.
To be safe I find its best to start with the assumption that everything on the internet is a scam .
I call it the ashley madison rule.
Is it true or not....I have no idea. I know it's in their best interest to show that so the "average Joe' keeps putting the money in.