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SP70 Gold Mercury advice

Hello forum friends,

This is my first "70" graded coin, a PCGS SP70 2016 Gold Mercury Dime. I must admit, this is brand new collecting territory for me, as I usually focus on "classic" coins in the AU through MS64 grades. I wanted one of these dimes, but missed out on the Mint's initial release. It's a nice coin but not perfect. I noticed one very small planchet flaw or some kind of tiny depression in the left reverse field. I hastily scanned the coin, and pointed out the location in the second image. The naked eye reveals a tiny, barely noticeable pin-size "dot", but under magnification, I see a small, shallow cavity.

Is this an acceptable flaw for a SP70?
Am I being too picky?
Thanks


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Comments

  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,580 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Every time you look at that coin the spot will get bigger. You want that??
  • segojasegoja Posts: 6,112 ✭✭✭✭
    That coin would most likely not get a QA Check sticker with that issue. Also looks like you have some rim issues at 11 O'Clock
    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

    image
  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The beauty of these are they are so close to the price of raw now; happy to have mine, so that you can rinse and repeat till you get the gem.
    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not even BELIEVE I collected coins in the 1970s. image
  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    sell it and get another. i got 6 ms70's on a submission and only one looked good to me.
  • earlycoinsearlycoins Posts: 282 ✭✭✭
    There is no difference between a 69 and a 70. It's all down to the grader's mood, the relationship with family members, and what they consumed for lunch.

    Same thing with autographed slips, Early or First Release, and the myriad of different labels.

    In the scheme of things, it all means naught.

    And that's being said by a huge fan of PCGS.

    Regardless of the grade, the label, or anything else, these pieces are merely pretty bullion.

    Just get a 69 and enjoy.
  • veryfineveryfine Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the input.

    I could always return or exchange it, but then I run the risk of getting another flawed coin. Normally, this kind of minuscule imperfection would never bother me, but I'm guessing the 70 grade should be absolutely perfect.
    The problem is, what exactly does "perfect" mean and is mine perfect enough?

    segoja,
    I think the scan amplified some reflections in that rim area, I examined it again, and the rim looks clean.
  • ambro51ambro51 Posts: 13,580 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How about returning that and then buying one at a coin show after you take a good loupe to it. There is no scarcity here. If You want the perfection you seek you must search coins in hand.
  • BullsitterBullsitter Posts: 5,320 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: earlycoins
    There is no difference between a 69 and a 70.



    image

  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: veryfine

    ...........Is this an acceptable flaw for a SP70?

    Am I being too picky?

    Thanks







    IMHO, no it is not acceptable. But I have seen far worse in the modern 70 game. Far worse.



  • OnedollarnohollarOnedollarnohollar Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭
    They must be hiring new, less qualified, graders. I would think they'd be much more discerning when assigning a grade like 70. Unless of course there's no time allotted per coin to truly be critical in their analysis. Whatever the reason, there's no way that's a 70. Like someone else said, sell it, then go to a show with a good loupe and find a cherry for your collection.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    With the naked eye, I am not sure that would be immediately obvious.... of course, now that you know it is there, it will ALWAYS be visible - to you - so, you may as well go to a show and buy a 70 that you are happy with 'in hand'... your present coin will sell easily. Cheers, RickO
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS defines a 70 as no flaws visible with 5X magnification. I'm guessing this flaw was missed by the PCGS grader.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: PerryHall

    PCGS defines a 70 as no flaws visible with 5X magnification. I'm guessing this flaw was missed by the PCGS grader.






    image



    So you have a 69 in a 70 holder. Could be worse. Enjoy the coin.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: veryfine

    Thanks for the input.



    I could always return or exchange it, but then I run the risk of getting another flawed coin. Normally, this kind of minuscule imperfection would never bother me, but I'm guessing the 70 grade should be absolutely perfect.

    The problem is, what exactly does "perfect" mean and is mine perfect enough?



    segoja,

    I think the scan amplified some reflections in that rim area, I examined it again, and the rim looks clean.




    Don't return it. They're sold out and you'll only get a refund from the mint. Suggest that you sell it on the BST and use the money to buy another coin.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭✭✭
    With the bands being struck so poorly on all of these dimes, none of them should get a 70! image
  • But they're correct in not grading it SP70FB
    I love the 3 P's: PB&J, PBR and PCGS.
  • CommemKingCommemKing Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Man. Every one of those I have seen is mushy as hell. What horrible strikes! Cant even get full bands on pure gold?
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: VanHalen
    Originally posted by: veryfine
    ...........Is this an acceptable flaw for a SP70?
    Am I being too picky?
    Thanks



    IMHO, no it is not acceptable. But I have seen far worse in the modern 70 game. Far worse.



    Same here! image
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have two MS70 graded coins. One absolutely is a 70, but the other...
    Well I call it a 67. VERY disappointing. image
  • veryfineveryfine Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭
    Some excellent advice, and thanks again to all who chimed in.
    I bought the coin because I like the design in gold, and although it's not perfect, I'm probably going to keep it. Returns with insurance add up to excessive shipping charges anyway, and yes, I could always sell it. The difference in price between 69, 70 and OGP is not that great.

    The good news is that I learned a very valuable lesson. Not all 70s are flawless, and some are much nicer than others. I assumed at this level that grading would be more consistent and extra-tight, considering its lofty status. However, all humans make mistakes, even the best of the best.

    Another thought just popped into my head; what if, at some point, I decide to send it to PCGS, and they agree that it is, in fact, overgraded? Would I be reimbursed at the current market value?
  • pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,503 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: veryfine
    Some excellent advice, and thanks again to all who chimed in.
    I bought the coin because I like the design in gold, and although it's not perfect, I'm probably going to keep it. Returns with insurance add up to excessive shipping charges anyway, and yes, I could always sell it. The difference in price between 69, 70 and OGP is not that great.

    The good news is that I learned a very valuable lesson. Not all 70s are flawless, and some are much nicer than others. I assumed at this level that grading would be more consistent and extra-tight, considering its lofty status. However, all humans make mistakes, even the best of the best.

    Another thought just popped into my head; what if, at some point, I decide to send it to PCGS, and they agree that it is, in fact, overgraded? Would I be reimbursed at the current market value?


    I remember the days when David Hall would do Presidential Reviews of coins suspect of not being a 70 grade. Once, I sent in one coin and he agreed with me. He doesn't do that anymore.

    Not sure how it works today. I am sure someone will chime in.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,118 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These small dings are not uncommon on new mint gold and often get past the graders. Happens more across the street.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: earlycoins
    There is no difference between a 69 and a 70. It's all down to the grader's mood, the relationship with family members, and what they consumed for lunch.

    Same thing with autographed slips, Early or First Release, and the myriad of different labels.

    In the scheme of things, it all means naught.

    And that's being said by a huge fan of PCGS.

    Regardless of the grade, the label, or anything else, these pieces are merely pretty bullion.

    Just get a 69 and enjoy.


    THIS!
  • veryfineveryfine Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭
    So the seller might be able to do an exchange for another coin in the exact same grade, PCGS SP70.
    My concern is that I could easily get another one with a different flaw, or worse yet, a more obvious problem.

    Do any of you go back and forth with shipping charges, exchanges until you get the "perfect" coin. I don't mean to harp on the subject too much, but your opinions are very helpful.
    Again, I'm new to the world of modern mint 70 grades.
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,649 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe the coin in SP70FS is selling on ebay for about $245. Meanwhile a raw coin is worth about $230 right now. So, this discussion involves about $15 and I think that is relevant to the decisions and strategies on shipping coins back and forth in the mail, etc. I buy these dimes sight-unseen in SP70FS and have from board members already. I do not even look at what comes into me. What's the point when a total of $15 is involved?

    As always, just my two cents.

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As Wondercoin suggested, these are generic coins selling sight-unseen. MS70 is only flawless in theory on the Sheldon scale, not for TPG graded coins. Consider it another grading level better than MS69. I've never seen an MS70 graded coin that I couldn't find a flaw on with a 5X glass. Doesn't matter to me if it's a mint made flaw from the planchet/striking process or abuse seen after being struck. It's still a flaw.



    These are likely produced via the bulk grading process, with a min grade of MS69 or MS70. So the more MS70's that get graded, the more the TPG and the submitter make. Wondercoin sees more of these coins than about anyone other than the TPG graders. And since he says there are truly "flawless" coins out there, then I would believe him.



    Find the best MS70 you can find. There will always be one nicer than the best one you can find. MS70.999 is flawless. Still waiting to personally see one of those. image
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • veryfineveryfine Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭
    Thanks wondercoin and roadrunner,

    Your comments really helped legitimize my initial thoughts. For me, the MS/PF/SP69 vs 70 or 70.99999 game is driving me BONKERS!
    I gave the 70 grade a try, which resulted in neurotic magnification at fifty different angles and multiple light sources. Getting caught up in this micro-inspection completely kills the fun of collecting.
    From now on, I'll stick with the raw/69 grades for moderns and AU-MS64 for the good ole classic coins.

    I appreciate the free therapy session.
  • 53BKid53BKid Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭
    The irony is that the mint with a little more attention to detail could have done a much better job. I wonder if they even evaluate the coins before they're packaged.

    Does little to ensure confidence in their quality control.
    HAPPY COLLECTING!!!
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: PerryHall
    Originally posted by: veryfine
    Thanks for the input.

    I could always return or exchange it, but then I run the risk of getting another flawed coin. Normally, this kind of minuscule imperfection would never bother me, but I'm guessing the 70 grade should be absolutely perfect.
    The problem is, what exactly does "perfect" mean and is mine perfect enough?

    segoja,
    I think the scan amplified some reflections in that rim area, I examined it again, and the rim looks clean.


    Don't return it. They're sold out and you'll only get a refund from the mint. Suggest that you sell it on the BST and use the money to buy another coin.


    It is in PCGS holder, would return from where they purchased it from.

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This discussion helps me better understand why I would barely pay a bit above spot for a gold 70 grade and just at spot for a Spouse in 70.
    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,649 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "MS70.999 is flawless"

    I agree RR, although many don't.

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,649 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "This discussion helps me better understand why I would barely pay a bit above spot for a gold 70 grade and just at spot for a Spouse in 70."

    There are some modern gold coins where a true MS70 grade is remarkable for that coin. Take an earlier date Mint State $50 Gold Eagle such as 1994. I believe I've seen one example in 20+ years. Then, there is a Gold Mercury dime where the majority of every coin struck by the Mint was knocking on the door of SP70 and perhaps 1/5 of the coins were solid SP70 quality.

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.

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