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12 new coin graders added in last year
dbtunr
Posts: 614 ✭✭✭
The 10K annual report from CLCT filed with the SEC yesterday indicates they have 36 coin graders with an avg of 12 years of experience vs 24 coin graders and 28 years of experience last year. So it looks like there was some turnover (doing the math on years of experience) but 12 new heads have been brought on. In addition, total headcount is now 302 vs 290 last year.
Hopefully this will help lower turnaround times in the coming months as these folks get up to speed.
Hopefully this will help lower turnaround times in the coming months as these folks get up to speed.
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Is that 12 for the overseas divisions or 12 in California?
10K does not break that out but CEO on Conf Call last night said they now have permanent graders in China, so yes, some of these are overseas. Even so, it helps them stop ferrying US graders to overseas and back which is a non-productive use of time. I suspect they can start with the Chinese Mint coins and seek help on the Vintage coins.
Is that 12 for the overseas divisions or 12 in California?
Apparently, these new graders in the last 12 months have made an impact. The turnaround times have definitely been trending one direction in the last year.
They are also grading 50% more coins than last year with the additional 50% new graders. Factor that in.
I hope they catch up; I sent NGC an early bird that arrived on the 25th and it is in quality control, almost shipped out. Why is there such a disparity between the two in turn arounds?
Because PCGS is doing way more coins than NGC now. PCGS changed their Modern pricing in 2016 to capture market share from NGC and it worked. Before, NGC had 70% of the Modern market. Now it is 50/50. PCGS has 70% of the Vintage market.
I'd bet ICG and ANACS have even faster turnaround times.
Apparently, these new graders in the last 12 months have made an impact. The turnaround times have definitely been trending one direction in the last year.
They are also grading 50% more coins than last year with the additional 50% new graders. Factor that in.
50% more coins with 50% more graders at 200% the normal time to grade... Hmmmmm, something just does not add up...
Is that 12 for the overseas divisions or 12 in California?
10K does not break that out but CEO on Conf Call last night said they now have permanent graders in China, so yes, some of these are overseas. Even so, it helps them stop ferrying US graders to overseas and back which is a non-productive use of time. I suspect they can start with the Chinese Mint coins and seek help on the Vintage coins.
It will be a real shame to see them lose the American market because of efforts to focus on China.
They are not grading the same amount of money making coins with 6 weeks turnaround on regular submissions. Clearly the market did not like their earning report, down another 6% today, on top of the 10% 2 weeks ago. If there is not an immediate turnaround, this will be sub $15 soon. DB is always trying to spin this, but he forgets he is talking to the paying customers, who are not going to pay full price for a cheap service level.
paying customers, who are not going to pay full price for a cheap service level.
Today is business day #23 for my current Regular Service order, which involves free vouchers I received after two earlier orders had errors on either the coin date or the variety and I had to send them back for correction at my expense. This experience has obliterated the value of Regular Service for me.
More graders with less experience leads to more variability in the grading. That might support more grading revenues and cut the back log. But, the net product could change.
CLCT chart
The US Mint, the China Mint and to a lesser degree the other mints cranking out modern coins for collectors are not doing the hobby any favors. When a coin is specially struck and from that moment forward is handled and packaged with extra care and never intended for circulation is it really a coin or more just a collectable? Some day the people who buy this dreck will realize they've been had. The fact that the coin is encapsulated just creates one more party to be unhappy with.
I hope they catch up; I sent NGC an early bird that arrived on the 25th and it is in quality control, almost shipped out. Why is there such a disparity between the two in turn arounds?
Because PCGS is doing way more coins than NGC now. PCGS changed their Modern pricing in 2016 to capture market share from NGC and it worked. Before, NGC had 70% of the Modern market. Now it is 50/50. PCGS has 70% of the Vintage market.
I'd bet ICG and ANACS have even faster turnaround times.
ICG,Anacs , NGC don't mean hoot .. PCGS was paid to deliver a service at their set price... they manage it .... 50 ,100 more graders what difference does it make ..just grade coins at advertised time .. when will PCGs deliver what they advertise and what Buyers pay for their tier of service ?
I hope they catch up; I sent NGC an early bird that arrived on the 25th and it is in quality control, almost shipped out. Why is there such a disparity between the two in turn arounds?
Because PCGS is doing way more coins than NGC now. PCGS changed their Modern pricing in 2016 to capture market share from NGC and it worked. Before, NGC had 70% of the Modern market. Now it is 50/50. PCGS has 70% of the Vintage market.
I'd bet ICG and ANACS have even faster turnaround times.
ICG,Anacs , NGC don't mean hoot .. PCGS was paid to deliver a service at their set price... they manage it .... 50 ,100 more graders what difference does it make ..just grade coins at advertised time .. when will PCGs deliver what they advertise and what Buyers pay for their tier of service ?
OOPS! I meant the other one!
Not sure, but some of them might have had to go back to NGC for remedial training.
That was a cheap shot. Funny, but perhaps skirting into dangerous territory.
(Rule 1, Rule 7. I've been Willis-spanked for less. Beware, is all I'm suggesting.)
Average years of experience would obviously have dropped with the departure of Miles (who had close to 30 years I would suppose). Just saying ...
Wondercoin
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
The US Mint, the China Mint and to a lesser degree the other mints cranking out modern coins for collectors are not doing the hobby any favors. When a coin is specially struck and from that moment forward is handled and packaged with extra care and never intended for circulation is it really a coin or more just a collectable? Some day the people who buy this dreck will realize they've been had. The fact that the coin is encapsulated just creates one more party to be unhappy with.
Oh I dunno, the difference between 69 and 70 can be tricky-- It takes a real expert to tell one from the other
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It's not like they can call up Manpower or Kelly Temps and get the backlog filled. Plus they hire for the long term, most companies have a probationary period. It's sink or swim. I'm curious what the retention rate is, must be a pressure cooker at times to fulfill all the responsibilities, keep the trains running on time, get all the ducks in a row, and juggle all the complex (breakable) balls in an orderly fashion....
When I ran into an ex-grader at a local coin shop the word was a lot of stress and the pay was not enough to raise a family in Orange County.
I remember him saying he was going to Texas.
EAC 6024
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
Many of those include graders working out of international locations and part time graders. The number of full time graders who grade "on the line" in Santa Ana is much lower than that.
It's amazing how we get info around here. A little info from the company would sure be nice.
Not sure, but some of them might have had to go back to NGC for remedial training.
That was a cheap shot. Funny, but perhaps skirting into dangerous territory.
(Rule 1, Rule 7. I've been Willis-spanked for less. Beware, is all I'm suggesting.)
"Remedial training" was a tongue in cheek statement, initially adopted with my time, in service. No harm intended.
That being said, if turnaround times are causing you problems, don't post it here -- call them directly. If they hear from enough valued customers, they will respond.
It's got to be a great job for the best eyes.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
would you rather have your coins graded properly --- or --- back to you within a specified time?? PCGS does deliver what they advertise, you just read some kind of "guarantee" or "carved in stone" time into what they clearly state if you go to the submission center. I prefer to have PCGS grade my coins so I send them to PCGS and wait for them to get graded.
back around 2003-4 this same thing was taking place. at that time many submitters were opting for NGC because they were grading coins faster and submitters could "FLIP" them faster. the only problem,acknowledged by pretty much everyone at the time, was that NGC graded approximately one point high and the market for same grade/same coin paid less for the NGC holder. that made it a wash or a loss for the NGC submitters but speeded things up for guys like me who stayed with PCGS. I think I should suggest that now, but it seems like a fools errand to take that route, better to just be patient and enjoy the wait.