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Is my 1840-O Half Eagle a Broad Mill?

Bought it on message board a long time ago.
Seller said it might be a broad mill.
Always wondered, but can never find side by side pictures to compare.
Still curious.

Thanks in Advance

David

image

Comments

  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK,i will ask. What is a broad mill?
  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: grip
    OK,i will ask. What is a broad mill?


    Beat me to it.
    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: cmerlo1
    Originally posted by: grip
    OK,i will ask. What is a broad mill?


    Beat me to it.




    Maybe it's another word for broad struck.
  • IwantNonCCsIwantNonCCs Posts: 369 ✭✭
    I can't cut and paste right now out of coinfacts, but it refers to a coin of 22.5mm diameter matching the 1839 half eagle instead of 21.8-22.0mm of later half eagles. Plus some other tell-tale die characteristics I have a hard time deciphering without side by side comparison.

    It looks like my mintmark is above the "VE" of Five and not above the "V" of Five, which would knock out die 3, but unsure how to eliminate die two.

    1840-O Half Eagle Coin Facts.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm pretty certain that it is a narrow mill just worn down at the rims to make it look a bit "broad". The 40-O broad mill is rare but the 40-P is a bit more available. Take one look at a 40-P broad mill and the difference is clear.

  • IwantNonCCsIwantNonCCs Posts: 369 ✭✭
    Thank you. Guess the only real difference is the actual coin diameter? I wrongly assumed it had to do with the width of the border around the design.

    David
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The broad mill issues do have a wider-looking rim. They are also slightly larger in overall diameter. When I compared broad mill and normal ("narrow") mill 1840 (Philadelphia) coins side-by-side a few years ago, as I remember, the broad mill coin had fine edge reeding and the narrow mill had the normal coarser edge reeding.
  • jonrunsjonruns Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here are my two...can't figure out which of the three varieties they are...but the "O" is definitely a different size and in a different place....

    [URL=http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/jonruns/media/1840-O 5 PCGS VF20_zpsnftfgxnl.jpg.html]image[/URL]

    [URL=http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/jonruns/media/1840O_5_P40_CAC_zpsxrrnsxwr.jpg.html]image[/URL]
  • msch1manmsch1man Posts: 809 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm certainly no expert, but I think it is the broad mill based on the position of the mintmark...NGC recognizes the varieties and yours seems to match the Broad Mill - NGC Page.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: IwantNonCCs

    Thank you. Guess the only real difference is the actual coin diameter? I wrongly assumed it had to do with the width of the border around the design.



    David




    No as DCarr said, it is both the width of the border and a slight variation in the actual coin but the mill is referring to the border.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: msch1man

    I'm certainly no expert, but I think it is the broad mill based on the position of the mintmark...NGC recognizes the varieties and yours seems to match the Broad Mill - NGC Page.




    Variety 1 (broad mill) and 2 (narrow mill) have the same mm placement. Variety 3 another narrow mill has a different mm placement.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The diagnostic you can use on higher graded coins is that on variety 2 there a raise die scratches inbetween and below I and B in Liberty.



    The absence of these along with the mint mark placement can confirm a broad mill without measuring.



    image
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 22,612 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting thread.
  • IwantNonCCsIwantNonCCs Posts: 369 ✭✭
    Thanks everyone for your assistance.

    If I understand correctly. Variety 1 and Variety 2 are the same, front and back except for raised scratchs between the I and B (probably due to polishing at some point, but not necessarly did the polishing occur at the same time as the change to smaller collars.

    Doug Winter calls the small mill on these "medium mill," as the difference isn't as great as the philidelphia issue, I think.

    From staring at the NGC picture of what they are calling a wide mill, the border looks to be the same width as the stars, while the medium/narrow mill the stars are noticably larger/wider then the border.

    The stars on mine seem to match my later Orleans half eagles (1843,1844) as far as the width of the border and the comparison of size of stars to width of border.

    Therefore, since I am not going to crack it out and buy a caliper to due precise measurement, I am concluding that I do NOT have a wide mill but the most common variety (Die 2)

    Still, coinfacts estimate only 237 examples remain of this date.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with your assessment that it is likely not a broad mill but also that the 40-O is a cool coin which is pretty interesting as a first year issue which starts off a very collectible set of half eagles.
  • jonrunsjonruns Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm guessing that my XF40 is a Narrow Mill? Mintmark is smaller and round and over the V...


    Variety Three: Narrow Mill. The coin is 21.8 mm. in diameter. The date is lower than on Variety Two with the 1 further from the truncation. The 1 shows light repunching at its base. The mintmark is small and round. It is placed over the V in FIVE. There are raised die lines between the border and the letters in STATES. Many of the vertical stripe lines extend into the horizontal shield lines above. A light clashmark connects the right wing and the lower beak.

    This variety is rare in all grades.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Variety 2 and variety three based on the pics you posted. I'm. To sure I'd say variety 3 is rare. Check the Heritage archives and count how many you see out of the total pops for an indication of the distribution.
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is an article on 1840-O broad mill coins in the April 2002 Numismatist magazine.

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