$80 Morgan sold for $7500?!

kookoox10 · May 1, 2016 3:22PM

I was looking at some previously closed sales on toner Morgans and came across this bad boy. I know toners drive some wild prices but I didn't know it had this much of an effect on common date material. Guy has some other real nice examples in addition to the one that sold a short while ago.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1885-O-PCGS-MS64-CAC-Monster-Toned-Morgan-Dollar-Rainbow-Toning-color-/121914854691?hash=item1c62b10d23:g:q7cAAOSwAuNW2oGS&nma=true&si=PGqxtrW8wZbC4BqJQu1HwJOk2OA%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Kyle · May 1, 2016 3:41PM

Linked

The sky's the limit for toners.

Boosibri · May 1, 2016 3:42PM

That is stupid money

Zoins · May 1, 2016 3:46PM

Beautiful looking coin from the photos.

Kccoin · May 1, 2016 4:07PM

Nice looking coin. Looks like the seller also sold an 83-o (twice) for close to 3k. Thats a few gold coins!!

Are they worth the money? Somebody thinks so.

kookoox10 · May 1, 2016 4:52PM

Originally posted by: FadeToBlack
$289 for 24 months! That's almost a car payment.

Sounds like a lease for a Toyota Camry.

Rampage · May 1, 2016 7:43PM

I doubt the new owner will ever get a solid return if he/she goes to sell it. You never know, though...

Rampage · May 1, 2016 7:44PM

It looks like a best offer was accepted. Of course, now we do not have a way of seeing exactly how much it sold for like we did just a few short months ago. So, maybe it sold for $1,000?

oih82w8 · May 1, 2016 8:07PM

Originally posted by: Rampage

It looks like a best offer was accepted. Of course, now we do not have a way of seeing exactly how much it sold for like we did just a few short months ago. So, maybe it sold for $1,000?

watchcount.com will reveal the Best Offer Price the item sold for...just copy the ebay item number and "presto"...purchase price revealed.

Sold for $6,000

david3142 · May 1, 2016 10:53PM

The seller is a forum member. I offered to buy the coin a few months ago when he first put it up for sale (before it was on eBay) but he thought it could go higher. We've discussed pricing in the past and his thinking is that you can't get what you don't ask for. Win for him that he was able to get pretty close to it!

It is the most viewed coin on collectivecoin.com so that probably says something too.

TwoSides2aCoin · May 1, 2016 11:04PM

Unlike cars and trucks, coins are easier to list on eBay. Now , he might have gotten robbed had he sold it on Craigslist. (outside observer looking in)

BryceM · May 1, 2016 11:31PM

I know what you're saying, but it's actually only worth a dollar, or maybe $13.81, not $80.

All of the premium above that is just because a few folks gots to have the precious.....

BAJJERFAN · May 1, 2016 11:51PM

How is paying a premium for color any different than paying big money for a sillyass VAM with an extra dot/blob of metal which 99.99999% of collectors couldn't see if their life depended on it?

To each their own.

brg5658 · May 1, 2016 11:54PM

The seller is a member here, and (for lack of better words) often/usually prices his coins to the moon with a "Make an Offer" option.

About a year ago Legend sold a $140 coin (PCGS price guide) for $14,000 -- so, this isn't a "one off" case of stupidity.

brg5658 · May 1, 2016 11:56PM

Originally posted by: BAJJERFAN

How is paying a premium for color any different than paying big money for a sillyass VAM with an extra dot/blob of metal which 99.99999% of collectors couldn't see if their life depended on it?

To each their own.

That is sooooooo true! VAMs are such a niche collecting realm, whereas colorful attractive coins are pretty mainstream. To each his/her own indeed!

TwoSides2aCoin · May 2, 2016 12:06AM

It's a great hobby.

The End.

clarkbar04 · May 2, 2016 12:25AM

Last night an ms66 38-d buff just sold for just a hair under 4k, so now nothing surprises me.

mr1931S · May 2, 2016 12:27AM

A dealer once told me long ago,"Never pay more than the most a dealer would pay."

My estimation is that a show dealer would pay not a penny more than $200 to acquire an MS64 CAC '85-O Morgan dollar like the one seen.

Yorkshireman · May 2, 2016 12:33AM

The phrase "more money than sense" comes to mind.

kookoox10 · May 2, 2016 12:34AM

Everyone made a great point, not a wrong or incorrect one. And kudos to the dealer for the sale and recognizing this niche in the market. Just as a litmus test, there's something about the Morgan series that garners huge attraction to big time toning and therefore great sales. I don't see too many other series with that kind of percent increase in value for wild toning, except maybe a couple Classic Commems. Peace, Barber, some Seated material and a few Proof Indian cents sell for pretty good money, but not nearly as crazy as Morgans. Yes, I've been searching completed auctions through ebay and Heritage because I became curious.

AmazonX · May 2, 2016 12:39AM

To each is their own. It's a pretty coin. Would I buy it? No. Then again, I'm sure a lot of collectors wouldn't buy some of my coins.

ksuscott · May 2, 2016 1:12AM

Originally posted by: clarkbar04
Last night an ms66 38-d buff just sold for just a hair under 4k, so now nothing surprises me.

Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331839015171

CommemKing · May 2, 2016 1:18AM

I was going to snipe it but the spot on the reverse held me back.

All kidding aside, that is just dumb. Somebody someday is going to wish they didn't spend so much on that coin.

keyman64 · May 2, 2016 1:19AM

Originally posted by: ksuscott

Originally posted by: clarkbar04

Last night an ms66 38-d buff just sold for just a hair under 4k, so now nothing surprises me.

Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/331839015171

I was not crazy about the Morgan in the original post, especially with the spot on the reverse. Because of the grade, the contact marks on the obv do not surprise me but the spot I could do without.

However, that is one beautiful 38-D Buffalo!

kookoox10 · May 2, 2016 2:02AM

That is a stunner for sure. I'm sure crazyhound was keeping an eye on that one too.

roadrunner · May 2, 2016 2:15AM

Originally posted by: mr1874

A dealer once told me long ago,"Never pay more than the most a dealer would pay."

My estimation is that a show dealer would pay not a penny more than $200 to acquire an MS64 CAC '85-O Morgan dollar like the one seen.

If you get one like this please bring it the next show I am attending. I can line up a dozen dealers I know who would gladly pay multiples of $200 for this coin....including me.

Considering it sold for $6,000, and numerous people were after it, the odds of buying such a slabbed coin for $200-$250 would seem to be similar to the odds of being hit by lighting while posting on the forum. I don't specialize in Morgan toners. But, I know that if I saw such a coin for under $600 on the bourse floor I'd likely snap it up and take my "chances."

DIMEMAN · May 2, 2016 2:24AM

Originally posted by: Boosibri
That is stupid money

+1

brg5658 · May 2, 2016 2:27AM

Originally posted by: roadrunner

Originally posted by: mr1874

A dealer once told me long ago,"Never pay more than the most a dealer would pay."

My estimation is that a show dealer would pay not a penny more than $200 to acquire an MS64 CAC '85-O Morgan dollar like the one seen.

If you get one like this please bring it the next show I am attending. I can line up a dozen dealers I know who would gladly pay multiples of $200 for this coin....including me.

Considering it sold for $6,000, and numerous people were after it, the odds of buying such a slabbed coin for $200-$250 would seem to be similar to the odds of being hit by lighting while posting on the forum. I don't specialize in Morgan toners. But, I know that if I saw such a coin for under $600 on the bourse floor I'd likely snap it up and take my "chances."

What makes you think "numerous people were after it"? It was listed for $7500 BIN and sold for $6000 via "Make an Offer" -- there is no way to know how many people were after it.

golden · May 2, 2016 2:38AM

I just do not like that kind of toning.

david3142 · May 2, 2016 3:08AM

I was an underbidder on that nickel too and I actually thought $2000 would win it. Shane had it listed as a BIN for at least 6 months at a much lower price.

ricko · May 2, 2016 3:35AM

Un-freakin'-believable...... Cheers, RickO

Kyle · May 2, 2016 6:03AM

I'm sure many remember this "$160 morgan" that sold at GreatCollections last September.

Yorkshireman · May 2, 2016 6:07AM

Maybe I should consign my amazingly toned Specimen Canadian silver dollar somewhere.

shish · May 2, 2016 7:21AM

Un-freakin'-believable......

+1

Justacommeman · May 2, 2016 7:22AM

Originally posted by: mr1874

A dealer once told me long ago,"Never pay more than the most a dealer would pay."

My estimation is that a show dealer would pay not a penny more than $200 to acquire an MS64 CAC '85-O Morgan dollar like the one seen.

These dealers are out of the loop then and aren't doing their homework.

Coins like this do better in auction regardless.

mark

roadrunner · May 2, 2016 7:24AM

What makes you think "numerous people were after it"? It was listed for $7500 BIN and sold for $6000 via "Make an Offer" -- there is no way to know how many people were after it.

Specifically, this post in the thread made me think that:

The seller is a forum member. I offered to buy the coin a few months ago when he first put it up for sale (before it was on eBay) but he thought it could go higher. We've discussed pricing in the past and his thinking is that you can't get what you don't ask for. Win for him that he was able to get pretty close to it!

It is the most viewed coin on collectivecoin.com so that probably says something too.

One would think that David3142 offered something quite substantial for this coin. The toner guys don't like to let out their secrets. Why make it easy on us newbs who think they are worth $200?

I would think most every expert toner Morgan dollar collector/dealer who saw the Ebay listing (dozens to hundreds of people) would have been interested in this coin at a price between $600-$6,000.

The title of this thread is misleading, if not just plain wrong. An $80 Morgan did not sell for $7500. A $6,000 Morgan sold for $6,000....simple as that.

Justacommeman · May 2, 2016 7:37AM

Originally posted by: Yorkshireman

Maybe I should consign my amazingly toned Specimen Canadian silver dollar somewhere.

Small audience

The Morgan guys are fairly deep.

I don't collect toned Morgan's but I've been hearing for years how dumb and unreasonable it is to collect wild toners. Well, this end of the matrket seems to be doing fine.

mark

Shortgapbob · May 2, 2016 10:03AM

I'm a dealer full time and I'd pay much more than $200 for that 85-O.

jughead1893 · May 2, 2016 10:11AM

green cheek=$$$

roadrunner · May 2, 2016 10:30AM

Originally posted by: Shortgapbob

I'm a dealer full time and I'd pay much more than $200 for that 85-O.

Yeah, I think even JA at CAC would offer more than $200 for it. He's a dealer isn't he?

LeeBone · May 2, 2016 11:01AM

brg5658 · May 2, 2016 11:13AM

Originally posted by: roadrunner

What makes you think "numerous people were after it"? It was listed for $7500 BIN and sold for $6000 via "Make an Offer" -- there is no way to know how many people were after it.

Specifically, this post in the thread made me think that:

The seller is a forum member. I offered to buy the coin a few months ago when he first put it up for sale (before it was on eBay) but he thought it could go higher. We've discussed pricing in the past and his thinking is that you can't get what you don't ask for. Win for him that he was able to get pretty close to it!

It is the most viewed coin on collectivecoin.com so that probably says something too.

One would think that David3142 offered something quite substantial for this coin. The toner guys don't like to let out their secrets. Why make it easy on us newbs who think they are worth $200?

I would think most every expert toner Morgan dollar collector/dealer who saw the Ebay listing (dozens to hundreds of people) would have been interested in this coin at a price between $600-$6,000.

The title of this thread is misleading, if not just plain wrong. An $80 Morgan did not sell for $7500. A $6,000 Morgan sold for $6,000....simple as that.

So you just make things up. Got it.

RichieURich · May 2, 2016 11:25AM

Originally posted by: Shortgapbob

I'm a dealer full time and I'd pay much more than $200 for that 85-O.

Ditto!

roadrunner · May 2, 2016 11:57AM

Originally posted by: brg5658

Originally posted by: roadrunner

What makes you think "numerous people were after it"? It was listed for $7500 BIN and sold for $6000 via "Make an Offer" -- there is no way to know how many people were after it.

Specifically, this post in the thread made me think that:

The seller is a forum member. I offered to buy the coin a few months ago when he first put it up for sale (before it was on eBay) but he thought it could go higher. We've discussed pricing in the past and his thinking is that you can't get what you don't ask for. Win for him that he was able to get pretty close to it!

It is the most viewed coin on collectivecoin.com so that probably says something too.

One would think that David3142 offered something quite substantial for this coin. The toner guys don't like to let out their secrets. Why make it easy on us newbs who think they are worth $200?

I would think most every expert toner Morgan dollar collector/dealer who saw the Ebay listing (dozens to hundreds of people) would have been interested in this coin at a price between $600-$6,000.

The title of this thread is misleading, if not just plain wrong. An $80 Morgan did not sell for $7500. A $6,000 Morgan sold for $6,000....simple as that.

So you just make things up. Got it.

I read what people say as well as in between the lines. There's nothing incorrect in what I've stated above....though, feel free to try and disprove any of it. I don't expect Dave3142 to divulge his original offer but that would be quite instructive here. He's just one of hundreds that play in the toner arena. No doubt a reasonable % of them follow Ebay listings quite closely. Hence, "numerous" people interested. This is just one little thread on one single toner coin, and look at the response it got. If Dave3142 was a strong buyer for it how many others do you think also tracked it? Don't fall back on the easy answer that "we just don't know." How many buyers do you think would line for it at $600? $1,000? $2,000? Don't overthink it. Dealers and top collectors are always looking for arbitrage. If this coin presented such an opportunity, they'd be on it. 99% of collectors and almost as many dealers don't know how to fully value such a coin. I'm in that 99%. So a discussion on how it's only worth $200 seems sort of pointless, especially since it just sold for $6,000.

After playing in the coin markets for 45 years, 10 of those as a dealer, I think I have a fair handle on what dealers and collectors look for and are willing to pay, especially for top notch coins. Find me another MS64 CAC Morgan with these colors and I'll mail you a check for $600. PM me when you find one. "A" level coins only, not A-, B+ or B level toners that are worth only a fraction of the "A" coins. One of my dealer friends has a good knack for finding A- and B+ toners and getting $400-$800 for them. I've never seen him land one like the 1885-0 in this thread. This coin has better color than the GC 1879-s MS65 rattler above that fetched $13,888. If we conservatively assume that coin could be bumped to MS66, that's a 4X premium to a generic 64. Dividing by 4 comes to $3,472....probably a fair price for under-bidders to pay for this MS64 1885-0....though with better color, it probably gets a stronger premium. I'm not even a player in this market and here I am defending it, because it makes perfect sense to. When a 2 by 4 hits you across the face, you have to concede that this is reality.

Walkerfan · May 2, 2016 12:30PM

Originally posted by: Yorkshireman

The phrase "more money than sense" comes to mind.

Just my thinking, as I don't understand how some color can make something so radically more expensive than it should be.

$600 I could see......$6000 not so much.

astrorat · May 2, 2016 12:33PM

Wow ...

coindeuce · May 2, 2016 12:37PM

Originally posted by: Yorkshireman

The phrase "more money than sense" comes to mind.

The phrase "self indulgent vanity" comes to mind.

brg5658 · May 2, 2016 12:59PM

Originally posted by: roadrunner

Originally posted by: brg5658

Originally posted by: roadrunner

What makes you think "numerous people were after it"? It was listed for $7500 BIN and sold for $6000 via "Make an Offer" -- there is no way to know how many people were after it.

Specifically, this post in the thread made me think that:

The seller is a forum member. I offered to buy the coin a few months ago when he first put it up for sale (before it was on eBay) but he thought it could go higher. We've discussed pricing in the past and his thinking is that you can't get what you don't ask for. Win for him that he was able to get pretty close to it!

It is the most viewed coin on collectivecoin.com so that probably says something too.

One would think that David3142 offered something quite substantial for this coin. The toner guys don't like to let out their secrets. Why make it easy on us newbs who think they are worth $200?

I would think most every expert toner Morgan dollar collector/dealer who saw the Ebay listing (dozens to hundreds of people) would have been interested in this coin at a price between $600-$6,000.

The title of this thread is misleading, if not just plain wrong. An $80 Morgan did not sell for $7500. A $6,000 Morgan sold for $6,000....simple as that.

So you just make things up. Got it.

I read what people say as well as in between the lines. There's nothing incorrect in what I've stated above....though, feel free to try and disprove any of it. I don't expect Dave3142 to divulge his original offer but that would be quite instructive here. He's just one of hundreds that play in the toner arena. No doubt a reasonable % of them follow Ebay listings quite closely. Hence, "numerous" people interested. This is just one little thread on one single toner coin, and look at the response it got. If Dave3142 was a strong buyer for it how many others do you think also tracked it? Don't fall back on the easy answer that "we just don't know." How many buyers do you think would line for it at $600? $1,000? $2,000? Don't overthink it. Dealers and top collectors are always looking for arbitrage. If this coin presented such an opportunity, they'd be on it. 99% of collectors and almost as many dealers don't know how to fully value such a coin. I'm in that 99%. So a discussion on how it's only worth $200 seems sort of pointless, especially since it just sold for $6,000.

After playing in the coin markets for 45 years, 10 of those as a dealer, I think I have a fair handle on what dealers and collectors look for and are willing to pay, especially for top notch coins. Find me another MS64 CAC Morgan with these colors and I'll mail you a check for $600. PM me when you find one. "A" level coins only, not A-, B+ or B level toners that are worth only a fraction of the "A" coins. One of my dealer friends has a good knack for finding A- and B+ toners and getting $400-$800 for them. I've never seen him land one like the 1885-0 in this thread. This coin has better color than the GC 1879-s MS65 rattler above that fetched $13,888. If we conservatively assume that coin could be bumped to MS66, that's a 4X premium to a generic 64. Dividing by 4 comes to $3,472....probably a fair price for under-bidders to pay for this MS64 1885-0....though with better color, it probably gets a stronger premium. I'm not even a player in this market and here I am defending it, because it makes perfect sense to. When a 2 by 4 hits you across the face, you have to concede that this is reality.

For the record, I questioned how you could "know" the level of interest. I didn't reply to you with regard to the price at which it sold.

If $6000 was such a bargain, then why did it take 6 weeks for someone to make an offer of that amount and for it to sell on eBay? Why wasn't it swept up by the "advanced" Morgan toner experts within a matter of minutes for the full asking price of $7500?

You often post as if you know everything about every coin that is for sale, but seldom are you doing more than just shooting from the hip and making it up as you go. It is entertaining how your hindsight is always 20-15 -- because, you know, 20-20 isn't good enough for you.

DRUNNER · May 2, 2016 1:01PM

Many of these authentic and better toners represent a period of our history, storage method, and ultimate distribution that was unique and allowed for some of the most dramatic colorations on Morgans that will ever be seen. Those who collect them represent just a section, albeit small, of the collecting community that appreciates the absolute rarity of a coin with unique beauty.

In this arena, we find fault with flippers, MercGoldDime guys, variety hounds, modern collectors, First Strike devotees, and the like. I also do not understand the attraction of some of those subgroups, but I do not disparage them. Add toner lovers to this group of eclectic numismatists . . . just another group who exhibit passion and follow the toners where they may go.

Yup . . . I have always loved toned coins. In time . . . a Morgan Toner of mine will make a 'debut' after I have had the chance to enjoy it. Some 'in the know' have remarked it is 'THE' toner (research 'BagBurn' if you feel the desire). It would have a PCGS full value of about $700 . . . but due to a fortuitous storage position, developed into a thing of art. Like many aspects of numismatics, it may possibly draw more interest than its mere $700 value would indicate. Not all of us can afford the Pogue 1822 . . . . . . but many of us can play in the arenas that appeal to our individual tastes.

Enjoy what you can . . . . I sometimes just love holding an AU 1919 Lincoln, and wonder about the times in which it was minted.

Drunner

hchcoin · May 2, 2016 1:14PM

Congrats to the seller. Nice looking toning.

$80 Morgan sold for $7500?!

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