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Dealers on Shrooms
vpr
Posts: 604 ✭✭✭
Some folks. I understand that you can ask whatever you want for stuff you own, but seriously... What credibility are you left with, as a coin dealer when you create listings like this one?
Ebay should up their listing fees for BIN listings
Ebay should up their listing fees for BIN listings
References: Too many to list. PM for details. 100% satisfaction both as buyer and seller. As a seller, I ship promptly and keep buyers updated.
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In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Julian, who has seen many more coins than I ever will, obviously believes in the coin and has it priced along the lines of a strong MS64.
Well, it's simple then. Crack it out, re-submit it and once it comes back as a 64, list it. I guess some people spend so much time obsessing about coins that they lose touch with reality.
Seems odd that it would get broken out and sent to NGC.
Yes, whoever cracked it out to resubmit is the one needing of a lobotomy.
Seems odd that it would get broken out and sent to NGC.
Quite the contrary. To quote Albus Dumbledore, "Actually if I think about it, it doesn't seem curious at all."
Submitting to NGC has been a strategy by many with coins they feel are borderline upgrades.
I'm surprised it hasn't been cracked and tried again. Well, I don't know that with certainty but I surely would keep at it until it gets back into a problem-free holder.
Lance.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Turn the channel
mark
I did and then made a post about it. : ) Next time, I'll probably ignore listings by this dealer.
Turn the channel
mark
I did and then made a post about it. : ) Next time, I'll probably ignore listings by this dealer.
I hear you. I don't even turn that channel on anymore.
Coins aren't fungible and grading is subjective but........nevermind
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
ngc opinion: cleaned
dealer trying to sell it: strong 64
that's about par for the course. if you're selling the coin, it's undergraded. if you are buying it, it's overgraded.
Pcgs opinion: 63
Pcgs opinion: Cleaned
Pcgs opinion: Cleaned
Pcgs opinion: Cleaned
NGC opinion: Cleaned
"Well, crap"
It's probably more like:
Pcgs opinion: 63
Pcgs opinion: Cleaned
Pcgs opinion: Cleaned
Pcgs opinion: Cleaned
NGC opinion: Cleaned
"Well, crap"
Seems odd that it would get broken out and sent to NGC.
Yes, whoever cracked it out to resubmit is the one needing of a lobotomy.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1797-D...p--GesWe2Bnlm3cvNnpyUw
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
No
Or this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1797-D...p--GesWe2Bnlm3cvNnpyUw
Aren't you glad you didn't buy it at the regular price of $69,950.00. Now you can save 57% off that.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
The dealer is a nice guy.
The coin is probably as nice as many others in graded holders.
The slab it used to be in could not possibly be more useless information.
Many people crack out 5-figure coins routinely and having a few that never get back into plastic is part of the cost of doing business.
Grades are just opinions, and many of our own treasures are borderline problem coins too.
Seems odd that it would get broken out and sent to NGC.
Not odd at all. NGC has often upgraded fairly mark free PCGS MS bust/seated coins. And an NGC MS64 of this date would probably be worth more than a PCGS 63. The owner could send it back to PCGS and try to get the 63 grade back, which seems quite reasonable. If I had this coin in a PCGS 63 holder I'd probably feel I owned an underachiever.
Coin looks much more like a 64 than a 63 to me. Exceptionally clean surfaces even for a 64 and decent luster. Someday, that coin will be in a top tier 64 holder. There's no doubt in my mind it would have graded 64 or 65 in the 2004-2008 period.
I recall when Julian had the Stadiem-Gardner 1867-s quarter. In my mind that coin was a cleaned and hairlined MS62 that should never get anything but a genuine holder. I was surprised to see that graded PCGS MS62 (or was it 63?) a few years ago. Time eventually catches up and opinions can change. With only a half dozen or so real uncs of that date, holdering one at MS62 was not exactly saturating the market.
The coins that I offer are for serious numismatists who understand coins.
I do have coins that I disagree with the services on, but so do others. One reason that I do have coins that the services list as problems is that I understand rarity and condition for now over 50 years and for the most part don't automatically pass on coins, just because of what someone else thinks.
The most important aspect of collecting really anything is that you must have patience, both in buying and selling.
Numismatics is clearly a luxury.
Patience is critical.
Full Satisfaction Guaranteed.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I knew it would happen.
If you think this coin price is reasonable at an MS64 holder, then offer him. Otherwise, just walk away
It's probably more like:
Pcgs opinion: 63
Pcgs opinion: Cleaned
Pcgs opinion: Cleaned
Pcgs opinion: Cleaned
NGC opinion: Cleaned
"Well, crap"
HAHAHAHA
Dozens of BST deals completed, including: kalshacon, cucamongacoin, blu62vette, natetrook, JGNumismatics, Coinshowman, DollarAfterDollar, timbuk3, jimdimmick & many more
Why bash the owner or the coin?
It's simple just move on.
Many thanx for looking at my listings.
The coins that I offer are for serious numismatists who understand coins.
I do have coins that I disagree with the services on, but so do others. One reason that I do have coins that the services list as problems is that I understand rarity and condition for now over 50 years and for the most part don't automatically pass on coins, just because of what someone else thinks.
The most important aspect of collecting really anything is that you must have patience, both in buying and selling.
Numismatics is clearly a luxury.
Patience is critical.
Full Satisfaction Guaranteed.
But the TPGs disagree, and if the coin continues to come back 'cleaned' on resubmission... that is the general 3rd party consensus. The whole idea of the TPG is to give a buyer who is less knowledgeable, or has not seen the coin in person, a second opinion-as well as one for yourself. The listing isn't deceptive, but I think you're turning people off. Because, you have a motivation to make the coin look better, when the TPGs do not.
Why not just list the coin raw?
If you disagree so often, why submit coins at all?
I think the reason is because the TPGs nearly always get the grade right.
Dealer prices are always a bit high, but this is just beyond all logic. The reality is that it's an UNC details coin worth about $3K on a good day, though this coin looks great for a details grade. I found another UNC details coin that also looks great and sold for $2.5K. In PCGS 64, it's worth about $11.5K at auction. I didn't check 63 prices, but I'm guessing around $6-7K. Let's assume that an offer price of $15K is accepted. That is still well beyond what a 64 is actually worth. Why would anyone reasonable pay > 64 money for a coin that graded 63 a while back and is now cleaned and in a details holder?
Note that there isn't any doubt here of whether the coin has been cleaned. The pictures in the listing show that the coin has been cleaned, so this is a details coin. Let's all note that here. That PCGS 63 coin is the same coin that is being sold, but with a lot of the toning removed.
I remember when the Playstation 4 first came out, on the day of launch, the first few sold for $20,000 on Ebay. So, anything's possible, I guess.
Cheers, RickO
First rule in numismatic eBay listing titles is that you CANNOT put a numerical grade in the title or description unless that numerical grade is titled on the TPG slab.
Has this rule changed ?
you know one can always pass if they don't agree with the price or condition!
Why bash the owner or the coin?
It's simple just move on.
that sounds reasonable to me. we should not bash anyone, in particular. especially someone who has obviously gained other's respect.
however, i think it's worthy of discussion on the merits of pricing, marketing, and coin grading. the seller is making a claim counter to either TPG. the merits of that claim, without or without respect to pricing, are game for critique. this is how a free market works!
we should not hurt feelings, nor get our feelings hurt in matters of business.
Many thanx for looking at my listings.
The coins that I offer are for serious numismatists who understand coins.
I do have coins that I disagree with the services on, but so do others. One reason that I do have coins that the services list as problems is that I understand rarity and condition for now over 50 years and for the most part don't automatically pass on coins, just because of what someone else thinks.
The most important aspect of collecting really anything is that you must have patience, both in buying and selling.
Numismatics is clearly a luxury.
Patience is critical.
Full Satisfaction Guaranteed.
But the TPGs disagree, and if the coin continues to come back 'cleaned' on resubmission... that is the general 3rd party consensus. The whole idea of the TPG is to give a buyer who is less knowledgeable, or has not seen the coin in person, a second opinion-as well as one for yourself. The listing isn't deceptive, but I think you're turning people off. Because, you have a motivation to make the coin look better, when the TPGs do not.
Why not just list the coin raw?
If you disagree so often, why submit coins at all?
I think the reason is because the TPGs nearly always get the grade right.
Appears that the seller's point is that TPGs do not always get the grade right and when they don't, there is opportunity for money to be made. Kudos to the seller for thinking outside the box.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Many thanx for looking at my listings.
The coins that I offer are for serious numismatists who understand coins.
I do have coins that I disagree with the services on, but so do others.
Full Satisfaction Guaranteed.
How come you never have a coin where you disagree with the grading service because it's graded too high? It goes both ways.
Appears that the seller's point is that TPGs do not always get the grade right and when they don't, there is opportunity for money to be made. Kudos to the seller for thinking outside the box.
If you are a nationally known dealer in rare coins, this is not thinking outside the box. This is how such dealers make a chunk of their income, and it has been this way for decades. It's called taking advantage of the uncertainties in grading.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
I bought a few expensive coins from him before and for some of his coins' prices, I cannot agree with. Nonetheless, I have to say Julian is very knowledge and honest. He still loves to use Gem BU on many of his coins thought some of them are in MS64 holders. Regardless the grade on the holder, if you agree with his price with the coin quality, consider to take it. If not, pass it. The last coin I bought from him that I offer him xxx dollars but he had to put the coin in yyy holder with zzz grade. He agreed. He made it and I honor my words. At the end, both sides were happy.
If you think this coin price is reasonable at an MS64 holder, then offer him. Otherwise, just walk away
Nah!
Folks would rather beat their chests at how silly the dealer appears to be regardless of the fact that he's actually been in the business for longer than most have been breathing.
Folks also seem to forget that "cleaning" or "cleaned" is nothing more than an opinion and opinions often do change.
My guess is that Julian is deep into this coin, perhaps purchasing it for what he believed was MS63 money. An upgrade attempt, possibly multiple attempts, brought the cleaned opinion regardless of the fact that it was MS graded before the attempt.
Sooooo, who are you going to believe?
PCGS at MS63?
NGC at Cleaned?
Or Julians opinion, and yes he can grade as well as the next guy, that the coin is truly an MS64?
It's really a personal choice which is the guiding factor behind EVERY coin purchase. You like it, want to buy it, then do it. Otherwise, just move on and leave the dealers "credibility" out of your decision.
The name is LEE!
Many thanx for looking at my listings.
The coins that I offer are for serious numismatists who understand coins.
I do have coins that I disagree with the services on, but so do others.
Full Satisfaction Guaranteed.
How come you never have a coin where you disagree with the grading service because it's graded too high? It goes both ways.
Good point. Where are all the overgraded coins? I know.... They only exist when someone is buying coins. Not while selling.
What a disappointment!
Some folks. I understand that you can ask whatever you want for stuff you own, but seriously... What credibility are you left with, as a coin dealer when you create listings like this one?
Ebay should up their listing fees for BIN listings
seems simple enough - if you share the seller's opinion of the coin you buy it. If you don't agree you don't buy it and are even free to publicly disagree with his opinion.
Attacking the seller's credibility because you don't share his opinion is uncalled for.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Some folks. I understand that you can ask whatever you want for stuff you own, but seriously... What credibility are you left with, as a coin dealer when you create listings like this one?
Ebay should up their listing fees for BIN listings
seems simple enough - if you share the seller's opinion of the coin you buy it. If you don't agree you don't buy it and are even free to publicly disagree with his opinion.
Attacking the seller's credibility because you don't share his opinion is uncalled for.
As a reputable dealer and claimed expert in the field, I think you have an extra responsibility to be more fair and open than the rest of the group. Yes, your credibility is damaged in my eyes, when you pull off these kind of marketing tactics.