New Guy with a Question
watchcollectortoo
Posts: 6 ✭
Hello to everyone, I am new to this message board. I have a question concerning accurate valuation of 1861-O seated half $ die varieties. As many here doubtless know, the New Orleans Mint changed hands twice in 1861. Recent research has established, or at least is claimed to have established, which of the fifteen 1861-O obverse/reverse die combinations were struck under federal authority, which were struck under State of Louisiana authority, and which were minted under CSA authority. Being a Civil War history and artifact buff, I am endeavoring to collect a nice example of an 1861-O 50c struck under each of the three minting authorities. Thus far, I have acquired a WB-103 (CSA) example in PCGS AU-53, and a WB-101, die pair 7 (State of LA) example in PCGS MS-64. I am still looking for the right federal authority example, which is supposedly the scarcest of the three. PCGS has only recently begun adding die variety information to its 1861-O half $ holders, and I suspect it will be a while before the PCGS on-line Price Guide catches up to this innovation in any meaningful way. So I seek the collective wisdom of the folks here to help me to decide how much to be willing to pay for a nice WB-101 die pair 1 or 2 example in some grade between AU-53 and MS-62 inclusive. On a percentage basis, how much of a premium over the undifferentiated listings in the PCGS Price Guide attach to examples from each of the three minting authorities?
Thanks in advance for sharing your expertise.
Thanks in advance for sharing your expertise.
Beginning (again) in coins; 35+ yr collector/researcher/author in early American pocket watches; Civil War watch, coin and history buff; physicist by day, banjo picker and aspiring sci-fi fantasy writer by night.
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You might also ask this question on the discussion boards of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
I love the personal info. in your sig. line.
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I wish I could help with your question but that is a pretty specific collecting area.
Good luck in your search.
It is a highly interesting subject for research.
Hopefully roadrunner or RichUrich or one of the other seated coin buffs will be along shortly
with some info for you.
This is not my wheelhouse so I'm only applying my own logic. Civil War collectibles are in strong demand by themselves....esp. CSA struck coins. They are possibly more CW memorabilia than coin. Considering that approx 20% of the orig mintage are the Federal varieties you seek (500,000 approx mintage), then finding an example should logically be no more challenging that finding an 1851-0 half (400K mintage)...and the 51-0 went through the melting wars of the early 1850's. I would think the 1851-0 carries a stiffer price and more popularity than a regular 1861-0. My WB half dollar variety book was purchased over 10 years ago...and the data on 1861-0 Federal/CSA/LA dies was listed in it. So it's not that new of information.
Don't rely on PCGS price guide because those might start you out at 50% over wholesale. By posting your "want list" here you may have also given others the idea to compete to find one....where you end up paying more than you should. Doing enough independent research and thinking of your own will give you the answer as to any premiums each of the varieties bring.
Full disclosure: I sell 1861-O halves including the Union die marriages. Randy Wiley is a good friend, and Bill Bugert is a good friend and one of my table *****istants.
The 1861-O Union die halves are one of the most-requested coins by my customers. And they are rare. I have been buying them for several years and haven't found many at all. And they do bring a premium. I sold a PCGS MS-64 half, Union die marriage, to another dealer for a client, the final sale price was somewhere in the $7,000 - $8,000 area. That is certainly a premium over a regular 1861-O half. The Union 1861-O half is far, far, far rarer than the WB-102 CSA issue 1861-O half, with the die crack from the nose to the rim, but the WB-102 is still priced higher despite it being far more common. We currently have 4 1861-O Union halves in stock, and that is because they are rare, just because we have 4 of something does not mean it is common; in fact, I don't think there are any others (attributed) currently for sale.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Gobrecht Journal #94 -- https://archive.org/details/gobrechtjournalfn094libe
Gobrecht Journal #97 -- https://archive.org/details/gobrechtjournalfn097libe
Gobrecht Journal #97 -- https://archive.org/details/gobrechtjournalfn097libe
I already have a copy of Bill Bugert's 2013 Book on 1861-O halves, signed by Bill Bugert at Rich Uhrich's table at one of the PAN Coin shows in Monroeville, PA. (Howdy, Rich. Thanks for your input. The fact that you post here tells me I am in the right place.) That book is definitive as far as die varieties are concerned, but of course, it contains no information on market values, nor could it. Some auction lot descriptions already include die variety attributions for 1861-O holders lacking this information, such as the Heritage auction in which my MS-64 LA example was sold. I suppose, though, that as 1861-O PCGS holders including die variety information proliferate, and auction results of those coins begin to appear, it may be possible to get a better read on the magnitude of the premiums on certain varieties.