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Can you guys help a relative newbie understand 9s and 10s?

So I'm searching for a "perfect" looking 1984 Donruss Mattingly. As I've looked at PSA 10s, as well as 9s, I have a hard time seeing the difference, and sometimes the 9s look better, especially the centering. There's about a $600 or so price differential between the two.

I'm not trying to contribute to the "one day the same card is a 9, another day it's a 10" debate, but for those that collect both what is the big difference typically between a 9 and 10?

I don't want to be a sucker and just buy a card because it's a "10" (yes, buy the card, not the holder), but there must be some fairly large condition discrepancy for such a huge price difference, right? What is usually the biggest factor that separates these two grades?

Thanks for your expert advice!

Comments

  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A slight touch of one corner.
  • as a collector, i never understood it either.

    Buy the Fine Nine!
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I honestly have no idea. I have started to avoid collecting certain cards for that exact reason. When I first started collecting graded cards around 5 years ago I really wanted a 1986 Topps Football Jerry Rice rookie in either a 9 or 10 but after submitting and resubmitting 4 or 5 times and never getting better then an 8 I just gave up. I have made peace with it now and I am very happy with my Rice 8's.
    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

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  • hyperchipper09hyperchipper09 Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great card, 84 D Mattingly. Centering. It is true that with eye appeal you can find , even some PSA 8 84 D Mattingly's that before closer inspection look about as good as some 10's. Much less 9's. But with that card there's usually something depending on who's grading/ who the grader is and what he/she determines to be a flaw. A very lightly touched corner, centering issue maybe not side to side but top to bottom. Stray print marks dot the Mattingly's also. Takes a decent eye with that card.
  • epatmythesepatmythes Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭
    Corners, typically. Without a loupe, too many times it's just impossible to see the difference between 9 corner(s) and 10 corners... especially on a card with white borders, like the Mattingly in question.
  • I think it's silly to have both "mint" and "gem" mint grades. IMO, the card is either "mint" or it isn't, therefore a mint should be a 10, NM-MT a 9 and on down. To grade a card "mint" but ok to have a corner touch, certain levels of off-center, whatever is ...I dunno. Mint = perfect. Any imperfection whatsoever = "not" Mint.



    I think the "other" grading co is even more lame with Mint, Gem Mint, and Pristine. Good grief.
  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I personally don't believe there's a meaningful difference. I also believe that if cracked out, an overwhelming percentage of 10s would come back 9s. I think a lot of times 10s are given to reward the very nicest cards in a high grade submission. The 10 seems to be a relative grade rather than an absolute one.
  • mlbfan2mlbfan2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: doog71

    I don't want to be a sucker and just buy a card because it's a "10" (yes, buy the card, not the holder), but there must be some fairly large condition discrepancy for such a huge price difference, right?




    Sometimes there is no difference at all, since cards that are graded a 9 are sometimes graded a 10 later on. Even some 8s have later become 10s.
  • I think that fact that you consider yourself a newbie tells me that you aren’t experienced enough to tell the difference between a (s)lightly touched corner(s) and gem mint ones well enough to see the difference between a 9 and a 10 card. When I first got back in the hobby in 2011, I thought I had awesome mint cards and then after about a year or so when I became more familiar with the grading scale and after looking at a bunch of graded cards on eBay, I went back and looked at my “mint” cards and the amount of little things I now caught were amazing. From print dots to bad centering to even bad registration. It’s more noticeable on some cards than others but I assure you that most of the time it's right in front of you.

    With the 84 Donruss Mattingly, the biggest difference with a graded 9 and a graded 10 is usually the centering. That is from me owning a couple of 10's in the past along with several 9’s and years of experience. In the end, always keep in mind that grading is subjective and if you are good with owning a 9, then get one but your "perfect" 9 will never even sell for half as much as the ugliest graded 10. Many collectors like to see that number on their holders. Me personally, I have skipped out on 10’s until I come across one that I personally like and I feel warrants that grade of a 10 without any doubt.

    Marc
  • doog71doog71 Posts: 405 ✭✭
    Originally posted by: Dnice
    I think that fact that you consider yourself a newbie tells me that you aren’t experienced enough to tell the difference between a (s)lightly touched corner(s) and gem mint ones well enough to see the difference between a 9 and a 10 card. When I first got back in the hobby in 2011, I thought I had awesome mint cards and then after about a year or so when I became more familiar with the grading scale and after looking at a bunch of graded cards on eBay, I went back and looked at my “mint” cards and the amount of little things I now caught were amazing. From print dots to bad centering to even bad registration. It’s more noticeable on some cards than others but I assure you that most of the time it's right in front of you.

    With the 84 Donruss Mattingly, the biggest difference with a graded 9 and a graded 10 is usually the centering. That is from me owning a couple of 10's in the past along with several 9’s and years of experience. In the end, always keep in mind that grading is subjective and if you are good with owning a 9, then get one but your "perfect" 9 will never even sell for half as much as the ugliest graded 10. Many collectors like to see that number on their holders. Me personally, I have skipped out on 10’s until I come across one that I personally like and I feel warrants that grade of a 10 without any doubt.

    Marc


    Wow that speaks volumes.

  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: doog71
    Originally posted by: Dnice
    In the end, always keep in mind that grading is subjective and if you are good with owning a 9, then get one but your "perfect" 9 will never even sell for half as much as the ugliest graded 10. Many collectors like to see that number on their holders. Me personally, I have skipped out on 10’s until I come across one that I personally like and I feel warrants that grade of a 10 without any doubt.

    Marc


    Wow that speaks volumes.



    Yes, I believe that statement to be correct. There is nothing wrong with buying the card and not the holder and if it saves you money and you are happy with it for your collection, all the better. The flip side is that not everyone thinks that way and there are people with deep pockets willing to pay up for slider 10's at multiples of gorgeous 9's because that is what it says on the flip. And there is nothing wrong with that either. Everyone should be allowed to collect what makes them happy.

    To answer your original question. I think grading is ultimately a subjective process despite the technical components involved. The reality is that the difference between a 9 and a 10 could very easily be just the difference between being graded by the same grader on different days. I once subbed three of the same modern card in one sub. All three came back 9's. I cracked them all and while one had a surface problem (possibly from my poor crack out skills) the other two looked perfect. I sent them both back and they both got 10's. There are countless examples of this. There are also examples of people cracking out 8's hoping for bumps and going the wrong direction and getting 7's. I really believe that if you cracked out 10 vintage 10's and re-subbed them all, there is a miniscule chance that all 10 come back 10's again.
    Steve
  • vintagefunvintagefun Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭
    I buy 9s and try to submit 10s. But I rarely, buy a 10. I do rip a fair amount of 80s through a year though.
    52-90 All Sports, Mostly Topps, Mostly HOF, and some assorted wax.
  • rexvosrexvos Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: vintagefun
    I buy 9s and try to submit 10s. But I rarely, buy a 10. I do rip a fair amount of 80s through a year though.


    I second this. I only buy 10s of cheaper cards of guys I collect.
    Looking for FB HOF Rookies
  • LittletweedLittletweed Posts: 623 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: vintagefun
    I buy 9s and try to submit 10s. But I rarely, buy a 10. I do rip a fair amount of 80s through a year though.


    I also buy 9's and try for 10's, sell the 10's and buy more 9's.

    If it's well centered, it's a thing of beauty. Here's mine:

    image
    Matt

  • Matt, that's a sweet looking 9.

    To me the diff. between the two grades is the mood of the grader.
  • That certainly is a beautiful 9 but I can also clearly see why it's a 9.
  • hyperchipper09hyperchipper09 Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Dnice
    That certainly is a beautiful 9 but I can also clearly see why it's a 9.



    True. Very sweet looking 9 however image
  • Print spots on his forehead?
  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: 59Horsehide
    Print spots on his forehead?


    I am going with the bottom right corner.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • LittletweedLittletweed Posts: 623 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Cakes
    Originally posted by: 59Horsehide
    Print spots on his forehead?


    I am going with the bottom right corner.



    The snow on his forehead is scanner dust. It could be the bottom right corner and/or there are two red print dots, upper right by his head and in the blue, to the right of 1B. While it's properly graded, the differences between 9's and 10's can be very minor.

    Here's a 10 that I would not spend my money on.

    image




    Matt

  • skrezyna23skrezyna23 Posts: 908 ✭✭✭
    Spend no more than $70 on a sweet looking 9 and be happy.
  • In a perfect world the 10 should have a noticeable difference. Very minor yes but noticeable. But as many have said you can find 9's that look like 10's and vice versa. As many have also said find a really nice 9 that you are happy with for 1/10 of the cost. Same holds true on grading for other grades also but they just don't carry the premium of a psa 10. I bought a 83 Topps Gwynn psa 8 the other day just because it was only $17 or so..... The card is a 7 on the very best day and probably a 6 to be honest with two corner issues. I will keep it but you get the point
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