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Topic Title: The Babe Ruth Esso Boy's Club and pin discussion - added Brooklyn Dodgers Hall of Fame Member pin
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Created On: 5/6/2011 1:31 PM
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 5/6/2011 1:31 PM
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Stone193
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Since it's a pin - I know this will have limited appreciation - but learning about pins and the fakes is quite a challenge.

As we all know, the Babe was a sponsor for just about everything under the sun – and the Esso Gas Company was one of them.



Also, one could go to the station and pick up an application for the club – get the “pin” and be put in for a drawing for an autographed ball, fielder’s glove or trip to the Babe Ruth Spring Training Club.



I'm not truly sure if they sent the person a pin when ya sent in the application or at the station?

Now to the club pin that seemed to be popular and from what I can see – may have come in slight variations along with an infamous copy that’s being picked up by unsuspecting buyers as real. In fact, I believe that the pin may have lost acceptability due to the pervasive fakes.

Here's a couple of reprints/fakes that have been sold on ebay and other auctions on the net:




The fakes have quite a few “telltale” features:

1. The ball stitching on the top of the ball "doesn't" touch the Esso circle.

2. The "R" in Ruth is different in the fake - if one views an "R" as "P" with a 'leg' - then the leg is straight in the fake and more curved in the real pin.

3. The pin-back is not centered in the fake and appears more modern.

4. The Esso "line" for the circle is thicker in the real pin as are the overall font design.

Here are some pins that I think are real and I don't understand the difference in the surface - was there a non-painted version or were they polished due to paint chipping?






Here's a close up of the fake vs the real pin with respect to the "R" in Ruth:



I don't own any of the fake pins - so I couldn't blow it up like the four I own.

When a pin comes up for like 10 or 15 bucks, I'm gonna pick up a fake.

When I started this - I thought a couple of the ones I picked up were fakes, but as I learned - they don't resemble the fake.

Finally, in the world of "Relativism" - it's believed - I think - that there is no right or wrong - as such - just opinion. I wonder if this sometimes pertains to collectibles - auto's fer sure!

I would like to pick one up in good shape one day?

edit: I posted this in another thread but just wanted to show a pin I know nothing about - but I think it's cool.

Brooklyn Dodgers Hall of Fame Member - Balfour



I'm gonna update this when I find something out about it - I asked the BB HOF for help.

-------------------------
Mike
63F Set

I only hold onto my hobby tight enough that it doesn't hold onto me.
 5/6/2011 3:19 PM
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CollectorAtWork
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Nice post. Does PSA grade these yet?

-------------------------
Babe Ruth Master Set
Lou Gehrig Master Set

WTB:1917-20 M101-6 Felix Mendelsohn Ruth, 1928 Star Player Candy Ruth
 5/6/2011 6:23 PM
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Stone193
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<< Nice post. Does PSA grade these yet? >>

Thanx - have no idea - I've never had a pin graded.

-------------------------
Mike
63F Set

I only hold onto my hobby tight enough that it doesn't hold onto me.
 5/8/2011 7:59 AM
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scmavl
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Very cool, I just picked up one of the Esso applications and a (non-Esso) Ruth pin as well.





-------------------------
I collect Harmon Killebrew.
 5/8/2011 10:43 AM
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Stone193
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Very nice pickups SC.

Don't know anything about the pin. I picked up the short pad of the app's a few years ago. The picture above is not mine - the seller says it's an "Esso" broken easel-back display - but there's no Esso "logo" - which would make it more attractive IMO.

If you decide to pick up the pin - I hope this will help?

Also, be careful of the pin "Babe Ruth shook my hand"



From the "Keyman" web - he feels this pin-back style may be a modern fake of the real one:



He believes this is the way the pin should look? But he can't find one with this style - which is more consistent with 1930s pins - I can show a small variation in the style which is real tho.



-------------------------
Mike
63F Set

I only hold onto my hobby tight enough that it doesn't hold onto me.
 5/8/2011 11:38 AM
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fkw
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FYI
Here is another example of how to tell a fake and authentic Babe Ruth pin...

The 1935 Quaker Oats "CHAMPIONS" pin

This is a worthless modern fake
http://cgi.ebay.com/1935-Babe-Ruth-Champions-Pin-Yankees-NY-HOF-RED-SOX-/290452296749

This is authentic
http://cgi.ebay.com/BABE-RUTH-1935-Quaker-Oats-Champion-Pin-Very-Sharp-/190433322453

The easiest way to tell is to look at the "M" in "CHAMPIONS" The middle point of the "M" goes all the way to the bottom on the authentic pin, but only 1/2 way down on the fakes...

-------------------------
PreWar baseball "type card" collector
 5/8/2011 11:56 AM
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Stone193
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Thanx for the post on the Quaker pin - I was not familiar with it.

Here's the real one:



As was posted - check out the "M" - compared to the "fake?" Not a cheap pin! I know nothing about this pin and it's fake.

-------------------------
Mike
63F Set

I only hold onto my hobby tight enough that it doesn't hold onto me.
 5/8/2011 12:03 PM
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nam812
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<< FYI
Here is another example of how to tell a fake and authentic Babe Ruth pin...

The 1935 Quaker Oats "CHAMPIONS" pin

This is a worthless modern fake
http://cgi.ebay.com/BABE-RUTH-1935-Quaker-Oats-Champion-Pin-Very-Sharp-/190433322453

This is authentic
http://cgi.ebay.com/BABE-RUTH-1935-Quaker-Oats-Champion-Pin-Very-Sharp-/190433322453

The easiest way to tell is to look at the "M" in "CHAMPIONS" The middle point of the "M" goes all the way to the bottom on the authentic pin, but only 1/2 way down on the fakes...
>>



You linked the same auction twice.

-------------------------
My 1910 Champions T218 set at 100% with a GPA of 5.01, and all 153 cards are scanned.
 5/8/2011 12:07 PM
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Stone193
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<<

<< FYI
Here is another example of how to tell a fake and authentic Babe Ruth pin...

The 1935 Quaker Oats "CHAMPIONS" pin

This is a worthless modern fake
http://cgi.ebay.com/BABE-RUTH-1935-Quaker-Oats-Champion-Pin-Very-Sharp-/190433322453

This is authentic
http://cgi.ebay.com/BABE-RUTH-1935-Quaker-Oats-Champion-Pin-Very-Sharp-/190433322453

The easiest way to tell is to look at the "M" in "CHAMPIONS" The middle point of the "M" goes all the way to the bottom on the authentic pin, but only 1/2 way down on the fakes...
>>



You linked the same auction twice.
>>

He originally had the links typed and not "live" - here's what I think he had:

Now a live link of the other auction.

I'd like to know what's the "source" for this info - I knew nothing about this pin with respect to fakes.

-------------------------
Mike
63F Set

I only hold onto my hobby tight enough that it doesn't hold onto me.
 5/8/2011 12:38 PM
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fkw
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I fixed the link I hope so, I have no way of looking right now...

I have jungle internet, and it took me over 20 minutes just to get the PSA page that allows editing a message. If you ever see an error on my posts please give me 1/2 hour to fix lol

This damn PSA Message Board is the only website Ive ever found that kills the page loading and gives a page loading error alert if the page doesnt load in about 5 seconds and with my slow internet that 95+% of the time. (It took me about 150 times reloading the page before I was allowed to make the correction, real slow right now (Im on Mauna Loa in Hawaii). errrrrrrrrr!



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PreWar baseball "type card" collector
 5/8/2011 1:03 PM
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fkw
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This is the first time I can reply back..... (but I cant view the complete post yet so dont know whats all been said recently )

On the (nonbrass) B&W Champions pin, Ive owned about 15 of them over the years and have accidentally bought 2 of the fakes on eBay. In person there is a big difference in the quality of the image and the surface on the 2 fakes Ive had, the surface was duller (not smooth and shiny like the authentic one). The "M" is only one way to tell, if you also compare the spacing of most of the letters in relation to the image on pin there are slight differences too (ie "B" and brim of hat)... but once I saw the "M's" were different it takes less than a second to ID the fakes now. I dont know if anyone else knows, I havent posted about this pin before, and never read it before.

Both pins are the same size, and both pins have "Parisian Novelty Co. Chicago" on the bottom edge, ......... the fakes would fool someone if they didnt have the real one too.

PS. Other pins
I havent seen a known fake of the Brass Champions Pin (are there fakes?), Ive had many of them too...
The Esso info you have is correct too, I look at the stitching on the ball.
Both 1935 Era Dizzy Dean brass pins (post cereal) have been heavily faked as well with the lower quality being easy to see.

-------------------------
PreWar baseball "type card" collector
 5/9/2011 7:14 AM
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scmavl
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Do any of you know more about the brass Champions Ruth pin? I was told it was also a 1935 Quaker Oats pin. Were they premiums you had to send in for or were they inside the package?

-------------------------
I collect Harmon Killebrew.
 7/14/2014 10:10 AM
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Rho68
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Hey guys, I know this is an old thread but I just ran across it while looking for info on the brass 1935 Quaker Oats Babe Ruth pins. I just acquired one and was wondering if there are fakes of this one out there too. Also, does anybody know what they're made of ? Is it true brass ? I have no plans of selling it so I was wondering if it would be safe to clean it with something or should I just leave it alone ? I know normally it's best to leave these things alone, but I was just curious. Sorry for the zillion questions. Any help would be appreciated it !
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