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PCGS Currency assigns grades of PPQ. Should PCGS Coins assign grades of PQ?

I recently started picking up some PCGS PPQ graded currency. I like the fact that they grade some PPQ = Premium Paper Quality

NGC has the star designation, but their website states its just for eye appeal.

So post your opinion..... Pro and Cons.

Do you think PCGS Coins should start assigning grades of PQ on coins of Premium Quality for the grade? (examples F15PQ, XF45PQ, MS63PQ, MS65PQ )

I myself would like to see it and also would like to see a PQ graded coin be given some type of rating above a non PQ graded coin fror the registry sets. Just like a CAM gets a higher rating the a non CAM

Looking forward to your opinions.

Comments

  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    PMG uses an equivalent designation of "EPQ" that is similar to the "PPQ" designation used by PCGS Currency.

    It should be noted that those designations for currency do not denote premium quality. An "EPQ" or "PPQ" designation means that the note which carries the designation is completely original with original, crisp quality paper. Notes that are graded in the uncirculated grades that are without the designation denotes that the note has likely been pressed or is otherwise not totally original. Notes that grade in the uncirculated grades (60-70) should in theory all carry the designation and notes that don't are often difficult to sell and when they do they sell at prices that are back of the Greensheet bid numbers.

    Again, an "EPQ" or a "PPQ" designation is not the equivalent of "PQ" for coins.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,653 ✭✭✭
    Gawd no. Things are complicated enough already.

    This is an old argument anyway, being debated here before.
  • From the PCGS Currency website



    << <i>To distinguish notes that bear all the hallmarks of complete originality and outstanding paper quality for the grade, we will affix a “PPQ” (Premium Paper Quality) designation to the grade (e.g.: “Gem New 65PPQ”). These are notes that bear no visible evidence of restoration and that retain all signs of fully original paper quality, such as paper wave, embossing, and bold ink color and eye appeal, and that also have above average paper for the grade that is free of defects such as tears, pinholes, or other problems. This is not done to penalize those notes that are not fully original, as many are very collectible and highly valuable. Instead, this system is designed to reward those notes, both circulated and New, that possess premium paper quality and complete originality. It should be understood that even though a note may be fully original and free of any restoration, it still might not qualify for the “PPQ” designation. >>



    Why not reward coins, both circulated, uncirculated and proof, that show complete originality ex: not dipped, smooth surfaces, less they average nicks, etc. a coin that is borderline to the next higer grade?

    I would think this MS64 would fit the PQ designation. And in hand the luster is outstanding

    image
  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,653 ✭✭✭
    Why does a slab need to say it? I'd pay a premium for that coin if it's as good in hand. Do we really need the plastic to tell us everything?

    This is an age-old argument, NGC has it's * for eye appeal, no different here. It's been discussed and debated, and decided, long ago. Everything on a slab's label is a paid opinion. Learn to think
    for yourself. Even "original" is an opinion and not always correct.

  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,267 ✭✭✭
    Are you trying to put CAC out of business?
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star.
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Are you trying to put CAC out of business? >>

    CAC is doing a fine job selecting the better coins in holders from both PCGS and NGC.



    << <i>The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star. >>

    image
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • I agree with WTCG, I think you have the definition of PPQ incorrect in your mind.

    The designation tells you something that you would not be able to otherwise ascertain since the note is in a holder. Paper quality is a tangible thing, and if they didn't list it, you would have to "crack" the note out of the holder to know for sure.

    I'm not sure there's something in coins I can equate it to, perhaps FBL or some other designation? But it does not mean that the note is "PQ" for the grade, just that the paper quality is excellent.
    image
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  • Let's do school grades!!!

    Add +/- to the letters and we all know what that means! MS64- will tell you it barely makes the grade but it's better than 63. Same goes for a MS64+ but no extra credit will be accepted!!
  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,653 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star. >>


    I agree. But the previous debates over the years on this compared the two.

    Who wants to see PCGS add a PQ Designation - Sep 2008

    It's time for a PCGS PQ Designation (because NGC has it's star) - From 2004



  • rld14rld14 Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭
    PPQ = Premium Paper Quality

    Coins aren't made out of paper image
    Bear's "Growl of Approval" award 10/09 & 3/10 | "YOU SUCK" - PonyExpress8|"F the doctors!" - homerunhall | I hate my car


  • << <i>Are you trying to put CAC out of business? >>



    This would not put CAC out of bussiness...... But it would add to a coins value to have a PCGS PQ grade and a cac sticker.

    CAC does not mean PQ, It means it meets CAC grading standards

    They could still sticker a PQ graded coin. Either green or gold.

    For example all MS65s are not equal there is a range. I had heard that an unwritten grading system between some dealers in already in place using A,B or C

    Anyone else heard of this?
  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,653 ✭✭✭
    Let me guess. It's a "C" coin when you sell to them, and an "A" coin when you buy it. Dealers do things all the time to manipulate the market to their personal advantage. It's wrong, but that's
    life. It's why PCGS was established - to reduce the scams and fraud and establish a market wide standard. Believe me, a lot of unscrupulous dealers will go the extra mile to discredit PCGS and return
    to the old days.
  • 2ndCharter2ndCharter Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭✭✭
    WTCG is correct - you're talking apples and oranges here.

    "PQ" on coins is merely an opinion whereas "PPQ" and "EPQ" relate to the originality of the paper of a note.

    Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>WTCG is correct - you're talking apples and oranges here.

    "PQ" on coins is merely an opinion whereas "PPQ" and "EPQ" relate to the originality of the paper of a note. >>



    ....................which is also merely an opinion.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star. >>



    I actually love the * designation

    MJ







    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭
    No.

    Not unless they want to start a revolution. image
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Only if we are determined to not "force" collectors to develop their own opinions of a coin at all.
  • IMHO sub grades are the future. I would like to see a individual grade breakdown. Different grades for surface, luster, edge, strike. Then an overall grade accounting for the grades. For example, the coin receives a grades of 65.8 for surface, 65.5 for luster, 65 for edge, and 65.9 for strike. The overall grade should be 65.6. TPG baseball cards currently do this. It would put CAC out of business but it would be nice to know how much more PQ your coin is from the assigned grade.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not another freakin' qualifier... they are all opinions to begin with, now you want another hair splitting qualifier? Ridiculous. Learn to grade, learn well - save money. Cheers, RickO
  • I agree with Quarter collector. Its only a matter of time. CAC, unfortunately for them I feel like they will be out of buisness over this someday, i totally agree. Either that or CAC are the ones that need to change things and improve the whole idea before someone else takes them out.. Than again maybe it should just not matter. Kind of takes some of the fun out. I tend to lean towards ricko's thinking, just learn to grade and leave it all alone..
    Winner of the "You Suck!" award March 17, 2010 by LanLord, doh, 123cents and Bear.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>IMHO sub grades are the future. I would like to see a individual grade breakdown. Different grades for surface, luster, edge, strike. Then an overall grade accounting for the grades. For example, the coin receives a grades of 65.8 for surface, 65.5 for luster, 65 for edge, and 65.9 for strike. The overall grade should be 65.6. TPG baseball cards currently do this. It would put CAC out of business but it would be nice to know how much more PQ your coin is from the assigned grade. >>



    Are you serious? Grades to one tenth of a point?image

    I'd be happy if they could consistently get it to a single point.






    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • fiftysevenerfiftysevener Posts: 896 ✭✭✭✭

    @golfer72 said:
    The NGC Star is meaningless since its for eye appeal which is completely subjective. PQ would just be adding more sub grades to existing grades which is different than the NGC star.

    IMHO NGC Star designation ends up being more than just eye appeal. It can mean extra heavy contrast, original skin or color and a few other descriptive points that other TPG's may give a grade bump but wouldn't be fair due to technical surface preservation. I've always thought PCGS should have a special marker for these certain special coins and still wonder why they don't.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No.
    It seems like a descriptor rather than a "grade."

  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,353 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Isn't that what the "+" grade is for?
    "+" = PQ for the grade.

    GrandAm :)
  • HemisphericalHemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just thinking... this thread is older than some YNs. :)

  • AstroJoeAstroJoe Posts: 304 ✭✭✭

    For me PQ = + grade. Kind of subjective, especially if looking at eye appeal.

    I have a PCI 1879-S Morgan at MS65 PQ, (first slab I bought, before I heard of PCGS).
    Would it cross to a 65+? 66?

    I would say no, just because of the subjectivity.

    However, would grading MS coins 60 and over have 1/4 grades or .1 grades (this one will add 100 grading points for 60-70) be next?

    Just thinking out loud.

    Joe

    Everything is all right!
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,547 ✭✭✭✭✭

    PQ is a subjective marketing term. Pcgs already assigns the plus designation so their using PQ wb redundant.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency

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