Problem Coins. Love em? or Hate em?

AnkurJ · March 18, 2010 11:38AM

So there is always a lot of discussion on problem coins. Whether or now one should buy them, stay away, if they are a way to afford expensive coins. I am sure that almost all of us have some problem coins in our collection.

I know that most people here can't afford a Chain Cent without some problems. So what does everyone feel about these? People say buy the best coin you can afford, and that sometimes might be a coin with problems. There are also some problems on early coins that seem to be termed "acceptable" such as on Flowing hair dollars and other early type. I have seen many of these coins in graded slabs by PCGS and NGC.

I am thinking about going for an early gold half eagle that has an old cleaning, but is otherwise an AU coin. These do go for decent amounts, and I do feel they have a place in the market.
AJ

BBN · March 18, 2010 11:53AM

I don't mind for my 7070, especially for an otherwise expensive coin

crazyhounddog · March 18, 2010 11:59AM

I guess it depends on what the problem is, like problem color is a good example, sometime I look at a coin deemed questionable color and just wonder....

BaseballAbs · March 18, 2010 12:03PM

If its replaceable it matters and i won't usually buy it. If its rare i may not care.

Baley · March 18, 2010 12:06PM

probems are unacceptable on coins that are cheap and readily available in problem-free condition

with rare and expensive coins problems become more tolerable, for some collectors. others wont tolerate any problems and would rather do without than have suffer imperfections

with very rare and very expensive coins, accepting major problems may be the only way to obtain an example at all. (unless the collector is filthy rich)

AnkurJ · March 18, 2010 12:14PM

So for most coins from 1793 to lets say 1800, problems are tolerable? Would that be the general concensus?

Now obviously coins that are corroded beyond recognition or have major grafitti etc are not really acceptable to most people.

kaz · March 18, 2010 12:18PM

Some of my problem coins were purchased because of an abundance of detail which was more pleasing to me than an unmolested, but more flattened example. One must make choices at times in the face of limited resources.

Broadstruck · March 18, 2010 12:19PM

This was my favorite problem coin purchased last year.

It's in a ANACS Unc Details Cleaned Net AU55 holder with no mention of the Ultimate Full Head.

It's the best FH I've seen on any 26-D which Jay Cline rates at 1% of total mintage for the issue.

RedTiger · March 18, 2010 2:50PM

I confess a weakness for problem coins, even relatively common ones. I'd like to say that I've learned to stay away from problem coins, but I have not. Over the years, I have learned the hard lesson that most dealers typically offer very low on them, if they offer at all. Some of the same dealers might ask close to retail price when it is their turn to sell.

I have also learned that a good many collectors don't want any part of a coin if they believe it has problems. The rub is that some collectors are way too harsh and only want "theoretical coins," because virtually all the real world examples do have minor problems, or too easy and are fooled by the high quality doctored coins that dominate certain market segments and buy "faux original."

As I always tell folks, collect what you like and enjoy the hobby. Especially for those on a limited budget, problem coins at the right price points can be a fun and enjoyable way to approach the hobby. Don't worry about what other folks might think. Do go in with eyes open as far as real world wholesale and retail prices for coins with problems.

StubbyMcNumbthumbs · March 18, 2010 3:25PM

<< I confess a weakness for problem coins, even relatively common ones. I'd like to say that I've learned to stay away from problem coins, but I have not. Over the years, I have learned the hard lesson that most dealers typically offer very low on them, if they offer at all. Some of the same dealers might ask close to retail price when it is their turn to sell.

I have also learned that a good many collectors don't want any part of a coin if they believe it has problems. The rub is that some collectors are way too harsh and only want "theoretical coins," because virtually all the real world examples do have minor problems, or too easy and are fooled by the high quality doctored coins that dominate certain market segments and buy "faux original."

As I always tell folks, collect what you like and enjoy the hobby. Especially for those on a limited budget, problem coins at the right price points can be a fun and enjoyable way to approach the hobby. Don't worry about what other folks might think. Do go in with eyes open as far as real world wholesale and retail prices for coins with problems. >>

I agree. I've got a few coins that most would consider "problem coins". To me, they're simply coins with a little rougher history than others, like a lot of people I know. I still accept them (the coins) because I personally don't mind the look of them (on a case-by-case basis, obviously) and it allows me to acquire some that I wouldn't otherwise be able to. I figure I can always upgrade, if a better one comes along. It's my hobby, not my business.

PerryHall · March 18, 2010 9:44PM

Nothing wrong with problem coins if you can get them cheap enough. In many cases "cheap enough" is face value or melt value.

QuarterCollector · March 18, 2010 10:57PM

<< If its replaceable it matters and i won't usually buy it. If its rare i may not care. >>

I agree, certain series, especially if you collect die marriages, are impossible to find problem free. Take my 1831 Browning 7 bust quarter for instance. Of the 10 or so I know of none are problem free. Dick Osburn's is scratched. Rich Uhrich's are cleaned and scratched. Mine is plugged.

Tom

Baley · March 19, 2010 1:02AM

so here ya go... sure it's not beautiful for the damage, but let's see another collector post an 1805 B-5

or a 1797 13-star

tough tough coins that cost a fortune problem free, if you can even find one

mozin · March 19, 2010 6:30AM

No problem coins for me, unless they are at least R5.

pakasmom · March 19, 2010 6:34AM

<< I don't mind for my 7070, especially for an otherwise expensive coin >>

Same here.

dsessom · March 19, 2010 6:39AM

I bought this 1835 Bust half because it was just $40 and had so much detail. But as you can see, it's got a few problems.
Anyway, it's my newest pocket piece now.

TwoSides2aCoin · March 19, 2010 6:48AM

This is one of my great conundrums. Kudos on a good question.

oldfolkie · March 19, 2010 8:20AM

In my 7070 there are at least 6 "problem" coins, and maybe a couple more. To the eye they are all pleasing, at least to me. I wanted a lot of detail and could afford it no other way. The problems, again, to me are minor. Small nicks on the rim or tiny scratches on the surfaces that aren't seen at all without the right light. A little corrosion on my Classic Head cent is the only obvious mark, but even that is limited to a small area on the reverse. I'm thankful so many think of them as problem coins. The only thing that I won't buy is a coin with a dead, unnatural, over-cleaned, or over-dipped surface.

determined · March 19, 2010 9:20AM

<< I confess a weakness for problem coins, even relatively common ones. I'd like to say that I've learned to stay away from problem coins, but I have not. Over the years, I have learned the hard lesson that most dealers typically offer very low on them, if they offer at all. Some of the same dealers might ask close to retail price when it is their turn to sell.

I have also learned that a good many collectors don't want any part of a coin if they believe it has problems. The rub is that some collectors are way too harsh and only want "theoretical coins," because virtually all the real world examples do have minor problems, or too easy and are fooled by the high quality doctored coins that dominate certain market segments and buy "faux original."

As I always tell folks, collect what you like and enjoy the hobby. Especially for those on a limited budget, problem coins at the right price points can be a fun and enjoyable way to approach the hobby. Don't worry about what other folks might think. Do go in with eyes open as far as real world wholesale and retail prices for coins with problems. >>

Very well said RedTiger!

kaz · March 19, 2010 9:24AM

I would not have been able to afford a DBQ with this much detail were it not for the 'problems':

StubbyMcNumbthumbs · March 19, 2010 9:56AM

Personally, I wouldn't call that quarter a "problem coin". For what it is, I think it's just fine.

Anyone who sees that as a problem coin, I could easily imagine to be the kind of person to say "I want nothing to do with my grandmother because she has lots of wrinkles and can't stand up straight."

But that's just my opinion.

TennesseeDave · March 19, 2010 10:05AM

I don't want coins that are holed,bent, with bad rims or grafitti,but am willing to accept a coin that has been very lightly cleaned or dipped as long as it isn't badly hairlined.

kaz · March 19, 2010 10:48AM

<< Personally, I wouldn't call that quarter a "problem coin". For what it is, I think it's just fine.

Anyone who sees that as a problem coin, I could easily imagine to be the kind of person to say "I want nothing to do with my grandmother because she has lots of wrinkles and can't stand up straight."

But that's just my opinion.

>>

LOL! The problem is a little hard to spot. It is some micro-graffiti to the right of the right-hand wing of the eagle. very hard to spot. I can live with it.

kaz · March 19, 2010 10:49AM

<< I don't want coins that are holed,bent, with bad rims or grafitti,but am willing to accept a coin that has been very lightly cleaned or dipped as long as it isn't badly hairlined. >>

I'm on a similar wavelength, Dave.

AnkurJ · March 19, 2010 11:18AM

At this moment, I am working on a holed 7070 set, so I have to accept holeys for that

AnkurJ · March 19, 2010 11:25AM

And this is my fav problem coin. NCS F 12. No corrosion, just a load of hits. Amazing detail though!

Ankur

HoledandCreative · March 19, 2010 3:57PM

I collect problem coins and I have had a lot of fun doing it. The rarer the better. That is a nice half dime, Baley, I wish I had one like it. Ankur, you should show your holey 7070, too. I would enjoy looking at it very much.

johnny9434 · March 19, 2010 9:55PM

i try and stay away from problem coins, rare or not

. have a great weekend all

lkenefic · March 19, 2010 10:10PM

I think it depends upon the price point at which you're buying a problem coin. If the problem is taken into consideration and reflected in the price, some "problems" become acceptable. However, these problems will become the bane of your existence when you try to sell.

BillJones · March 19, 2010 10:30PM

For whatever reason my tolerance for problems coins is a bit higher for copper, less for silver and very low for gold.

In any case, the ultimate killer for me is a hole that should not be there. When is a hole okay? Some of the political pieces I collect have holes, and that's okay because people need to hole so that they could wear the coin on their coat, vest or shirt. Here is an example from the 1884 presidential election when James G. Blaine lost to Grover Cleveland. The ribbin that is through the hole was used to hang the piece on a button or pin.

JedPlanchet · March 19, 2010 10:53PM

I like problem coins, because they allow me to afford coins I'd otherwise not be able to buy (like an 1877 IHC). The trick for me is to find the type of problem that is not too distracting (like rim clips).

AnkurJ · March 19, 2010 10:57PM

Here are one of my holeys. It was inexpensive, and the details are quite nice. Sadly of course it was cleaned and holed.

And another one for my holey 7070 set.

Ankur

Baley · March 20, 2010 2:00AM

the hole is perhaps the ultimate problem, I confess a weakness for a hole that causes a really old coin A) to be preserved in high detail condition,

have original surfaces because why bother clean it 50 years ago, and C) be affordable in a net VG or so price range today

sometimes holed and other damaged coins are part of a larger deal, and one starts an accumulation, these are all holed at 12 o'clock

like LordM, Holedandcreative, AjkurJ, and many others, I don't mind the contemporary hole as a subset of a larger collection in problem free but lower grade

RYK · March 20, 2010 2:04AM

<< probems are unacceptable on coins that are cheap and readily available in problem-free condition

with rare and expensive coins problems become more tolerable, for some collectors. others wont tolerate any problems and would rather do without than have suffer imperfections

with very rare and very expensive coins, accepting major problems may be the only way to obtain an example at all. (unless the collector is filthy rich) >>

Well-stated.

I was going to reply: It depends on the coin and depends on the problem.

If it is a coin radily obtainable and affordable in the problem-free state, I would pass. If it is a coin that unavailable to me (read: unaffordable) without a minor problem, I might be interested. Coins with holes, have hideous scratches, that look too bright or obviously AT'ed don't generally float my boat, so I pass on these.

okracer · March 20, 2010 2:29AM

I will collect problem coins.....that allowed me to have a complete set of Large Cents, including 1793 Chain, 1793 Wreath, 1793 Lib Cap, 1794 Starred Reverse, 1799, 1804, including several Sheldon R5-R6+ coins.

....how many times have you looked at a coin and think "I like that one", only to be talked out of it because other folks say "problem", etc.

...I wonder if we get too caught up in calling coins "problem", rather than "unique", "character", "history", "I bet it has a story to tell",..........

AnkurJ · March 20, 2010 11:25AM

Okracer: I agree! The problem coins with the most character in my opinion are those with counterstamps and interesting grafitti!

Problem Coins. Love em? or Hate em?

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