What exactly does CDN bid/ask mean to you??
keets
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This seems to be a very confusing thing, at least to me. Some will say that it's the buy-sell prices that dealers use, but they don't. Some will say that collectors aren't dealers so they shouldn't even use the CDN. Some will say it's wholesale, but what I see is 10% back of bid and so on. Very confusing......................
So please tell me what CDN bid/ask means to you. Thanks in advance.
Al H.
So please tell me what CDN bid/ask means to you. Thanks in advance.
Al H.
0
Comments
WS
In the market there are bluesheet coins, greysheet coins, and retail coins. This is how I generally look at the sheets. This may not apply to everybody and there's a good chance that my point of view may not be in-line with everyone else's based on the niche in the market they may be a part of. I'm also thinking of this in terms of classic coins. I'm not as familliar with the modern or commodity type market that many others are involved in but I'm sure it's heavily reliant on bluesheet prices especially for buying large fairly common raw collections and in that sense, it is a valuable tool.
Bluesheet coins will never sell (or hopefully shouldn't) sell more than bluesheet prices. These are the coins that are the result of overgrading and people are sucked into the label. I have occasionally found decent coins at just above bluesheet prices but it was in larger bulk deals that needed alot of weeding out and extra work to find acceptable coins in it. These are definitely the cheapest prices you will find for a coin of the date you are looking for.
Greysheet coins can run the gamut of fugly to attractive and their prices float between greysheet levels of next down and next up grade values.
Retail coins are the ones that you will only occasionally find at greysheet levels but typically trade on the wholesale level above greysheet prices and sometimes have a stable market well above greysheet prices. Think nicely toned coins, prooflike coins, shot upgrades, hot-spot series the market, ect.
to me it's gibberish i hear time to time
i can see how a dealer is presented with a vast amount of stock that he may have no clue of all prices and use it for a reference on profit margins
myself...a collector though
i use heritage/ebay and my gutt for what i'll bid or ask
i'm sure it had great importance in it's day before heritage/ebay auction price archives but now...that cat is out of the bag
why would i sell at or below bid when i can get ask plus with heritage/ebay vehicles in place
i'd think oneday the greysheet will turn black...just my 2 cent piece
coin prices are simply what the next inline will pay (it's how they go up or down) and past sales mean less then others present
All dealers are different. A another good question would be if dealers that specialize in a particular series like eagle eye, use the guide at all for the same purpose above.
.........why not ask for the same as a retailer asks for the coin? when you see it advertised for x amount of money why should you HAVE TO sell to a dealer and not a collector?
to make things even sillier is that dealers often sell at "BID" so they buy at "BID minus" usually around 10-15%.
<< <i>I think the reason for the confusion is that it's used in ways not intended by the publisher. The values reported are supposed to be (according to CDN) for wholesale dealer to dealer transactions, but the greysheet is easily obtained by retail buyers, enough of whom expect to actually be able to buy at the listed prices. I think a lot of dealers just find it easier to use CDN prices as more of a retail (for you, a special price) starting point for selling instead of trying to explain exactly what the values are supposed to mean and factor this into their buy (10%-20% back of bid) prices. >>
So if a dealer is willing to sell coin "x" to another dealer at sheet....why wouldnt he want to sell it to a CUSTOMER at the same price?
<< <i>it suggests that a dealer would buy from another dealer at "ASK" and sell to another dealer at "ASK" so nobody would be using the "BUY" price in a crazy sort of way, if you believe it's for dealer-dealer transactions. >>
I believe the "bid" value is intended to be what a dealer who wants to buy the coin is offering and the "ask" value is what a dealer who has the coin wants for it.
<< <i>to make things even sillier is that dealers often sell at "BID" so they buy at "BID minus" usually around 10-15%. >>
As I suggested above, since retail buyers often want to use greysheet pricing when buying, I think it's probably easier to just go with the flow and offer less than bid when buying in order to be able to sell at bid and still make a profit.
<< <i>So if a dealer is willing to sell coin "x" to another dealer at sheet....why wouldnt he want to sell it to a CUSTOMER at the same price? >>
Who knows? If I had to guess, it's because sales to other dealers generally involve less hassles than sales to retail customers. Or it could be something else entirely- you'd have to ask the specific dealer to be sure.
Here's what it says at the bottom of the greysheet (some parts have been snipped out for brevity:
The weekly COIN DEALER newsletter (the Greysheet) reports the national Dealer–to–Dealer wholesale coin market, monitoring all possible transactions and offers to buy and sell coins sight–seen.
Prices reported derive from the highest legitimate Bids and lowest legitimate Asks seen nationally; they do not necessarily reflect the levels at which any particular dealer might offer to buy or sell that coin.
INVESTOR/COLLECTOR NOTE: The prices in this newsletter are from Dealer–to–Dealer transactions; you should expect to pay a premium above Ask when purchasing coins in a retail transaction; you may also commission a Dealer for your purchases.
I would think that if you use this (or any) tool in a way that is not intended, the results might possibly be unproductive.
<< <i>So please tell me what CDN bid/ask means to you. >>
Doesn't mean a thing to me, personally. However if I sold coins to dealers, bid would mean something as I would expect their offers to be based on this number.
it's a guide to happiness
if I find a desirable coin for ask, I am happy
On the primal level of consciousness it means the union of all spirits of creation and anti-creation; light and dark being one. It is the great singularity of all universes and source of time. Its meaning transcends all conception by sentient beings and is totally incomprehensible – totally unrecognizable – by all.
dead nuts accurate
or
way too low
or
way too high
Depending on the series and grade, any one of the 3 can apply. But for frequently traded coins the first one is usually the case. For the others, it's pot luck. Know your series and your pricing.
roadrunner
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
to get the general feel for an item. CDN is something i never bothered
to get or even look at for more then just a glance. Ebay/heritage/etc..
tell me what i need to know for the most part when it comes to coins.
<< <i>Since "sheet" is for raw coins how many add a premium fo NGC or PCGS slabbed coins? >>
Blue sheet is for "sight-unseen" slabbed coins... they list PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG...
Grey Sheet is for "all properly graded coins" sight-seen, whether slabbed or raw.
The best thing I have come up with to say to someone who insists on trying to purchase a coin, that IS NOT a widget, by "the sheet"...
I simply and kindly suggest that they go buy an example of the coin from the publishers at CDN...
<< <i>3 things.
dead nuts accurate
or
way too low
or
way too high
Depending on the series and grade, any one of the 3 can apply. But for frequently traded coins the first one is usually the case. For the others, it's pot luck. Know your series and your pricing.
roadrunner >>
I generally agree, but there are some baffling inconsistencies. For example, I will sell you circ 38-D Walkers at 15% back of bid and I will make good money - they trade much lower. I will buy every circ 1857 large cent that you have at the sheet, and promptly sell them for profit. Why is this? No idea. Some issues are just priced wrong consistently.
For eye-appealing rarites, or overgraded junk, sheet it not really that relevant.
merse
Sometimes, dealers who are searching for certain coins or series of coins will intentionally not put numeric bids on the market to prevent the Greysheet Bids from increasing. They will simply tell you to offer them for a quote. Some coins like early coppers, early quarters, key date $5 Indians and others are nearly to purchase at Greysheet levels. The reason is that these levels to not reflect the true market for these coins, as the levels are being held artifically low.
What you learn very quickly is that, like any other price guide, the Greysheet is only a guide. It is also something that can be and is manipulated in both price directions. The continuous challenge is figuring out what areas are being manipulated and in which direction.
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