Recieved this from E-bayer?
CoinMaster1229
Posts: 1,092 ✭✭
This person purchased $ 700.00 worth of coins from me. payment waiting to clear, then I recieve this message.
Dear sir,
I've been going over my cashback account and it appears I may have made a mistake. I don't remember exactly what was shown on the screen when I sent the echeck, but looking back I probably was supposed to pay for these seperately. When the payment clears and I receive the cashback message, I will know for sure if I received the full discount. However, would you do me the favor of delaying shipment until I sort this out? Worst case scenario, I would request that you refund the payment and let me pay again in two transactions. I have plenty of money in my paypal account now and could do this asap. Refer to account gold_reflactor - this is my main account, which has 100% feedback over 500 transactions. Thanks for your patience.
What would you do?
Dear sir,
I've been going over my cashback account and it appears I may have made a mistake. I don't remember exactly what was shown on the screen when I sent the echeck, but looking back I probably was supposed to pay for these seperately. When the payment clears and I receive the cashback message, I will know for sure if I received the full discount. However, would you do me the favor of delaying shipment until I sort this out? Worst case scenario, I would request that you refund the payment and let me pay again in two transactions. I have plenty of money in my paypal account now and could do this asap. Refer to account gold_reflactor - this is my main account, which has 100% feedback over 500 transactions. Thanks for your patience.
What would you do?
0
Comments
Millertime
Complete Dime Set
1) He sends you an Echeck.
2) Your bank says it clears.
3) You send him the $.
4) He stops pmt. on the Echeck.
5) Your bank takes the $ out of your account.
It's that simple...
<< <i>Red flag... He wants YOU to refund his pmt.... nope.. don't do it. Tell him to stop the process on his end.. It'd be simple for him to steal $ from you...
1) He sends you an Echeck.
2) Your bank says it clears.
3) You send him the $.
4) He stops pmt. on the Echeck.
5) Your bank takes the $ out of your account.
It's that simple... >>
I hate to be cynical, but I agree.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
As another poster said, you should not pay a refund directly to this buyer, otherwise you will get scammed.
As long as you follow that little rule, you are in an interesting situation. I certainly would not go and mail the items to this seller if they are telling you to hold off! Let them play their little game but by all means, protect yourself!
Remind the buyer that you have a 30 day window for that refund and that if the investigation takes too long, you will not be willing nor able to refund that money; it must occur within the PayPal time window for refunds (which might be 30 or 60 days actually, check with PayPal)
<< <i>Red flag... He wants YOU to refund his pmt.... nope.. don't do it. Tell him to stop the process on his end.. It'd be simple for him to steal $ from you...
1) He sends you an Echeck.
2) Your bank says it clears.
3) You send him the $.
4) He stops pmt. on the Echeck.
5) Your bank takes the $ out of your account.
It's that simple... >>
I bid on an item and didn't catch the grade on the coin was different than the text so the seller informed me and refunded my payment. You're saying if I wasn't honest I could have ripped him. I thought echecks were instant payments and once done couldn't be reversed, which is why I use CC on eBay so that I have an extra layer of protection.
I am assuming using the PayPal procedure to refund the payment.
Millertime
Complete Dime Set
This is the line that doesn't ring true to me. Once the payment has been made via paypal he will immediately receive a message in his Myebay indicating the cashback discount. He would know the answer to this prior to messaging you.
<< <i>
<< <i>Red flag... He wants YOU to refund his pmt.... nope.. don't do it. Tell him to stop the process on his end.. It'd be simple for him to steal $ from you...
1) He sends you an Echeck.
2) Your bank says it clears.
3) You send him the $.
4) He stops pmt. on the Echeck.
5) Your bank takes the $ out of your account.
It's that simple... >>
I bid on an item and didn't catch the grade on the coin was different than the text so the seller informed me and refunded my payment. You're saying if I wasn't honest I could have ripped him. I thought echecks were instant payments and once done couldn't be reversed, which is why I use CC on eBay so that I have an extra layer of protection.
I am assuming using the PayPal procedure to refund the payment.
Millertime >>
There are electronic ach transfers and echecks on paypal. The echeck takes several days to clear. The ACH is instantaneous (similar to CC), if the ACH doesn't go through for some reason, Paypal taps your cc.
tries to cancel his echeck..
"This is the line that doesn't ring true to me. Once the payment has been made via paypal he will immediately receive a message in his Myebay indicating the cashback discount. He would know the answer to this prior to messaging you."
The buyer knew before completing the purchase.
Sounds like this buyer is a 0 FB buyer asking you to take a risk with a fishy story.
This one's got red flags all over it.
<< <i>Red flag... He wants YOU to refund his pmt.... nope.. don't do it. Tell him to stop the process on his end.. It'd be simple for him to steal $ from you...
1) He sends you an Echeck.
2) Your bank says it clears.
3) You send him the $.
4) He stops pmt. on the Echeck.
5) Your bank takes the $ out of your account.
It's that simple... >>
You cannot do a "Stop Payment" on an echeck.
"I have an update folks. From the PayPal Help Pages. (Ref: Cancel eCheck )
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Can I cancel a payment that I've already sent?
A: You can cancel only unclaimed payments. If your payment is complete, please contact the recipient of the payment to request a refund.
Unclaimed payments can be canceled for the following reasons:
• A payment sent to an email address is not associated with a PayPal account.
Once the email address is added to a PayPal account, the payment is automatically credited to the balance of that account.
• A payment is sent to a recipient with an unconfirmed email address.
For security reasons, PayPal can only credit payments sent to a confirmed email address.
If you cancel an eCheck payment or Instant Transfer, PayPal cannot cancel the withdrawal from your bank account. The amount will be credited to your PayPal account balance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Please note: The eCheck reference above is still applicable to "unclaimed payments" meaning that even though the "unclaimed payment" was cancelled, Paypal will still transfer the money from your bank account into your Paypal account.
As an experiment, I send an eCheck from my selling Paypal accounts to my buying Paypal account and was unable to cancel the transaction. "
As an additional followup, despite my efforts to cancel the transaction, it did go through.
The name is LEE!
The email message matches the MO of a common SCAM. That does NOT
mean this is a SCAM.
I would do NOTHING until the guy's money is out of PP and in my hands.
Or, until he files an INR. If it's a SCAM, the INR will follow soon after he
sees you are not going to do a refund via "send money."
email to buyer:
"Thanks for the notice. Let me know when you want me to ship the items."
Or, you could simply not respond at all.
..................
If you end up shipping, don't forget to use signature-confirmation and insurance.
Dozens of agencies now specialize in collecting funds on STOPPED echecks.
echeckcollections
Sounds like the guy screwed up on his chance of a cashback when he made the purchase. You've got the coins AND the money, you are in the driver's seat. No real way he can scam you. Until he receives the coins, it is his money. If you are worried that he can scam you, refund his money, open a dispute and state that transaction mutually cancelled by both parties. You will get your fees back. Then add him to your blocked bidders list so you don't have to deal with him again.
Do not work with him on re-arranging payment. Just tell him that you don't want to take the chance of getting scammed. Ask him if he wants the coins that he has already paid for. If so, ship them, if not, refund his money and get your fees back.
If you understand what is coming, then you can duck. If not, then you get sucker-punched. - Martin Armstrong
I then called my bank regarding cancelling ACH transactions, which is what eChecks are, and they need 3 business days to cancel them along with a specific ACH transaction number.
With echecks, Paypal, instead of transferring out of your PayPal account, initiates an ACH Transaction to your bank. Once they've been initiated, it takes quite a bit to cancel them even at the FUNDING SOURCE.
Try it yourself to see if you can do it instead of speculating and kabitzing that it can be done. I'm sure you wise folks have multiple accounts with which to play.
Cancelling an eCheck is not as simple as some folks would have you believe.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>The issuer CAN stop payment on an echeck.
Dozens of agencies now specialize in collecting funds on STOPPED echecks.
echeckcollections >>
Sellers who accept paypal do not accept echecks. Paypal accepts echecks. Stop payments are refunded by paypal who then tries to take the money from you. This is why you never leave a balance in you paypal account. When paypal attempts to recover the funds from you and you have a zero balance in your paypal account, they will contact you requesting the funds back. You tell them that you will be happy to do so when paypal returns your merchandise. Worst case - paypal shuts down your account (that has a zero balance). Then you open another one.
Paypal has access to your paypal balance at all times. They will not hesitate to take it first and ask questions later. Do not make it easy for them by leaving a balance in your account.
If you understand what is coming, then you can duck. If not, then you get sucker-punched. - Martin Armstrong
///////////////////
Nor, nearly as "impossible" as some folks would have you believe.
Paypal has access to your paypal balance at all times. They will not hesitate to take it first and ask questions later. Do not make it easy for them by leaving a balance in your account. "
////////////////////////
All fine and well.
PayPal is indeed the "merchant of record" in ALL transactions that EBAY
sellers/buyers process through PP.
That elementary point is well known to most folks.
The issue in my point is ONLY that an ACH transaction - or an "echeck" - can be STOPPED by the maker/initiator.
<< <i>Red flag... He wants YOU to refund his pmt.... nope.. don't do it. Tell him to stop the process on his end.. It'd be simple for him to steal $ from you... 1) He sends you an Echeck. 2) Your bank says it clears. 3) You send him the $. 4) He stops pmt. on the Echeck. 5) Your bank takes the $ out of your account. It's that simple... >>
Can you say, "paranoia"? I would gladly help him out. --Jerry
All I can say is if the feller ws planning on doing this, I hope he wrote down the reference number as I can find no reference number in either my online account or my statements that references the eCheck I sent myself.
But, lets go in another direction.
Suppose the eCheck Clears? What then?
Can he still cancel it or should he wait and file a Not as Described?
Anyway you look at it, eCheck or direct payment, if anybody is going to scam a buyer they'll have to do some upfront work.
All I'm trying to say, is that cancelling an eCheck is not as simple as some would have you believe as they cannot be cancelled from PayPal. The ACH transaction can be cancelled at the payment source (i.e. your bank) but to do so requires time. In my banks case, 3 business days.
The name is LEE!
With that said I am not sure I'd work with the guy.
Too much BS for me.
Steve
/////////////////////////////
Correct.
And, the "3 days" is our banks' CYA statement. The stop can happen in minutes, or it can take longer.
...................................
Can he still cancel it or should he wait and file a Not as Described?"
////////////
He can ask his bank to reverse the transfer based on "fraud or mistake,"
provided he furnishes an affidavit of the circumstances. The bank will make
an effort to help, but if the money has been removed from the receiving
account, it is pretty much gone.
PayPal is the remedy for such a defrauded buyer. He can file a SNAD or the
less desirable INR. PP covers him up to the buyer protection limit assigned
to the seller. (PP will soon remove those limits, and cover all buyers for the
total amount of the purchase.)
<< <i>"Suppose the eCheck Clears? What then?
Can he still cancel it or should he wait and file a Not as Described?"
////////////
He can ask his bank to reverse the transfer based on "fraud or mistake,"
provided he furnishes an affidavit of the circumstances. The bank will make
an effort to help, but if the money has been removed from the receiving
account, it is pretty much gone.
PayPal is the remedy for such a defrauded buyer. He can file a SNAD or the
less desirable INR. PP covers him up to the buyer protection limit assigned
to the seller. (PP will soon remove those limits, and cover all buyers for the
total amount of the purchase.) >>
And on and on and On!
The bottom line when dealing whith ANY eBayer is that you can get screwed!
Buyers buys a coin, pays with paypal, files an item not received. Seller loses.
Fine, buy insurance and delivery confirmation!
Buyers buys a coin, pays with paypal, signs for package, claims package was empty, files an item not received. Seller loses.
OR
Buyers buys a coin, pays with paypal, signs for package, files an item not as described, sends back different coin! Seller loses.
OR
Buyer buys a coin, pays with a credit card and files a charge back 30 days after receiving the coin! Seller Loses!
OR
Yada Yada Yada
OR
Yada Yada Yada
When dealing with unverifiable individuals online, you always run a risk. If you don;t want the risk, don't play online!
My take on the OP is that the buyer is being up front and the seller simply needs to wait until the funds clear and he has withdrawn them before shipping the coins. Regardless of what he does, if he's gonna get scammed, he's gonna get scammed.
I invite anybody to send me an echeck and then cancel it.
The name is LEE!