Poppage and disappointment...

clayshooter22 · June 27, 2008 6:30AM

Its like the graders have no clue on Star Co. issues. Maybe they don't have anything to compare because many of these are 1/1 submitted. At least that I could understand. There are printing defects on every card because they are on the printing plates. Quality control was non-exsistant at Star Co. I have more sets than I care to mention and these 9's have to be because of print lines...which are on 99% of all Star Co issues from these sets. I really don't think they know enough about the issue to grade. That has to be it, right?

I'm just disgusted at this sub. $280 bucks and 1/2 the cards that graded 9's were picked out of lots of 10-50 as the best examples. No way these should be 9's. Sorry but PSA missed on these. I have three more subs in right now and if they are going to crush my Star cards then I'm going to be pissed.

My last 5 subs of 100 cards don't have this many 8's COMBINED. OMG an 88 sportsflicks graded an 8? Those things could survive a nucleur explosion and still grade out at mint!

45 business days, on the nose.

Order #20190672 / Submission #632441
Line # Item # Cert # Grade Description Type Country
1 1 15233465 GEM MINT 10 1990 STAR GOLD EDITION 58 KIRBY PUCKETT ALL STAR STATS Card US
2 1 15233466 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1990 STAR GOLD EDITION 63 KIRBY PUCKETT PERSONAL DATA Card US
3 1 15233467 GEM MINT 10 1991 STAR GOLD EDITION 1 KIRBY PUCKETT MAJOR LEAGUE STATS Card US
4 1 15233468 MINT 9 1991 STAR GOLD EDITION 2 KIRBY PUCKETT MINOR LEAGUE STATS Card US
5 1 15233469 GEM MINT 10 1991 STAR GOLD EDITION 4 KIRBY PUCKETT ALL STAR STATS Card US
6 1 15233470 GEM MINT 10 1991 STAR GOLD EDITION 6 KIRBY PUCKETT INFO 2 Card US
7 1 15233471 MINT 9 1991 STAR GOLD EDITION 8 KIRBY PUCKETT 1989 AL BATTING CHAMP Card US
8 1 15233472 MINT 9 1991 STAR GOLD EDITION 9 KIRBY PUCKETT PERSONAL DATA Card US
9 1 15233473 MINT 9 1990 STAR PLATINUM EDITION 38 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
10 1 15233474 MINT 9 1990 STAR PLATINUM EDITION 39 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
11 1 15233475 GEM MINT 10 1991 STAR MILLENIUM EDITION 19 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
12 1 15233476 GEM MINT 10 1991 STAR MILLENIUM EDITION 20 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
13 1 15233477 MINT 9 1991 STAR MILLENIUM EDITION 21 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
14 1 15233478 MINT 9 1991 STAR MILLENIUM EDITION 22 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
15 1 15233479 MINT 9 1991 STAR MILLENIUM EDITION 23 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
16 1 15233480 MINT 9 1991 STAR MILLENIUM EDITION 25 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
17 1 15233481 MINT 9 1991 STAR MILLENIUM EDITION 26 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
18 1 15233482 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1991 STAR DIAMOND SERIES 82 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
19 1 15233483 MINT 9 1991 STAR DIAMOND SERIES 84 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
20 1 15233484 GEM MINT 10 1991 STAR DIAMOND SERIES 85 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
21 1 15233485 MINT 9 1991 STAR DIAMOND SERIES 86 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
22 1 15233486 MINT 9 1991 STAR DIAMOND SERIES 87 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
23 1 15233487 GEM MINT 10 1995 COLLECTOR'S CHOICE 77 KIRBY PUCKETT SILVER SIGNATURE Card US
24 1 15233488 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1988 KAYBEE TEAM LEADERS 26 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
25 1 15233489 MINT 9 1991 LEAF PREVIEW 21 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
26 1 15233490 GEM MINT 10 1993 FLEER TEAM LEADERS 1 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
27 1 15233491 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1996 DONRUSS PRESS PROOF 50 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
28 1 15233492 GEM MINT 10 1995 LEAF LIMITED LUMBERJACKS 7 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
29 1 15233493 GEM MINT 10 1994 STADIUM CLUB 359 KIRBY PUCKETT GOLDEN RAINBOW Card US
30 1 15233494 MINT 9 1987 TOPPS STICKERS 274 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
31 1 15233495 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1988 STAR SILVER EDITION 86 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
32 1 15233496 MINT 9 1989 FLEER BASEBALL ALL-STARS 32 KIRBY PUCKETT BASEBALL ALL-STARS Card US
33 1 15233497 MINT 9 1989 FLEER BASEBALL ALL-STARS 32 KIRBY PUCKETT BASEBALL ALL-STARS Card US
34 1 15233498 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1994 DONRUSS TRIPLE PLAY MEDALIST 11 BELLE/GRIFFY/PUCKT Card US
34 2 15233499 MINT 9 1992 ULTRA ALL-STARS 8 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
35 1 15233500 MINT 9 1992 SCORE 796 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
36 1 15233501 MINT 9 1989 TOPPS STICKERS 19 KIRBY PUCKETT B.HORNER-35/M.STANLEY-244 Card US
37 1 15233502 GEM MINT 10 1994 LEAF 294 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
38 1 15233503 MINT 9 1995 SCORE 559 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
39 1 15233504 GEM MINT 10 1991 TOPPS 300 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
40 1 15233505 GEM MINT 10 1991 SCORE 200 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
41 1 15233506 GEM MINT 10 1993 LEAF 378 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
42 1 15233507 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1988 SPORTFLICS 8 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
43 1 15233508 MINT 9 1992 ULTRA ALL-STARS 8 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
44 1 15233509 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1992 LEAF 98 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
45 1 15233510 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1991 FLEER PRO-VISION 1 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
46 1 15233511 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1991 ULTRA 195 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
47 1 15233512 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1993 UPPER DECK HOMERUN HEROES HR24 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
48 1 15233513 NEAR MINT-MINT+ 8.5 1991 FLEER 623 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
49 1 15233514 MINT 9 1994 PINNACLE MUSEUM COLLECTION 21 KIRBY PUCKETT Card US
50 1 15233515 MINT 9 2001 BOWMAN HERITAGE 304 CHASE UTLEY Card US
51 1 15233516 GEM MINT 10 1993 UPPER DECK IOOSS COLLECTION WI24 KIRBY PUCKETT IOOSS COLLECTION Card US
52 1 15233517 MINT 9 1992 CLASSIC T72 KIRBY PUCKETT SERIES I Card US

Total Items: 53

Date Received: 4/25/2008

I'm reserving judgement until I see these in my hands but at first glance this is not their best effort. I miss a flaw here and there but those Star cards should be 75-90% 10's all the way. 30% is not acceptable.

Mike

CDsNuts · June 27, 2008 6:55AM

It's not all that bad- the 93 Fleer Team Leaders and UD Iooss are pretty tough cards. The number of 8s sucks, but if they were all 9s you'd be just as pissed because they'd be just as worthless. Resub the 9s and at least half will probably come back 10s (unless you get the same grader).

bxb · June 27, 2008 7:27AM

Da judge say:

If da grade don't fit,

You must re-submit.

clayshooter22 · June 27, 2008 8:23AM

9 of the 16 - 10's are 1/1 and three are 1/2 which will really help my registry set. I'm not saying that I don't miss on a few and two hours later I can live with the grades from the non-Star Co. cards. Yeah, the 93 leaders are very poorly centered and the Iooss Collection are tough with the dark boarders and poor stock.

I have about 4 cards I need to send back for mislabeling problems. I think I'll call someone at PSA and send a few examples of each Star card with these graded 9's so they can see that they all have the print lines. I'll give them a chance to make it right. I really think it could be that they don't see many of these. I'm going to give them the benfit of the doubt for now.

I've calmed down now but its a good thing someone didn't cut me off on the drive home cause I was in one of those moods.

ON a good note....this is why I break my subs up into 4 50 card lots rather than a 200 card sub. So that when I get a tough draw it doesn't blow all 200 cards at once. Here's to hoping the next few subs are up to expectations. It costs me about $35 to do this but its reasons like this that I do it.

Mike

psafan · June 27, 2008 9:31AM

Ya sure PSA missed again. Riiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhtttttttt. Time to go get your eyes checked

gumbyfan · June 27, 2008 9:41AM

<< Ya sure PSA missed again. Riiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhtttttttt. Time to go get your eyes checked >>

Oh...I get it...."psafan".....oxymoron.

(minus the oxy, if you ask me)

262Runner · June 27, 2008 9:45AM

I don't normally chime in on post like these, however I must say that if I ever purchased a PSA 10 card from ANY set and it had print lines on it, I would be pissed!

clayshooter22 · June 27, 2008 10:14AM

<< I don't normally chime in on post like these, however I must say that if I ever purchased a PSA 10 card from ANY set and it had print lines on it, I would be pissed! >>

Ok, so if the printing plate has a scratch and every single card has the print line....then what? We say there are no 10's? If that's where we go with this then there will never be any 10's on these cards.

DrJ · June 27, 2008 10:55AM

<< 

<< I don't normally chime in on post like these, however I must say that if I ever purchased a PSA 10 card from ANY set and it had print lines on it, I would be pissed! >>

Ok, so if the printing plate has a scratch and every single card has the print line....then what? We say there are no 10's? If that's where we go with this then there will never be any 10's on these cards. >>

And why is that a problem?

lawnmowerman · June 27, 2008 11:28AM

<< an 88 sportsflicks graded an 8? Those things could survive a nucleur explosion and still grade out at mint! >>

I would agree with you if the front was only graded. The fronts are very tough. However, the backs of those cards are paper just like regular cards. I'm sure they got you on two touched corners on the reverse.

clayshooter22 · June 27, 2008 2:29PM

Matt,

I typically get 50%+ 10's on modern so my eye is good. Here's a pic to explain where I'm at. Look at this:

See the fish eye above "info 2" I expect something like this to take away from a card and knock it to a 9. It takes from the eye appeal.

Now look for the black print marks just left of the pine tar on the bat. These don't take much from the eye appeal and I would expect if that was the only error (no fish eye) that it should have a shot at a 10.

If we say that any print mark, even one that is a printing defect on every card produced...kills that issue from ever getting a 10, well than I'll just have to live with 9's because 90% of Star cards have these printing marks.

btw, I was going through some football that I was going to sell at a garage sale and I found 20 or so Emmitts that are not in your registry. Raw cards but free if you PM your addy. I feel the need to pay it forward since someone did something nice for me ths week.

Mike

CDsNuts · June 27, 2008 2:43PM

Clay, I disagree with the notion that cards whould be given leniency based on the fact that all of them have the same defect. The only argument I can think of to back up your argument is OPC cards which were cut rough for 30 years, so we accept the fact that they are rough cuts and don't deduct for that flaw.

To take an extreme example to illustrate my point, let's say a particular card was printed at the factory and each and every one of that card has a crease going across the middle- do we call an otherwise mint example a 10 even though there's a nasty crease? I'd vote that the best grade that card could get is a 5. If the best possible grade for that card is a 5 then so be it.

262Runner · June 27, 2008 3:43PM

<< Ok, so if the printing plate has a scratch and every single card has the print line....then what? We say there are no 10's? If that's where we go with this then there will never be any 10's on these cards. >>

This is fine with me. I collect Post cereal hand cut cards. The 1963 Post set currently only has one psa 10 ever awarded. Should we go back and give all of the 9's a grade of 10 just because there is not enough of them? Of course not, some cards, modern or vintage, just may never have an example grade a 10.

If look long and hard enough, eventually you will find the perfect card without print lines and get your 10.

lawnmowerman · June 28, 2008 12:40AM

<< Clay, I disagree with the notion that cards whould be given leniency based on the fact that all of them have the same defect. >>

I have to agree with this and PSA does as well. Another example would be the 1999 COLLECTORS EDGE MASTERS GALVANIZED EMMITT SMITH card. It has a pop of 805 in psa 9 with 0 10's. There is a small imprint in the shape of a circle from something during the manufacturing on every card made.

clayshooter22 · June 28, 2008 6:03AM

Lee,

See, the OPC example more proves my point. The rough cut OPC are graded 10's when by the same logic logic, the simple flaw of a rough cut should drop it to a 9, right? That was the anaogy I wanted to make. If there were no rough cut 10's then I could understand these Star Co cards all being 9's.

We accept that the OPC all have the rough cut and so we accepet that a PSA 10 should be rough cut. By that same token a card with a minor flaw, present in every card and printed across the entire issue, should have a shot at a 10, right? I guess I just don't understand why there is more weight being placed on the flaws of my cards than a OPC?

I guess when there are exceptions to the rule and I'm on the short side of it, I want it my way. Selfish, sure, but maybe the question I should be aking is more on topic of why do other cards with flaws get graded PSA 10. I don't know, I see both sides.

Mike

CDsNuts · June 28, 2008 6:19AM

I think OPC is more the exception than the rule. Certainly it makes for an inconsistent policy, but inconsistency seems to be commonplace at PSA and in grading in general.

To be honest, I would have no problem if the policy was that the best grade an OPC card could get is a 9.

nightcrawler · June 28, 2008 6:58AM

I have quite a few rough cut 9s but I have never seen a rough cut 10 myself.

I thought that was one of the reasons Gretzkys card was so hard to find in mint shape.

grote15 · June 28, 2008 9:49AM

I've rreceived 2-3 PSA 10 1973 OPCs from cards I've pulled from unopened wax and all of them had a rough cut at least on 1-2 sides. If you find a 10 without a rough cut it is most likely sheet cut, which is far worse than rough cut, IMO.

Personally, I don't view the rough cut on OPC issues as a flaw like a print dot or smudge, but I know that is a subjective opinion on my part. I'd prefer a ntural "rough cut" since that was the way the cards were cut in the factory, due to primitive production methods.

mikeschmidt · June 28, 2008 11:51AM

Quality Control Problems necessitate fewer cards getting a 10. PERIOD.

Just because it is the nicest that may exist, does not mean that it should automatically get a 10. If you extend your reasoning -- think of what it means for myriad pre-war issues that had significantly inferior quality control issues than something that is less than 20 years old. Trust me, I have the same issues you mention with some of my Mike Schmidt collection. But two things are fairly evident:

A) There is still a 1 in 100 or 1 in 1,000 chance that you get the Star card example without the print line.

Even if A does not happen for you, if you have the nicest example known, you should accept it and move on. It is unrealistic to complete an "all 10" master set of modern players. Period. You can always strive for improvement and a better set -- but there are hundreds of other player collectors going through similar experience, and "all 10" is simply not likely, or even realistic once you include esoteric and rarer issues.

M

mikeschmidt · June 28, 2008 11:52AM

Why is it so bad to have modern cards that do not have a "10" example graded? I just do not see the logic there.

Poppage and disappointment...

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