Ebay question - my conscience

BlindedByEgo · February 26, 2006 3:22PM

This buyer won one of my auctions on Ebay, for an ANACS MS60 1875-S Double Eagle. As you know, this coin jumps dramatically in price at higher grades. All he seems to sell is overgraded NNC stuff (I linked his feedback history). He sells A LOT of coins on Ebay...

This is my question: I don't particularly want to feed this guy coins that I'm pretty sure he's going to crack out, put in a inferior holder and remarket to the unwary or unknowledgable public. Should I block him, just out of principal? Or should I sell to him, knowing ahead of time what he's going to do, and hide behind "caveat emptor"?

"Coin dealers" like this make me sick.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 26, 2006 3:48PM

block him as a bidder if you think this is his tactic and you care about the integrity of the industry. Otherwise, take the profits and move on. Stupid money is going to be spent whether we have a watch dog group or not.

BlindedByEgo · February 26, 2006 3:50PM

<< block him as a bidder if you think this is his tactic and you care about the integrity of the industry. Otherwise, take the profits and move on. Stupid money is going to be spent whether we have a watch dog group or not. >>

Am I needlessly tilting at windmills? It's not like I want to be Don Quixote... I just feel so... Used

Coindexter · February 26, 2006 4:00PM

Even if every board member refused to sell to or buy from sellers like this it would scarcely make a dent in their business. I'm all for fighting the good fight, but as long as the auctions you list are honest and you force the people you deal with to be honest I don't think anyone can ask anymore from you.

MAD4MORGANS · February 26, 2006 4:50PM

Continue with any transaction he bought from you and then block from bidding your auctions if you feel like your being used to perpetrate fraud on others.

I believe I bought a coin from him a long time ago. The ad mentioned it was a cerified coin. After I received it I asked him "who was it certified by" as the holder was just a coin world type slab.

He said he did (whatever his name was).

Lesson learned...

It sounds as if you represented your sale fairly. That's the best you can do.

Bochiman · February 26, 2006 5:05PM

Ah, it's Centsles....

Keith, you should do a search on this forum for him.....he was reknowned for ACG slabs and had a link to them....

From what I have heard, he is actually a really good grader....but, "with great power comes great responsibility" and not everyone handles that the right way.....

rmoss · February 26, 2006 5:10PM

I have bought something from him in the past and remember being pleased with whatever I bought from him. I don't remember exactly what it was but it would have been in a PCGS slab if I bought it.

Edited to add: I did buy an item from him a couple of months ago. I think it was an MS 67 dime for my SMS set.

pontiacinf · February 26, 2006 9:33PM

<< Ah, it's Centsles....

Keith, you should do a search on this forum for him.....he was reknowned for ACG slabs and had a link to them....

From what I have heard, he is actually a really good grader....but, "with great power comes great responsibility" and not everyone handles that the right way..... >>

block that clown and dont look back

seateddime · February 26, 2006 11:57PM

da block

ziggy29 · February 27, 2006 12:00AM

Honor your deal and then consider blocking. Do the same to any other potential bidder whom you know is peddling third-world slabs to the naive collector while you're at it, before you have to honor another deal that makes you feel unclean.

slipgate · February 27, 2006 12:10AM

I don't know what percentage of ebay listers are on this board, probably not many, but would it help if all conscientous listers put a small, 3-4 sentence blurb in all their ebay ads about grading services? If it were standard, and many sellers included it, perhaps the naive collector would get a little more educated!

I'm sure one of the master collectors here could penn a short paragraph about slabs and post it - I'd use it (I rarely sell though).

Just a thought - probably a stupid idea!

fullerfun4 · February 27, 2006 12:29AM

Centsles is a guy named Robert Johnson and he won the PCGS grading contest acouple of yesrs ago. He does sell mostly NNC slabbed coins, but they sell at a big discount, at least 1-2 grade price below the designated grade. But he also sells other TPG graded coins, including the top three. So it is not a given that he would break it out. Perhaps he just thinks he can get more than what he paid. But who knows.
Regards
Gary

MS70ORBUST · February 27, 2006 12:38AM

<< 
This is my question: I don't particularly want to feed this guy coins that I'm pretty sure he's going to crack out, put in a inferior holder and remarket to the unwary or unknowledgable public. Should I block him, just out of principal? Or should I sell to him, knowing ahead of time what he's going to do, and hide behind "caveat emptor"?

"Coin dealers" like this make me sick.

>>

Get ready and block hundreds more if you choose to do it that way. Tons of sellers out there like that and we will never find them all.

bhartman35 · February 27, 2006 12:45AM

I say block him, after you finish any outstanding business with him. Selling coins in bogus holders like that hurts the buyer, hurts the hobby, and hurts Ebay, IMO. If unknowledgable rube gets taken, then realizes they got taken, they'll think twice before buying again on Ebay. Now, maybe that's a valuable learning experience, but then again, so's burning your hand on a stove. Honest collectors (and that would include you, since you're thinking about this) should not be abetting or encouraging the "bad guys".

SamByrd · February 27, 2006 2:05AM

Block him. If he buys the coin though it would be a good contest to see what the bottom feeder slab says when he re sells it. It should be a nnc or a*c MS64 or 65

BlindedByEgo · February 27, 2006 2:14AM

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm sorry that a person who knows and understands grading at a high level would choose to market coins in third-world holders, regardless of the "market discount"... IMO that is just blatant misrepresentation. I have no proof that he, or anyone else, will crack the coin out and "make" a "MS64" out of it in another holder. I guess that I'll just hang back and watch, if he does it then I'll block him. I have no problem in anybody buying my coins on Ebay and selling them for more - that's just good business. Misrepresentation of grade through $0.50 of plastic is another thing entirely. I'll always honor my deals.

Russ · February 27, 2006 2:28AM

I have several sellers blocked, but only the most egregious offenders - the ones that quote PCGS price guide and hype the hell out of their garbage slabs. Coinmovers, for example.

Russ, NCNE

mozin · February 27, 2006 2:34AM

Don't get your shorts in a knot about this kind of stuff. Forget Centles, relax, and get on with your life.

Barry · February 27, 2006 3:33AM

block that clown and dont look back

I don't deal with scumbag dealers, buying or selling.

FullStepJeffs · February 27, 2006 3:43AM

I've also bought PCGS graded coins from him in the past and had no problem.

I think you possibly might be reading too much into this... I would have agreed with you if you sold him a coin and then saw the same coin in a NNC holder... but you really don't know for sure that he is actually going to cross it into an NNC holder.

As others have said... maybe he thinks he can get more for it in the same holder... ain't that the whole coin business?

Hope this helps!

Steve

ddink · February 27, 2006 6:04AM

If he won your auction, you are honor-bound to sell it to him.

MS70ORBUST · February 27, 2006 6:14AM

<< If he won your auction, you are honor-bound to sell it to him. >>

Exactly!!

BlindedByEgo · February 27, 2006 6:20AM

<< 

<< If he won your auction, you are honor-bound to sell it to him. >>

Exactly!! >>

Ergo my third post. Ready, fire, aim?

XpipedreamR · February 27, 2006 6:29AM

<< cross it into an NNC holder. >>

That just has a funny sound to it

I wonder what the chances are that it wouldn't cross

majorbigtime · February 27, 2006 11:02AM

<< I've also bought PCGS graded coins from him in the past and had no problem.

>>

I have bought a few pieces from this seller, and "no worries".

ziggy29 · February 27, 2006 11:13AM

<< I have bought a few pieces from this seller, and "no worries". >>

I don't think there's any question that this seller typically delivers what's being described. But the point is, when you sell a lot of third-world junk, it burns a lot of people. People who see an MS-66 Morgan for sale, bidding $300 on it based on the price sheets, and then finding out later that it's no better than 63 and worth maybe fifty bucks.

The burned buyers think the coin business, and coin dealers, are a bunch of unscrupulous scam artists and may never want to be collectors again.

Long term that's just not good for numismatics. Some would say it might be good in the short term to thin out the number of buyers to regain sanity in the bull market. But it's more important, long term, to keep people engaged. That's what we need to keep our coins liquid, where we can feel like *good* purchases of quality coins can fetch close to (or above) current market values with a lot of market interest.

Ebay question - my conscience

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