this is how bad NGC is on grading - pics added

seateddime · February 21, 2006 9:50AM

Maybe this is venting but I just got back the following coins from NGC formerly graded by ANACS

1934 $1 ANACS 65 now NGC 62- yes 62
1935 $ 1 ANACS 65 now also NGC 62
1900 s $1 ANACS 65 now NGC 63
1901 s $1 ANACS 65 now NGC 64
1922 d $1 ANACS 65 now NCG 64
1935 s 1/2 $ ANACS 63 now NGC 63
1924 1/4$ ANACS 55 now NCS Cleaned , UNC details.

I would buy all the 62 peace dollars like those I could get my hands on!

ar18 · February 21, 2006 9:54AM

play the game, get burned sometimes? Maybe it is the other companies"althought I am not implying one is better than the other" Who Know's- welcome the real world!

ziggy29 · February 21, 2006 9:56AM

Wow -- that '35-S half must have been pretty PQ!

Russ · February 21, 2006 9:58AM

Are you sure it's NGC that's bad on grading and not ANACS?

Russ, NCNE

robertpr · February 21, 2006 9:58AM

Is NGC grading badly, or is ANACS overly liberal on this group, or are neither one of them right? As a wise man once said "this thread is useless without pics".

coinguy1 · February 21, 2006 9:59AM

Sorry, but no information has been presented to indicate that NGC's grading was "bad", only that it was stricter than ANACS's grading.

mozin · February 21, 2006 10:02AM

<< Sorry, but no information has been presented to indicate that NGC's grading was "bad", only that it was stricter than ANACS's grading. >>

And, the prices in the market place should show the difference in grading standards.

mrearlygold · February 21, 2006 10:08AM

Mess with the bull and get horned

coinkat · February 21, 2006 10:08AM

I am just curious... did you crack these out of ANACS slabs and submit them raw or was it a crossover attempt?

bennybravo · February 21, 2006 10:17AM

PICS?

Bochiman · February 21, 2006 10:21AM

Maybe you, and anacs, missed something on those that Anacs saw?

Were they cracked out, by you, prior to sending in? Did NGC crack them?

MrEureka · February 21, 2006 10:23AM

I would buy all the 62 peace dollars like those I could get my hands on!

Famous last words.

MikeInFL · February 21, 2006 10:24AM

The more pertinent quesiton is how good are you at grading?

BECOKA · February 21, 2006 10:29AM

Wow, For gold half eagles I usually get a direct cross over to PCGS from ANACS. Most of my NGC crossovers to PCGS come back lower.

keets · February 21, 2006 10:45AM

it's all in the selection of the candidates, perhaps you made poor choices.

seateddime · February 21, 2006 10:49AM

added the pics of the NGC 62, opinions?

braddick · February 21, 2006 10:54AM

the micro tics and scratches (especially the neck) and the 'brightness' of the coin overall sure looks MS62'ish to me.

coinguy1 · February 21, 2006 10:55AM

Based upon the image of the 1935 (with numerous hairlines and/or abrasions obvious on the cheek and neck of Ms. Liberty), I would guess MS62 or MS63 tops. I wouldn't even be thinking about MS64 - sorry but it's the truth.

rainbowroosie · February 21, 2006 10:56AM

Face and neck are hairlined AU 58........no, 62 is correct.

HTubbs · February 21, 2006 10:56AM

NGC might have gotten these right...ANACS can be loose at times,even if NGC can be tough...

dwssws · February 21, 2006 10:56AM

I agree with Mark!

ar18 · February 21, 2006 10:58AM

weak strike, hairlines

edited:

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · February 21, 2006 11:02AM

SeatedDime - Where did you learn how to grade ?

Did you put the 1935 Peace dollar on the bottom of
you shoe and dance on the floor before you sent the
coin to NGC ? Can't you SEE the SCRATCHES on Miss
Liberty's face and neck ? How would your face feel if it
was scratched like hers ?And do you think this coin is
a GEM ?

PCGS would possibly cross the coin as an ms 62.

I will also buy ms 62 Peace Dollars like this coin
for $10 each

Stewart

seateddime · February 21, 2006 11:02AM

I guess it looks worse blown up, still what a huge difference in grades!

TwoSides2aCoin · February 21, 2006 11:03AM

coinkat asked if they were cracked out. I think it's a fair question. It's long been established that ANACS was there to certify that the coin was authentic. Their grading practice was "net" grading. It stands to reason why the coins went down in grade. Chances are they could go up sending them over to PCGS now. My personal belief is that grading standards are getting more in line with what is PROPER grading. It is not that we are seeing a loose or strict application of standards , but a more "universal" application of ONE standard.

My hope in time is that each TPG will offer a grading service that is UNIFORM in it's practices and these practices meet an international grading standard.

Then we put our kids to bed and tell them the story of the three little pigs

TheRaven · February 21, 2006 11:06AM

Yea I think ANACS is at fault not NGC.....

Do you have any NGC MS-65 Peace Dollars that you compared these ANACS coins to before sending them in?

seateddime · February 21, 2006 11:08AM

this was sent to NCS to have ugly toning removed. Still I have put it side by side with NGC 64 peace dollars and see no difference. There are small ticks but not major hits.

JRocco · February 21, 2006 11:18AM

I agree that there are no major hits, but there are a lot of little hits all over the coin. See the face, neck, field, hair, date, rims etc. I could see a total gift of a 63, but a 62 would be more fair in my opinion.

dragon · February 21, 2006 11:21AM

<<< this was sent to NCS to have ugly toning removed >>>

Yep, that 1935 now looks dipped out and lifeless, (just going by the pic) and now also shows all of the small ticks, scratches and hairlines that may have been partially masked by the toning, I've seen that happen a lot on dipped coins. In my opinion it should have just been left as is with the toning regardless of how unattractive someone thought it looked.

In any case, NCS sure didn't do that coin any favors in my opinion and it now just looks like another generic overly dipped out Peace dollar with impaired lustre and myriad hairlines....... and the grade of MS62 is a lot closer to reality than the previous grade of MS65 in my opinion. If sent back to ANACS in its current state, I doubt it would grade higher than an MS63 and possibly lower.

coinguy1 · February 21, 2006 11:23AM

<< this was sent to NCS to have ugly toning removed. >>

If you are speaking of the 1935 coin you posted images of here, you have now provided another possible explanation for the large disparity in the grading. Perhaps the "ugly toning" was hiding many of the flaws which are now apparent. Were the other coins sent to NCS first, too?

seateddime · February 21, 2006 11:26AM

not all

How about the AU55 Standing Quarter that came back UNC?

Ronyahski · February 21, 2006 12:43PM

Based on the pics, 62 is alot closer to the right grade than 65.

WTCG · February 21, 2006 12:53PM

It's impossible to conclude that NGC is wrong on their grading. If anything it shows that ANACS may have been too liberal in their grade assignments.

With all due respect, I cannot disagree with the MS62 grade for the 1935 Peace Dollar. That coin has numerous hairlines and small scratches, especially on the devices.

If you do not want your coins downgraded on a crossover submission then declare the previous holdered grade as the minimum crossover grade. When you request a crossover at any grade then your coins are fair game for downgrades.

Wolf359 · February 21, 2006 1:37PM

There's no way ANACS was 3 points higher on multiple coins. And he never answered the crack out question.

Myqqy · February 21, 2006 1:50PM

Based upon what I've read so far, I think you need to change the title of this thread...... any more pics?

tradedollarnut · February 21, 2006 1:51PM

Did you put the 1935 Peace dollar on the bottom of
you shoe and dance on the floor before you sent the
coin to NGC ? Can't you SEE the SCRATCHES on Miss
Liberty's face and neck ? How would your face feel if it
was scratched like hers ?And do you think this coin is
a GEM ?

Stewart makes me laugh!

mrearlygold · February 21, 2006 3:13PM

I will also buy ms 62 Peace Dollars like this coin
for $10 each

Stewart

I'll bid 10.50

mrearlygold · February 21, 2006 3:14PM

AACoinCo · February 21, 2006 3:31PM

?

seateddime · February 21, 2006 11:02PM

<< There's no way ANACS was 3 points higher on multiple coins. And he never answered the crack out question. >>

some of coins were, the 2 peace dollars that came back 62's were cracked anacs 65's

MORGANHUNTER2 · February 21, 2006 11:21PM

<< There's no way ANACS was 3 points higher on multiple coins. And he never answered the crack out question. >>

some of coins were, the 2 peace dollars that came back 62's were cracked anacs 65's

the truth finally comes out- so how many little ezest dips did you try to the coin before sending it to NGC/NCS?

Why would you chance a 5 coin for a crack out- send it for a cross any day any way- if the coin looked like a 5 in a 3 holder - then crakc it and take your chances- but that it utter nonsense- and the 35 looks barely a 2 - I would have said au58 at best due to the tics, and abrasion on the reverse.

keets · February 21, 2006 11:35PM

i've seen nice MS65 Peace Dollars and the pictured 1935 should never be in anyone's holder at that grade. i certainly hope you didn't buy this group at the MS price/grades ANACS had assigned. if you did, i can understand the angst in the original post. the truth be told, though, you have neither ANACS to blame for the original grades nor NGC to blame for the present grades. walk into the bathroom and glance up from your shoes to confront the guilty party; he's the one staring back from the mirror.

our hobby can be an expensive one to gain an education in, i know i've paid/still pay my tuition fees. perhaps you just learned a valuable lesson with this experience. one guarantee i'll make is this-----if you learn today's lesson you won't necessarily have to repeat it and the knowledge will pay you back with interest over the course of time. stick with it and come back to show us the victories as well as the defeats.

tradedollarnut · February 22, 2006 12:20AM

some of coins were, the 2 peace dollars that came back 62's were cracked anacs 65's

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you mean to say they are NCS'd former anacs 65's. There's a huge difference. You mess with a gem, you never know what you get.

ziggy29 · February 22, 2006 12:24AM

<< some of coins were, the 2 peace dollars that came back 62's were cracked anacs 65's

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you mean to say they are NCS'd former anacs 65's. There's a huge difference. You mess with a gem, you never know what you get. >>

9997. You need to stop posting for a couple days.

Wolf359 · February 22, 2006 2:49AM

some of coins were, the 2 peace dollars that came back 62's were cracked anacs 65's

Then they were damaged when cracked out. Of that, I have no doubt.

ttown · February 22, 2006 3:18AM

Any pictures of these coins in the MS65 ANACS holders for us to look at? Seems you've accused but haven't supplied any evidence to me.

robertpr · February 22, 2006 9:28AM

It looks like the coin recieved a light cleaning at one point in the past, particularly on the cheek area and neck. Perhaps the coin was intentionally toned to mask that problem. Judging from your comment about the coin previously being in a 65 holder at ANACS before being conserved at NCS, I would conclude the effort was successful in masking the cleaning.

dizzyfoxx · February 22, 2006 9:31AM

My guess is the NGC grades are accurate, and the ANACS grades were liberal.

JMHO.

ttown · February 22, 2006 9:41AM

I've never seen an ANACS coin that would be downgraded 3 points, in fact I have some NGC coins in the $20 gold series graded MS61 I laugh at but since the lower grade common date gold coins were going for a modest price over spot when I purchased them it didn't matter. I'd say once they were thought to be problem coins and set to NCS for conservation you were dealt your fate, you'd have been better served to deny the service and try again latter.

ANACS is a very good company that doesn't vary it's standards like a couple of the top tier TPG's as prices increase or decrease. I'd still like to see what the coins look like in the MS65 ANACS holders to judge for myself.

coinkat · February 22, 2006 10:22AM

I just want to make sure I understand this before jumping to conclusions...

Two of the ANACS coins THAT WERE GRADED 65 were cracked out before sending to NGC...

Was there a toning issue and were the coins dipped before submission? I ask because it looks as if that happened. If the toning bothered you to the extent that contemplating cracking out a 65 and dipping in anticipation of resubmitting to get a 65, why didn't you just sell the ANACS coins in the holder?... you could have done ebay, teletrade... whatever... and then with that money, buy the white examples or desired grade that had the appeal you were looking for... crack outs and dipping often creates more problems.

Shamika · February 22, 2006 10:32AM

<< it now just looks like another generic overly dipped out Peace dollar with impaired lustre and myriad hairlines >>

I hate to say it but I agree 100%

this is how bad NGC is on grading - pics added

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