The Pain of the ALMOST Problem-Free Coin
TomB
Posts: 22,077 ✭✭✭✭✭
Different collectors have different limits of tolerance for coins that have problems. Some collectors want strictly original pieces, even if this means disqualifying the vast majority of coins; many make allowances for particular dates or varieties; some will grudgingly accept tough coins for sets; while still others have no clue what they are doing and purchase anything. I am generally in the first category, yet will admit that for the right coin I will make some room.
Today I had some time while traveling between my hospital and company-based labs to stop at a favorite coin shop. The owner is knowledgeable, friendly and honest. We have sold coins to each other and have done other business together in the past. Thankfully, he usually has a tray of Barber half dollars, perhaps one or two dozen, and I always look through them.
His shop is large and when he saw me on the sidewalk he immediately hit the buzzer to let me in and then told me to help myself with whatever case of coins I wanted to look at since he was busy with someone else. I took out the tray of Barber halves and began scanning the coins. They were the typical fare of AG/G coins, but were still unusual in that none were harshly cleaned and nearly all would be considered solid, original coins. A few, however, were nicer.
The two that I ended up purchasing were a nice VF20 1902 and a very attractive, gunky and solid F12 1914-S. The two that left me in agony were the VF30 1904 with a small, circular gouge through the eagle's wings and shield and a VF25 1894 with a rim bump at 2:00 o'clock. For the Barber half enthusiasts, let me repeat that last date, a VF25 1894! You may have to collect the series to understand or appreciate the rancor.
I looked at that 1894 for a long time. The rim bump was not visible from the reverse and the rim was not discolored in the injured area. However, the metal was displaced enough to make the area look flat and to have that part of the rim be the highest point on the coin. It was a darn shame. I don't know if there is a way to re-set the rim to its proper position without making the coin worse for the remedy.
What are the problems, if any, that you are willing to overlook and on what coins will you accept them? For me, I will overlook minor problems on 1904-S Barber halves in F12 and above and will overlook nearly any problem on any grade 1802 Draped Bust half.
Today I had some time while traveling between my hospital and company-based labs to stop at a favorite coin shop. The owner is knowledgeable, friendly and honest. We have sold coins to each other and have done other business together in the past. Thankfully, he usually has a tray of Barber half dollars, perhaps one or two dozen, and I always look through them.
His shop is large and when he saw me on the sidewalk he immediately hit the buzzer to let me in and then told me to help myself with whatever case of coins I wanted to look at since he was busy with someone else. I took out the tray of Barber halves and began scanning the coins. They were the typical fare of AG/G coins, but were still unusual in that none were harshly cleaned and nearly all would be considered solid, original coins. A few, however, were nicer.
The two that I ended up purchasing were a nice VF20 1902 and a very attractive, gunky and solid F12 1914-S. The two that left me in agony were the VF30 1904 with a small, circular gouge through the eagle's wings and shield and a VF25 1894 with a rim bump at 2:00 o'clock. For the Barber half enthusiasts, let me repeat that last date, a VF25 1894! You may have to collect the series to understand or appreciate the rancor.
I looked at that 1894 for a long time. The rim bump was not visible from the reverse and the rim was not discolored in the injured area. However, the metal was displaced enough to make the area look flat and to have that part of the rim be the highest point on the coin. It was a darn shame. I don't know if there is a way to re-set the rim to its proper position without making the coin worse for the remedy.
What are the problems, if any, that you are willing to overlook and on what coins will you accept them? For me, I will overlook minor problems on 1904-S Barber halves in F12 and above and will overlook nearly any problem on any grade 1802 Draped Bust half.
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Comments
Too bad it wasn't a chopmark!
That is exactly the kind of coin I like! I'm on a 64 budget... The problem is on the reverse... The obverse is spectacular, yup, that is my kind of coin.
My local coin shop has a 1894 VF30 that is totally original. I look at it over and over again wondering if I should buy it, wondering if that larger staple scratch on the face really detracts that much, or if it really is that big of a deal. Everytime I look at it I am reminded again how devasting it is to find a great coin that is ruined by that slightly larger than normal distraction.
BTW, the same coin shop has an AU58 1904-S Barber half....with hairlines on the obverse, but perfectly mark free and dripping with MS65 luster on the reverse. It just makes me ill.
Tyler
Fingerprints are an unforgivable flaw, however.
I insist my common coins be uncommonly nice, and my merely scarce coins still have to be pretty darned nice for the grade to really make me happy with them.
Rare and very rare coins, you kind of have to take what you can get and then hope for the opportunity of an upgrade someday. Certain dates and desireable varieties appear so seldom on the marketplace that one can't afford to be too picky if he ever hopes of acquiring one, especially if the budget or taste of the collector only allows him to consider circulated ones.. the kind which sometimes acquire a flaw during their course of commerce.
Here is my 1801 O.101 half dollar, a scarce coin that not only do few collectors own in any grade, but even is challenging to find one to buy at all.
On such a coin, which obviously did a lot of work in early America, one might not expect perfection, as long as the overall effect is pleasing.
Another effect I've noticed in my collecting is that sometimes, I'm willing to accept more serious damage on an early or very scarce coin such as scratches or even holes, as long as the damage was contemporary to the coin in circulation and not recently afflicted. I also prefer more detail in "trade-off" for the damage, and of course want to pay an appropriate "net grade" price
For example here's another very rare coin, a 1797 13 stars half dime in Fine details net Fair-2, due to a contemporary hole
Got to admit, that's a lot of coin for a Fair-2 price, and again, only a few others have one in any grade at all
I would probably not be interested in the coin if the damage were a recent, deep staple scratch, for example.
Nor would I be interested in the coin if it were an 1897 coin with a similar hole.
great thread topic Tom
PS, did you buy the 1894?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I was almost oblivious to minor rim bumps and some hairlines, but big scratches and color/tone I gauged the most-- until I found the same love you have (Barber halves), and asked Tyler too many questions. Now I am getting pickier and passing by ones like you mentioned, or buying anticipatiing sending it back. My set gets farther and farther from completion... those F12 s that looked so great a few months ago... now look blah. I still have a long way to go. I am suspicious/ paranoid of cleaned coins because I've made quite a few bad purchases in the last year. But patience is a great teacher in other areas of life. Just hoping to find a balance. And stop looking at Tyler's and your websites.
Don S
I find myself being pretty choosey when it comes to purchasing Barber halves for my collection. I'm probably darn close to you and Tyler in that department. I literally drive the dealers nuts, at the local coin shows that I attend, looking thru their stock of raw Barber quarters and halves.
Months ago I passed on a beautiful, original looking 1914 Barber half, grading around VF-25. The coin had everything going for it, price, original look (no hairlines), great eye appeal, but it was just a tad lighter than what I would have considered the perfect coin. I'm kicking myself in the butt now for not buying it........but, what can you do.
Rim bumps are a different story. To me, rim bumps are the most annoying and distracting marks on a coin. I've passed on plenty of beautiful Barber halves, including a nice XF, 1898-O, because of a small rim nick. This particular coin had beautiful album toning, and was virtually mark free, except for the small rim bump. No matter how long I looked at that coin, I couldn't get past the minor rim nick.
So Tom, I know exactly where you're coming from..........I just wish I could ease up a little bit and be a little less picky.
Connor Numismatics Website
Obscurum per obscurius
As far as problem coins go, I'll buy them if the price is right.
One I have that comes to mind is a nice XF-AU 1871-S Seated Quarter I bought from Larry Briggs 4 or 5 years back. It has a small mark on the reverse, but not the plow furrow he described it as having. For what I paid for this, you can't get a "no problem good" for, now. So..... I'm glad I bought this "problem coin" when I had the chance, at what was a good price.
Ray
think they can send me their junk and it will "stick
That said, as you are aware I'm a Bust collector almost exclusively. One needs to come to terms with these pieces and
understand what they've been through in their long hard life. I will say this.... the more circulated they are, the more I
might be forgiving to minor issues. I see all too often folks expecting a low or mid circulated piece expecting it to be perfect
in every way. If it's a year I like and has a nice original look to it..... I "Might" be likely to accept a minor rim bump
or a few scratches that are toned in and go with the year they came from.
The higher up in condition and value the more picky I will get. These Bust halves go for way beyond sheet values.
If I'm going to pay the price (which I still feel they are worth it) I need the coin to give me a smile at first glance.
No smile..... back it goes!!
Collecting:
Conder tokens
19th & 20th Century coins from Great Britain and the Realm
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Certain imperfections do not bother me at all while others drive me nuts. An example is that I do not mind at all fingerprints on wildly toned coins. Neither do I mind cuts, scratches or small gouges on the surface of a coin if they were contemporary to the coin's circulation. Things that I cannot accept are staple scratches, rim damage and hairlines. Hairlines can be the absolute worst, in my opinion. I also realize that if you are looking for the perfect circulated coin that you likely will not find it; however, if you are looking for perfect coin within your own definitions then they are out there.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Tom since you mentioned the very scarce 1802 halves I thought I'd image this one, thanks again for helping me locate a very difficult to find coin
I really like this coin, note that each side has a small scratch, and the obverse also has a small dig, that appear to be "test marks" contemporary to the coin's circulation, which must have been considerable. Such marks when consistent with the grade like this don't bother me at all.. an honest coin, and very tough to find, pass on it because of small imperfections and who knows when you'll see another one.. I've been looking for almost a year for one of these the common dates and varieties are much easier to find "perfect for the grade"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson