@oih82w8 said:
I briefly looked at the numbers last night. There is a big drop between the bookends, 001 and 232. Ya'll have fun.
Meaningless until the auction begins. 232 will be a standout, because it is the last, and contains the dies. Once things get going, there won't be "big drops" between anything else.
@oih82w8 said:
I briefly looked at the numbers last night. There is a big drop between the bookends, 001 and 232. Ya'll have fun.
Meaningless until the auction begins. 232 will be a standout, because it is the last, and contains the dies. Once things get going, there won't be "big drops" between anything else.
What i meant was that the sets in between 001 and 232 are lower and will bring lower prices than the 001 and 232. Collectors will pay more for the first and the last, especially since 232 has the canceled dies.
oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's
@oih82w8 said:
I briefly looked at the numbers last night. There is a big drop between the bookends, 001 and 232. Ya'll have fun.
Meaningless until the auction begins. 232 will be a standout, because it is the last, and contains the dies. Once things get going, there won't be "big drops" between anything else.
What i meant was that the sets in between 001 and 232 are lower and will bring lower prices than the 001 and 232. Collectors will pay more for the first and the last, especially since 232 has the canceled dies.
And what I meant is that counting down to the last set, #232, #1 is the furthest away, and isn't special. It's attracting some attention now, but, when the bidding starts, you won't see it sell for much of a premium, if any at all, as compared to set #2. Or set #150 for that matter.
Based on the prices the single Gold FH privies achieved last year, expect all of these 3 coin sets, other than #232, to go for at least $30K. Likely more. So early indications a few weeks out mean nothing. Either $26K or $10K. People here looked at early bids last year and thought they had no chance to go for more than $10K, based on what 1945 V75 AGEs were worth. They couldn't have been more wrong.
The gap will close as they all go far higher. #232 will go for more than $500K, so $130K today is equally meaningless.
@Baylor8670 said:
Are the cents graded 63-66 really that bad or are the low grades due to fingerprints?
If the latter, maybe some brave soul will introduce them to acetone after purchase.
In this case, the plastic or label will be worth quite a few thousand dollars. I doubt many of these will get cracked out. It is possible some will be conserved and some crossovers to NGC or CACG, but I seriously doubt people would be willing to lose the pedigree, even with the privy.
@oldabeintx said:
I’m not one for marketing gimmicks and (practically) nothing but 69’s and 70’s cranked out for collectors. But on the other hand this shows a kind of careless disdain for collectors. Or incompetency. Or both.
Correct. They could have made them, and handled them, with the same care they employ for the annual Mint sets.
They chose not to, betting, that with only 232, prices realized would not be significantly impacted by quality. Or lack thereof.
I reckon they did handle them with the same care as the cents from annual Mint Sets. I think those are the typical grades you would get if you submitted cents from regular issue mint sets. There's a reason why for most years in recent history an MS67 sells for a decent amount.
@oldabeintx said:
I’m not one for marketing gimmicks and (practically) nothing but 69’s and 70’s cranked out for collectors. But on the other hand this shows a kind of careless disdain for collectors. Or incompetency. Or both.
Correct. They could have made them, and handled them, with the same care they employ for the annual Mint sets.
They chose not to, betting, that with only 232, prices realized would not be significantly impacted by quality. Or lack thereof.
I reckon they did handle them with the same care as the cents from annual Mint Sets. I think those are the typical grades you would get if you submitted cents from regular issue mint sets. There's a reason why for most years in recent history an MS67 sells for a decent amount.
Really? I thought coins going into Mint sets nowadays are handled with care, aren't thrown into bins before packaging, and actually grade very well. Am I mistaken? Because I see plenty of MS68 and MS69 cents on eBay. And they don't go for anywhere near $10K each.
@oldabeintx said:
I’m not one for marketing gimmicks and (practically) nothing but 69’s and 70’s cranked out for collectors. But on the other hand this shows a kind of careless disdain for collectors. Or incompetency. Or both.
Correct. They could have made them, and handled them, with the same care they employ for the annual Mint sets.
They chose not to, betting, that with only 232, prices realized would not be significantly impacted by quality. Or lack thereof.
I reckon they did handle them with the same care as the cents from annual Mint Sets. I think those are the typical grades you would get if you submitted cents from regular issue mint sets. There's a reason why for most years in recent history an MS67 sells for a decent amount.
Really? I thought coins going into Mint sets nowadays are handled with care, aren't thrown into bins before packaging, and actually grade very well. Am I mistaken? Because I see plenty of MS68 and MS69 cents on eBay. And they don't go for anywhere near $10K each.
Maybe in NGC grades. To translate to PCGS standards you usually have to deduct 1-2 grades. I'm not sure it's a matter of handling as much as it might be planchet quality. I'm not sure how much effort they put into making copper planchets in quantities of hundreds of millions.
~30k avg then 250k for the last with the cancelled dis
Nope. Based on one canceled Gold FH die going for $440K, 3 canceled cent dies will surely go for more than $500K.
Also, based on 230 Gold FH coins going for more than $30K on average for a single coin, albeit one with an ounce of gold, it is likely that each Lincoln 3 coin set will go for more than that. Likely $50K+.
People here constantly commit the sin of looking at things like this through their personal lens when pontificating how much things like this will sell for, ignoring empirical evidence that doesn't line up with value as they see it.
I'd never spend what these things are going to go for. But what they are going to go for is not a mystery, given the data set we have from a mere year ago, and then how those coins did in the secondary market.
Interesting, you think these 3 coin sets will go in auction for more money than the Flowing Hair Gold Privy at auction, which to the best of my memory were mainly between $28k and $38K except for the unique numbers and dies. Not that i would ever doubt you given your correct call on the Flowing Hair Gold Privy results.
@oldabeintx said:
I’m not one for marketing gimmicks and (practically) nothing but 69’s and 70’s cranked out for collectors. But on the other hand this shows a kind of careless disdain for collectors. Or incompetency. Or both.
Correct. They could have made them, and handled them, with the same care they employ for the annual Mint sets.
They chose not to, betting, that with only 232, prices realized would not be significantly impacted by quality. Or lack thereof.
I reckon they did handle them with the same care as the cents from annual Mint Sets. I think those are the typical grades you would get if you submitted cents from regular issue mint sets. There's a reason why for most years in recent history an MS67 sells for a decent amount.
Really? I thought coins going into Mint sets nowadays are handled with care, aren't thrown into bins before packaging, and actually grade very well. Am I mistaken? Because I see plenty of MS68 and MS69 cents on eBay. And they don't go for anywhere near $10K each.
Maybe in NGC grades. To translate to PCGS standards you usually have to deduct 1-2 grades. I'm not sure it's a matter of handling as much as it might be planchet quality. I'm not sure how much effort they put into making copper planchets in quantities of hundreds of millions.
Yeah. I never bought into the PCGS hype, especially for moderns, and didn't even notice that all the eBay coins are NGC, so you might very well be right there.
No matter what, when they are making 232 to sell for tens of thousands each, there is absolutely no excuse for not creating perfect, or nearly perfect, specimens. None at all, other than not caring, and taking for granted that the coins will sell for the same price regardless.
We don't need any more evidence for this than the way the coins were handled on camera, and the resulting fingerprints. They very well might be correct, although I hope not.
~30k avg then 250k for the last with the cancelled dis
Nope. Based on one canceled Gold FH die going for $440K, 3 canceled cent dies will surely go for more than $500K.
Also, based on 230 Gold FH coins going for more than $30K on average for a single coin, albeit one with an ounce of gold, it is likely that each Lincoln 3 coin set will go for more than that. Likely $50K+.
People here constantly commit the sin of looking at things like this through their personal lens when pontificating how much things like this will sell for, ignoring empirical evidence that doesn't line up with value as they see it.
I'd never spend what these things are going to go for. But what they are going to go for is not a mystery, given the data set we have from a mere year ago, and then how those coins did in the secondary market.
Interesting, you think these 3 coin sets will go in auction for more money than the Flowing Hair Gold Privy at auction, which to the best of my memory were mainly between $28k and $38K except for the unique numbers and dies. Not that i would ever doubt you given your correct call on the Flowing Hair Gold Privy results.
Yeah. More hype around the penny, so there will be more interest. Three coins as opposed to one. Same limited mintage.
And now we have a precedent, including how well the FH held up in the secondary market. So yeah, I think these will go for more, in spite of the shoddy quality and handling. Because the bidders will have more confidence in the value holding, and there is actual history behind the coins, as opposed to them being nothing more than a gold restrike of a silver coin, with a privy mark.
@HalfDime said:
Conservative estimates: Up to $1 million
Veteran dealer projects:
Final one-cent piece struck: up to $1,000,000
Second-to-last: around $20,000
Third-to-last: around $10,000
Mint’s internal projection
McNally offered her own estimate: around $100,000 for the top examples.
All auction proceeds will benefit Mint operations, with surplus funds going to the Treasury.
I was priced out of the Flowing Hair Gold Privy, they were bid above my SB limit in seconds once the auction started, and I will be priced out of these sets based on NJCoin's estimates. I hope this is where they end up, but @NJCoin does have the proven track record.
@HalfDime said:
Conservative estimates: Up to $1 million
Veteran dealer projects:
Final one-cent piece struck: up to $1,000,000
Second-to-last: around $20,000
Third-to-last: around $10,000
Mint’s internal projection
McNally offered her own estimate: around $100,000 for the top examples.
All auction proceeds will benefit Mint operations, with surplus funds going to the Treasury.
Great! The "veterans" were wrong last year, and will be wrong again. We are 2+ weeks from the auction, and prices are already around or above their projections.
Those projections are garbage, and might just represent dealers trying to talk the market down in order to dissuade people from competing with them at the auction.
I'm not sure what's "conservative" about up to $1 million, or whether that is supposed to be for all 232, just the last one, or something else? McNally might or might not be high for so-called "top examples," since "top example" is relative here, and I already don't think anything they are offering is truly a top example. $100K remains TBD, but is certainly entirely possible.
The price realized for the final piece struck isn't really for the final piece struck, because it also includes 6 dies. Based on where the dies from the FH sold, absolutely anything is possible. My guess is at least $500K, but nothing above that, nothing at all, would shock me. OTOH, anything, anything at all, selling for anywhere close to $10-20K, would shock me.
At least the Mint is being open, honest and transparent about the proceeds going for nothing other than Mint operations, Stacks, and the US Treasury. It's a blatant money grab. Good for them, and good for anyone who wants to feed it.
@HalfDime said:
I only checked the first and last lot, and saw someone had their fingers in the cookie jar.
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No Problem.
The guy who did those 2025 fingerprints will offer to put the same fingerprints on the 1793 Chain AMERI. PCGS Specimen-65 and the 1793 Chain America PCGS Specimen-67 coins. One of those may be the first Chain cent issued.
That way there can be a matching Alpha and Omego one cent fingerprint set. (Sorry, I meant Penny set.)
@MsMorrisine said:
i hope they think to dip them first
The 2025's are already slabbed now. Seems they could have at least acetoned the last cent right after handling and prevented permanent fingerprint damage.
That final coin may end up a pile of zinc dust inside a collapsed and broken copper shell within several decades.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I'll just sit, eat popcorn and watch the foolishness. The bids I have seen, and it's not over yet, convince me that I would rather have something like this. It's not perfect, but at least it's been a classic that collectos have wanted for well over century and a half.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@BillJones said:
I'll just sit, eat popcorn and watch the foolishness. The bids I have seen, and it's not over yet, convince me that I would rather have something like this. It's not perfect, but at least it's been a classic that collectos have wanted for well over century and a half.
And it won't disintegrate.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@MsMorrisine said:
i hope they think to dip them first
The 2025's are already slabbed now. Seems they could have at least acetoned the last cent right after handling and prevented permanent fingerprint damage.
That final coin may end up a pile of zinc dust inside a collapsed and broken copper shell within several decades.
Fingerprints are oils. That coin is no more likely to corrode and collapse than any of the others.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Comments
I briefly looked at the numbers last night. There is a big drop between the bookends, 001 and 232. Ya'll have fun.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Meaningless until the auction begins. 232 will be a standout, because it is the last, and contains the dies. Once things get going, there won't be "big drops" between anything else.
What i meant was that the sets in between 001 and 232 are lower and will bring lower prices than the 001 and 232. Collectors will pay more for the first and the last, especially since 232 has the canceled dies.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
does fingerprint exist i the descriptions?
And what I meant is that counting down to the last set, #232, #1 is the furthest away, and isn't special. It's attracting some attention now, but, when the bidding starts, you won't see it sell for much of a premium, if any at all, as compared to set #2. Or set #150 for that matter.
Based on the prices the single Gold FH privies achieved last year, expect all of these 3 coin sets, other than #232, to go for at least $30K. Likely more. So early indications a few weeks out mean nothing. Either $26K or $10K. People here looked at early bids last year and thought they had no chance to go for more than $10K, based on what 1945 V75 AGEs were worth. They couldn't have been more wrong.
The gap will close as they all go far higher. #232 will go for more than $500K, so $130K today is equally meaningless.
Will be interesting to see how the combined grades influence bids. The Denver coins may drive the set, in general.
In this case, the plastic or label will be worth quite a few thousand dollars. I doubt many of these will get cracked out. It is possible some will be conserved and some crossovers to NGC or CACG, but I seriously doubt people would be willing to lose the pedigree, even with the privy.
I reckon they did handle them with the same care as the cents from annual Mint Sets. I think those are the typical grades you would get if you submitted cents from regular issue mint sets. There's a reason why for most years in recent history an MS67 sells for a decent amount.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Really? I thought coins going into Mint sets nowadays are handled with care, aren't thrown into bins before packaging, and actually grade very well. Am I mistaken? Because I see plenty of MS68 and MS69 cents on eBay. And they don't go for anywhere near $10K each.
Maybe in NGC grades. To translate to PCGS standards you usually have to deduct 1-2 grades. I'm not sure it's a matter of handling as much as it might be planchet quality. I'm not sure how much effort they put into making copper planchets in quantities of hundreds of millions.
http://ProofCollection.Net
Interesting, you think these 3 coin sets will go in auction for more money than the Flowing Hair Gold Privy at auction, which to the best of my memory were mainly between $28k and $38K except for the unique numbers and dies. Not that i would ever doubt you given your correct call on the Flowing Hair Gold Privy results.
Yeah. I never bought into the PCGS hype, especially for moderns, and didn't even notice that all the eBay coins are NGC, so you might very well be right there.
No matter what, when they are making 232 to sell for tens of thousands each, there is absolutely no excuse for not creating perfect, or nearly perfect, specimens. None at all, other than not caring, and taking for granted that the coins will sell for the same price regardless.
We don't need any more evidence for this than the way the coins were handled on camera, and the resulting fingerprints. They very well might be correct, although I hope not.
Yeah. More hype around the penny, so there will be more interest. Three coins as opposed to one. Same limited mintage.
And now we have a precedent, including how well the FH held up in the secondary market. So yeah, I think these will go for more, in spite of the shoddy quality and handling. Because the bidders will have more confidence in the value holding, and there is actual history behind the coins, as opposed to them being nothing more than a gold restrike of a silver coin, with a privy mark.
Conservative estimates: Up to $1 million
Veteran dealer projects:
Final one-cent piece struck: up to $1,000,000
Second-to-last: around $20,000
Third-to-last: around $10,000
Mint’s internal projection
McNally offered her own estimate: around $100,000 for the top examples.
All auction proceeds will benefit Mint operations, with surplus funds going to the Treasury.
I was priced out of the Flowing Hair Gold Privy, they were bid above my SB limit in seconds once the auction started, and I will be priced out of these sets based on NJCoin's estimates. I hope this is where they end up, but @NJCoin does have the proven track record.
Great! The "veterans" were wrong last year, and will be wrong again. We are 2+ weeks from the auction, and prices are already around or above their projections.
Those projections are garbage, and might just represent dealers trying to talk the market down in order to dissuade people from competing with them at the auction.
I'm not sure what's "conservative" about up to $1 million, or whether that is supposed to be for all 232, just the last one, or something else? McNally might or might not be high for so-called "top examples," since "top example" is relative here, and I already don't think anything they are offering is truly a top example. $100K remains TBD, but is certainly entirely possible.
The price realized for the final piece struck isn't really for the final piece struck, because it also includes 6 dies. Based on where the dies from the FH sold, absolutely anything is possible. My guess is at least $500K, but nothing above that, nothing at all, would shock me. OTOH, anything, anything at all, selling for anywhere close to $10-20K, would shock me.
At least the Mint is being open, honest and transparent about the proceeds going for nothing other than Mint operations, Stacks, and the US Treasury. It's a blatant money grab. Good for them, and good for anyone who wants to feed it.
.
.
No Problem.
The guy who did those 2025 fingerprints will offer to put the same fingerprints on the 1793 Chain AMERI. PCGS Specimen-65 and the 1793 Chain America PCGS Specimen-67 coins. One of those may be the first Chain cent issued.
That way there can be a matching Alpha and Omego one cent fingerprint set. (Sorry, I meant Penny set.)
.
.
https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1793-1c-chain-ameri-bn/91340
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
i hope they think to dip them first
The 2025's are already slabbed now. Seems they could have at least acetoned the last cent right after handling and prevented permanent fingerprint damage.
That final coin may end up a pile of zinc dust inside a collapsed and broken copper shell within several decades.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I'll just sit, eat popcorn and watch the foolishness. The bids I have seen, and it's not over yet, convince me that I would rather have something like this. It's not perfect, but at least it's been a classic that collectos have wanted for well over century and a half.
And it won't disintegrate.
Fingerprints are oils. That coin is no more likely to corrode and collapse than any of the others.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.