The prices of the SMS's in the 1980's?
joeykoins
Posts: 17,969 ✭✭✭✭✭
Today, the SMS, whether 1965,'66 or '67 are approx. $10-$12. Back in 1980, were the sets astronomical in price (40% Silver Kennedy) because of the price of Silver? Does anyone remember what they were selling for? 
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.0
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Just pulling out the halves and spending/dumping the rest(assuming there were no cameo pieces)
Cheers, RickO
Looking back at the 1981 Red Book, which would have covered 1980 prices, those sets were listed at $6 to $8. That was about double what they were a couple years before, but $6 to $8 is hardly "astonomical." The half dollars were made of 40% silver clad, which did make them worth more than their face value, but people were not rushing to buy them.
Think about that for a moment. Even the 40% Kennedy had to be worth around $23 if Silver was $50 an oz. So, wouldn't the set be going for around $25? That's what I'm saying, for a simple SMS set $25 is an astronomical price!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Looking back at the 1981 Red Book, which would have covered 1980 prices, those sets were listed at $6 to $8. That was about double what they were a couple years before, but $6 to $8 is hardly "astonomical." The half dollars were made of 40% silver clad, which did make them worth more than their face value, but people were not rushing to buy them.
Think about that for a moment. Even the 40% Kennedy had to be worth around $23 if Silver was $50 an oz. So, wouldn't the set be going for around $25? That's what I'm saying, for a simple SMS set $25 is an astronomical price!
A 40% silver half dollar contains .1479 of an ounce of pure silver according to the 1990 Red Book. If silver were selling for $55 an ounce, which was the high back in the 1980 "silver fever" days, that works out to $8.13. When you deduct the smelting fee from that, the value of the silver in the coin was less than that.
The $6 to $8 number I quoted from the 1980 Red Book was for a particular point in time when the information in the book was compiled. The $55 per ounce price did not last for long if memory serves. The clad silver half dollar has never melted for as much $23.
Looking back at the 1981 Red Book, which would have covered 1980 prices, those sets were listed at $6 to $8. That was about double what they were a couple years before, but $6 to $8 is hardly "astonomical." The half dollars were made of 40% silver clad, which did make them worth more than their face value, but people were not rushing to buy them.
Think about that for a moment. Even the 40% Kennedy had to be worth around $23 if Silver was $50 an oz. So, wouldn't the set be going for around $25? That's what I'm saying, for a simple SMS set $25 is an astronomical price!
There was no concern about "the set" as it was strictly a silver play at the time.
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
Although there were no forums, I do not recall a large flipping fever at shows back then...
There was a great deal of "flipping" going on in those days but the mint didn't make a lot of products, there was little interest in high grades, and there was no net so it was far less visible. It still has had a massive effect today since it was the primary cause of the huge mintages of mint products. The mint was making 3 million proof sets and 2 million mint sets annually despite the fact that very few people collected the sets or any of their parts. Most were being sold because people knew that early delivery would be a windfall profit. You could buy five which was usually the maximum and you might be able to sell one or two to cover the cost or sell them all for a tidy profit.
The SMS's were never and still are not very popular. The range in quality and techniques to make them are broad so a few people have sought out the rarities almost as far back as 1967. I remember seeing a frosted cameo half in the early '70's in a dealer display case for $10. Proof set collectors tend to think of them as mint sets and mint set collectors tend to thinkof them as proof sets. Despite the relatively small mintages few pursue them.
The '80's was a relatively turbulent time for raw modern prices and I don't remember them in context. But the base price during a lot of this era they were $3, $4, and $6 respectively. I remember one big run up I believe in the late-80's.
Any time new SMS's come on the market I try to take a good look at them because there are a lot of keepers here. 1967 was a very long time ago and very few original sets enter the market now days. These sets have almost all been sold at least once.
Today, the SMS, whether 1965,'66 or '67 are approx. $10-$12. Back in 1980, were the sets astronomical in price (40% Silver Kennedy) because of the price of Silver? Does anyone remember what they were selling for?
Silver didn't really get hot until July of '79 and by mid-January it was pretty much over.
Anything silver was getting melted and the SMS's were sitting right there in dealer stock so were a ready source for quick cash. I'd guess about half of dealer SMS stock from this era got sold for scrap but there was still some in the pipeline when the party ended. 40% was not prime material for the melters. Dealer stock was a relatively small percentage of total mintage even in those days so the absolute number melted wasn't great (maybe 300,000?).
I heard stories of people just cutting open the various mint, SMS, and proof sets to dump half dollars for melting. The rest of the coins usually went to the bank except when they could put together entire rolls of proofs. The total destruction could be overestimated since this period was so brief there just wasn't time for large numbers to be destroyed.
There was quite a bit of melting post-1980, as the price of 90% would periodically dip below silver value for the next several decades. It's likely that many SMS halves were included in these melts.
SGS has broken out more sets than anyone on earth and just about everyone is near perfect...well in their eyes anyways.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Today, the SMS, whether 1965,'66 or '67 are approx. $10-$12. Back in 1980, were the sets astronomical in price (40% Silver Kennedy) because of the price of Silver? Does anyone remember what they were selling for?
Silver didn't really get hot until July of '79 and by mid-January it was pretty much over.
Anything silver was getting melted and the SMS's were sitting right there in dealer stock so were a ready source for quick cash. I'd guess about half of dealer SMS stock from this era got sold for scrap but there was still some in the pipeline when the party ended. 40% was not prime material for the melters. Dealer stock was a relatively small percentage of total mintage even in those days so the absolute number melted wasn't great (maybe 300,000?).
I heard stories of people just cutting open the various mint, SMS, and proof sets to dump half dollars for melting. The rest of the coins usually went to the bank except when they could put together entire rolls of proofs. The total destruction could be overestimated since this period was so brief there just wasn't time for large numbers to be destroyed.
While the time period of this run-up in metals prices was brief the intensity was exceptional. Long lines at coin dealers were common as the general public tried to cash in on the high metal prices.
I bought mine for about $9.00 each back then.
$9.00 back then, Why in the world are they $10-$12 today? Almost $35 more an oz. than now! Maybe, because they are more popular than one thinks?
Right now, that Kennedy is worth about $2.57c. in Silver. So, in 1980-81, that same coin was only worth $7+ then? That just seems wrong.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.How about War nickels? Try and sell some War Nickels. They are even hard to smelt down and draw off the silver...it's cost prohibitive right now.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Nobody wanted to be cheated with 40% silver thrown into the mix of 90% silver, that's just one reason there was no significant demand.
How about War nickels? Try and sell some War Nickels. They are even hard to smelt down and draw off the silver...it's cost prohibitive right now.
So, is this the reason for the small price of the 40%er's? The tough melt would have to be inserted of the price? Since you brought up " War Nickels", them as well, even the common ones in the 1980 period would be higher in price because of the silver, right?
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Nobody wanted to be cheated with 40% silver thrown into the mix of 90% silver, that's just one reason there was no significant demand.
How about War nickels? Try and sell some War Nickels. They are even hard to smelt down and draw off the silver...it's cost prohibitive right now.
Silver was separated in buckets. One for 999, one for sterling, one for 90% etc. So long as the silver went in the proper bucket it would normally assay about right.
Most low grade metals including silver like war nickels are never refined into pure metal because of the cost. They are used as alloy when making other products. War nickels specifically are often used for making electrical contacts of various types. Right now war nickels wholesale 77.7% of spot silver. This goes upand down as the demand for low grade silver fluctuates. Think of it this way; if they don't have war nickels to use in making low silver content products then they have to buy 999 and add alloys. Even the copper and other metals in the war nickels have limited value. Obviously as 999 the war nickels would be worth substantially more. No doubt a few are refined.
While the time period of this run-up in metals prices was brief the intensity was exceptional. Long lines at coin dealers were common as the general public tried to cash in on the high metal prices.
Indeed!
But most of these lines of sellers were in January to April of 1980 after the price had crashed. There were lots of sellers in November and December but I never saw any lines until later. A lot of the business in coin shops was still customers buying silver.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Most low grade metals including silver like war nickels are never refined into pure metal because of the cost. They are used as alloy when making other products. War nickels specifically are often used for making electrical contacts of various types. Right now war nickels wholesale 77.7% of spot silver. This goes upand down as the demand for low grade silver fluctuates.
War nickels began selling at premiums around late 1963, a year or two before 90% silver followed suit. They have never been in high demand by silver stackers, so likely they have been sent to the smelters at a higher rate than 90% silver coins. Some of the lower mintages such as 1942-S and 1944-S might actually be scarcer now than the more famous 1950-D. (The lowest-mintage 1943-D war nickel was saved in quantity and likely was subjected to less melting than the other dates.)
War nickels began selling at premiums around late 1963, a year or two before 90% silver followed suit. They have never been in high demand by silver stackers, so likely they have been sent to the smelters at a higher rate than 90% silver coins. Some of the lower mintages such as 1942-S and 1944-S might actually be scarcer now than the more famous 1950-D. (The lowest-mintage 1943-D war nickel was saved in quantity and likely was subjected to less melting than the other dates.)
In nice VF and better the '44-S may be scarcer than the '50-D. I had never thought of it this way but this is a tough date in higher circulated grades. It depends a lot on how many BU coins were set aside.
There are probably still lots and lots of low end coins despite being among the first silver removed from circulation due to containing more silver per face value.
Jeffersons are an underappreciated series and there are a lot of coins that are much less available than people realize.
War nickels began selling at premiums around late 1963, a year or two before 90% silver followed suit. They have never been in high demand by silver stackers, so likely they have been sent to the smelters at a higher rate than 90% silver coins. Some of the lower mintages such as 1942-S and 1944-S might actually be scarcer now than the more famous 1950-D. (The lowest-mintage 1943-D war nickel was saved in quantity and likely was subjected to less melting than the other dates.)
In nice VF and better the '44-S may be scarcer than the '50-D. I had never thought of it this way but this is a tough date in higher circulated grades. It depends a lot on how many BU coins were set aside.
There are probably still lots and lots of low end coins despite being among the first silver removed from circulation due to containing more silver per face value.
Jeffersons are an underappreciated series and there are a lot of coins that are much less available than people realize.
Unfortunately, Jefferson nickels have been essentially dead since the late 1960's. I don't see any reason to believe that situation will change in the future. They had their day but that day is now over.