Image Request: Norweb 1893-S Before Alleged Conservation

jerseycat101 · April 16, 2015 5:04AM

I've seen many images of this coin, before it was allegedly conserved, as well as images of it's 1893-S brethren (e.g. vermeule, eliasberg, etc).

But I cannot seem to find a picture of the Norweb coin before it's alleged date with the dipper.

I've read references to it allegedly being a pretty, russet gray coin.

Thanks!

Tibor · April 16, 2015 5:17AM

I would also appreciate seeing pictures of this coin pre-dipping (conserving).
I would like to see side by side pictures just for comparison. I read when the
post conserved coin came up for auction the auctioneer just shook their
head in dis-belief. Hopefully someone with computer skills can provide the
side by side pics.

keyman64 · April 16, 2015 5:27AM

When the cleaning happened, there was a link in that thread to a coin website that had a "before" ...it would require someone to dig that up. I think there was only one image out there that surfaced.

EagleEye · April 16, 2015 5:46AM

This is from the catalog.

This is from here.

Buying the 1893-S Norweb dollar

EagleEye · April 16, 2015 6:59AM

From the web site I linked:

They are offering it as if it was never dipped, and in a PCGS MS67 holder!

PCGS MS67
FINEST KNOWN
$850,000.00

This is what it really looks like now:

Tibor · April 16, 2015 7:37AM

Thank you Rick for taking time to find the links.

Connecticoin · April 16, 2015 8:15AM

What a hack job. Look like it sat in E-Z-Est for at least 20 minutes.

IIRC NGC did the right thing and bought that abomination.

CalGold · April 16, 2015 8:24AM

<< IIRC NGC did the right thing and bought that abomination >>

Yeah, the dip job did not go well. They should have left it alone. They blew it. I suppose that can stand as a warning to anyone thinking of dipping an expensive coin. Otherwise so what? Every time this coin is referenced here it engenders wailing and wringing of hands from a host of people who would never have been a bidder for the coin in its original state. And even as "ruined" it is better than the 93-s that most folks own.

By the way, someone ruined the Eliasberg 1875 Proof Eagle. When sold at auction a few years back it had been dipped and showed hairlines. Hope that news has not ruined your day.

CG

AMRC · April 16, 2015 8:36AM

I had the pleasure of selling this coin in 2013. The purchaser and I were very happy with the look of the coin and agreed that taking it down to a MS66 was the right thing to do. If you ever have a chance to look at the coin closely (I spent a long time with that puppy under a light), it really is relatively blemish free.

This is a nice piece for what it is.

steveben · April 16, 2015 8:36AM

JJSingleton · April 16, 2015 8:49AM

It is a shame.

ColonelJessup · April 16, 2015 8:50AM

IIRC, the color from the catalogue is a bit rich, Mmy customer was in at about $225K

. . . . IIRC went from Ed Milas to George Bodeway It's possible Chris Napolitano, then Summit RC, now StacksBowers, later handled both of them for a customer as a broker, and recommended against the "process". I have no idea who owned the coin when it became a imishkeit. That piece of metal was subject to possibly two processes, one a chemical treatment much stronger than Jewel-Luster, the other some sort of electrical/physics thing, like reverse electrolysis (suggested by two doctors). Cyanide comes out better than that. Double-gloved and a special environment. Shame I didn't know what it was or how the process(es?), whatever they were, might come out.

Now I do. I grade it Unc details, altered surfaces. You find the flow lines. What's with the spot on the cheek? detect from the "original" images" from before the mustard gas.

$500,000 loss or more. Maybe 0 .2 technical points better than Vermeule/Coronet coin, but a full scale down in prettiness and intensity. That was before. I've loved the coin since I saw it raw in TonyT's hand at the back of Stacks as Harvey passed a few Vermeule knick-knacks around. if you recognized Tony as top-tier plus in EAC and C4, Indian Peace medals, and everything Early US after Guttenberg published the first Red Book up till when John Reich kicked the bucket, you might be as cognitively dissonated as I was when he insisted that he split a 92-S Superior auction lot (raw, "choice, "mid-87) with Martin Paul and I. which he insisted couldn't grade it higher than EAC 64, but "whatever the f@@k you think a gem is, that's it. That's a nicenice 92-S".

$55K all-in and we got $75K from Highfill (six months to pay). The coin wasn't as comely as the Norweb 93-S. Dusky, perfect, but might not CAC. On the other hand the Eliasberg 92-S PCGS 67 blazing 67+ on the obverse will not go 65 because of the three discernible hits" on the breast.

On the Vermeule 93-S, Tony's grade is not 67 (whatever the f@@k that is) but, in Brooklynese, Reeeaaaally f@@king nice. You saw the thing on the cheek, right?". I immediately asked Harvey for 30-30-30 without mentioning anything except $300Kish and my mentor and friend sensibly told me he wasn't a bank.

Vermeule had very vibrant color. Just s an aside, the first Vermeule coins sold in November were original scheduled to go under the hammer September 11.

Damn that Jack Lee. He owned a bank. The Red Rat was bidding for him via cell.

Eddie Milas wouldn't finance me because he might bid. Andy, except when he's selling me something, often thinks what I'll pay for stuff is high. The term "nuts" has been mumbled, then shouted. I think I came in 5th. I ate at a McDonald's on the way home.

But perhaps I digress . . .

Edited to add: The "for sale" image is right on. Thanks, Rick

I'm sure Bodeway was a PCGS-only guy, and Eddie knew it was a stone lock. But I'm theorizing" It would be interesting to see whether the NGC 67 was on their census before the violation of the Geneva Convention took place, which was during this current millennium. .

kranky · April 16, 2015 9:20AM

How can you not love the Colonel's posts?

lkeigwin · April 16, 2015 9:37AM

<< How can you not love the Colonel's posts?

>>

Stream of consciousness comes to mind.

Lance.

gypsylea · April 16, 2015 9:47AM

<< 

<< How can you not love the Colonel's posts?

>>

Stream of consciousness comes to mind.

Lance. >>

You are assuming he's conscious😁

tradedollarnut · April 16, 2015 11:09AM

<< I had the pleasure of selling this coin in 2013. The purchaser and I were very happy with the look of the coin and agreed that taking it down to a MS66 was the right thing to do. If you ever have a chance to look at the coin closely (I spent a long time with that puppy under a light), it really is relatively blemish free.

This is a nice piece for what it is. >>

Uhmmm....okkkkk

coindeuce · April 16, 2015 11:13AM

The Minneapolis Company that was in possession of the coin may have had it seized by the bankruptcy court in Minneapolis in or around 2012. Whether the coin was "conserved" before or after it came into possession of the bankrupcy court is mostly irrelevant. The damage is done. The actions involving this company are of public record, as reported in The Minneapolis Star Tribune, 11/15/2012

Connecticoin · April 16, 2015 9:22PM

<< Yeah, the dip job did not go well. CG >>

That's the understatement of the century. The original coin has full booming luster -- the "conservation" guys are supposedly "pros" and are supposed to at least preserve the luster.

That job looks like a 12 year old kid got a hold of it and held it in the dip jar until every last bit of "tarnish" was gone, and then left it for 5 minutes more for good measure.

jerseycat101 · April 17, 2015 12:36AM

I appreciate all the info. It is a shame that there aren't higher quality images of this coin before it's alleged conservation.

I very much enjoyed ColonelJessups monologue as well.

garrynot · April 17, 2015 1:10AM

<< I appreciate all the info. It is a shame that there aren't higher quality images of this coin before it's alleged conservation.

I very much enjoyed ColonelJessups monologue as well. >>

The after picture isn't that great either. It's not equivalent to any of our esteemed members photographing it.

Connecticoin · April 17, 2015 5:36AM

Gotta love this image from Coinweek:

DollarAfterDollar · April 17, 2015 9:36AM

For a coin so rich in history and so greatly valued by many, the pictures are horribad.

ColonelJessup.....................decaf.

That is all.

ColonelJessup · April 17, 2015 12:39PM

<< For a coin so rich in history and so greatly valued by many, the pictures are horribad.

ColonelJessup.....................decaf.

That is all. >>

Maybe a paradoxical reaction from the Prozac. I got three paragraphs and a note from my doctor anytime you piss me off. A shame the truth is the best defense. . . .

I've been practicing my false humility. And I'm very proud of how well I'm doing.

Image Request: Norweb 1893-S Before Alleged Conservation

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