Grade these 20 PCGS Graded Barber Half's and win a PCGS VF Barber Half! Grades Posted

amwldcoin

Thought this might be fun! The 1st person that nails all 20 I will give a PCGS VF20 Barber Half! I will let this run up to 2 weeks.

1 1893

2 1893-O

3 1895

4 1897

5 1898-S

6 1900

7 1900-S

8 1902-S

9 1903

10 1903-O

11 1904-O

12 1905-S

13 1906-O

14 1906-S

15 1908

16 1908-S

17 1909-O

18 1909-S

19 1911-D

20 1914-S

TomB

This should make for a very interesting contest. One thing you may want to clarify, however, is this; should one guess the grades that PCGS assigned or the grades that you believe the coins to be? As you know, they can be two different animals.

amwldcoin

Tom! Of course what PCGS graded them! I will post pictures of the slabs at the end of the contest! How could I compete with PCGS?

@TomB said:
This should make for a very interesting contest. One thing you may want to clarify, however, is this; should one guess the grades that PCGS assigned or the grades that you believe the coins to be? As you know, they can be two different animals.

JKT

Cool contest Darrell! This will be interesting, educational, and tough!! Guess I'll go first....here goes nuthin':

1. VF 20
2. VG 10
3. VG 8
4. F 15
5. F 12
6. VF 20
7. F 12
8. F 12
9. VF 20
10. VF 20
11. F 12
12. F 15
13. VF 20
14. VF 20
15. F 15
16. VF 20
17. VF 20
18. VF 25
19. F 12
20. F 15

amwldcoin

Thought I would add this. After a week has passed and if no one has won...I will allow a second entry! I want some one to win!

LogPotato

This will be fun, at least for me. I will schedule some time to really go through these. One question, are they all straight graded? Or is that part of the GTG? I haven't looked at all of them in detail yet.

JBN

Thanks for the effort. 12, 10, 10, 12, 10, 12, 12, 12, 15, 12, 10, 12, 15, 12, 12, 12, 10, 12, 10 ,12.

dogwood

One time top to bottom, first impression:
1/15
2/10
3/10
4/12
5/10
6/15
7/12
8/15
9/20
10/20
11/12
12/12
13/15
14/15
15/15
16/20
17/12
18/20
19/12
20/15
No one will get them all correct. So many of these can go 2 ways, and neither are wrong. Some surfaces are marky, some strikes have characteristics that are their own, etc. I will say the 06o is the best of the bunch.
Fun! Thanks for the contest.

joeykoins

Very Tough! Thanks for the chance.
1.F 15
2.vg10
3.vg8
4.vf20
5.vg10
6.vf20
7.vf20
8.f12
9.vf20
10.vf20
11.vf20
12.vf20
13.vf20
14.vf20
15.vf20
16.vf20
17.vf20
18.vf20
19.f15
20.vf20

amwldcoin

Justin,they are all straight graded!

@LogPotato said:
This will be fun, at least for me. I will schedule some time to really go through these. One question, are they all straight graded? Or is that part of the GTG? I haven't looked at all of them in detail yet.

amwldcoin

Yeah...pretty sure that 06-O is going to replace the one in my set. That's the look I Luv!

@dogwood said:
One time top to bottom, first impression:
1/15
2/10
3/10
4/12
5/10
6/15
7/12
8/15
9/20
10/20
11/12
12/12
13/15
14/15
15/15
16/20
17/12
18/20
19/12
20/15
No one will get them all correct. So many of these can go 2 ways, and neither are wrong. Some surfaces are marky, some strikes have characteristics that are their own, etc. I will say the 06o is the best of the bunch.
Fun! Thanks for the contest.

mannie gray

This is like trying to hit six trifectas in a row....but here goes
1. 15
2. 10
3. 10
4. 20
5. 10
6. 15
7. 10
8. 12
9. 15
10. 15
11. 10
12. 12
13. 12
14. 12
15. 12
16. 15
17. 12
18. 15
19. 10
20. 12
21. Thank you for a cool idea........
This thread may last as long as the coin-uno thread.......

1630Boston

1 25
2 20
3 15
4 20
5 10
6 12
7 15
8 10
9 12
10 20

11 12
12 20
13 12
14 20
15 20
16 20
17 12
18 20
19 12
20 20

LogPotato

I tried to grade how I felt PCGS would grade these coins. Some I would grade lower, and some I'm sure PCGS would grade even higher than I listed here. Fun contest, thanks.

20, 12, 10, 20, 12, 25, 12, 12, 25, 25, 12, 15, 15, 25, 20, 20, 15, 20, 15, 20

coinkat

1-25
2-10
3- 8
4-20
5- 8
6-20
7-15
8-15
9-20
10-20
11-12
12-15
13-15
14-15
15-15
16-30
17-15
18-25
19-10
20-12

Thanks for doing this... Obviously not my series. NIce images and well done. Thanks again and you can stop laughing now.

georgiacop50

1. 15
2. 10
3. 10
4. 12
5. 10
6. 12
7. 12
8. 12
9. 15
10. 20
11. 8
12. 12
13. 12
14. 15
15. 15
16. 15
17. 12
18. 15
19. 12
20. 12

ricko

OK... this will take time.....To quote a movie character (and former governor)...."I'll be back!"... Cheers, RickO

logger7

It's hard to believe they would all straight grade; "issues" like on some of those have no-graded as "damaged" for less in my submissions.

dogwood

The thing I go by for VF is the standard that 'All 7 letters of LIBERTY wil be complete'.
Thus, LIPFPTY should not be a VF, but often makes the cut with a grader if enough secondary details are present. That's the grey area.
Or you have a justifiably 'complete' LIBERTY, as in coins 6 & 14, but the rest of the remaining detail, just doesn't "look" like a VF should.
There are a lot of Fine 18 coins in this run.
I just don't know how you finalize, short of having one bump up if it has superior eye appeal.

amwldcoin

Dogwood, I agree with the 7 letters but nowadays that just isn't the case. It's becoming difficult to find recently graded VF20's with a complete liberty(unless it's dated 1909! ).

Edit to add....many New Orleans coins,even in old holders do not have a complete Liberty in VF.

gummibear

1. 12
2. 10
3. 10
4. 12
5. 10
6. 15
7. 10
8. 12
9. 12
10. 12
11. 10
12. 12
13. 15
14. 12
15. 12
16. 12
17. 15
18. 15
19. 12
20. 15
    Thanks for the fun.
    Richard

ms70

This is not easy! Thanks for the fun contest!

20
10
08
12
12
15
12
15
15
20
08
10
06
08
20
15
10
25
12
15

1Mike1

15
10
10
15
10
15
12
12
15
20
12
15
15
15
15
20
15
20
12
15

Lucanus

OK Darrell, since it would be nearly impossible for anyone to guess all 20 exactly, I think you're having fun with us and want to demonstrate the variance within a given grade. Therefore my guess is that all 20 coins are F12.

Doug

Lucanus

Darrell, my second guess is that all 20 coins are F15.

Doug

Lucanus

My third and final guess is that all 20 coins are VF20, which I know is absurd, since I graded at least one coin VG10.

Doug

amwldcoin

Lucanus, They are different grades.

Lucanus

Really? No one will ever get them all correct.

Doug

amwldcoin

@Lucanus said:
Really? No one will ever get them all correct.

Doug

What would you suggest I do? I am offering a $100+ coin! I don't want to give it away too easy! I will give my 1st tip...They are all in 8000 series holders. I have noticed a relaxing of grading standards....which is what Rick Snow is complaining about and I tend to agree!

No Headlights

According to our family math wiz there are over 1,100 possible answers. I told her to base it on three possible answers for each of the twenty items. This thread may be up for quite some time. Have fun all

Lucanus

Reward the coin to the most correct out of 20.
Since they are different grades, here are my guesses when I first examined them:

1. 15
2. 12
3. 10
4. 15
5. 12
6. 20
7. 12
8. 12
9. 15
   10.15
   11.12
   12.12
   13.15
   14.15
   15.12
   16.15
   17.12
   18.15
   19.12
   20.12

WoodenJefferson

1. VF-30
2. VF-20
3. F-15
4. VF-30
5. F-15
6. VF-20
7. VF-30
8. VF-20
9. VF-20
10. VF-20
11. VF-25
12. VF-25
13. VF-30
14. VF-20
15. VF-30
16. VF20
17. VF-20
18. VF-30
19. VF-20
20. VF-30

PocketArt

Thanks for chance!

1.) VF30
2.) VF20
3.) VF15
4.) VF30
5.) F15
6.) VF30
7.) F15
8.) VF20
9.) VF20
10.) VF30
11.) F15
12.) VF30
13.) VF30
14.) VF20
15.) F15
16.) VF20
17.) VF20
18.) VF35
19.) VF30
20.) F15

barberkeys

Here are my guesses of what our hosts (recently) said:
15,12,10,15,12,25,12,15,20,20
15,20,20,20,15,15,25,2515,15

Thanks Darrell, for taking the time to put this up.

rte592

I'll have to come back to these when I have more time, BUT I can already see I need to ease up on my grading and I'M selling my Barbers WAY too cheap.

Whit

Hello all: There are indeed over 1100 possible answers. If we grant each coin one of precisely 3 possible grades, then the number of different ways to submit a list of grades of 20 coins is 3 to the 20th power, which is 3,486,784,401.

Whit

Whit

It would be quite interesting to take the average of the submitted grades of each coin, and see how close the average is to the assigned grade.

amwldcoin

@Whit said:
It would be quite interesting to take the average of the submitted grades of each coin, and see how close the average is to the assigned grade.

When it's time to reveal perhaps you could do that and see if you win!

Whit

Just for the the fun of it, I used the 17 entries above to calculate 1) the average conjectured grade of each coin, rounded to the nearest recognized grade number, and 2) the median conjectured grade, and 3) the modal conjectured grade. I do not guarantee my data entry skills or my skills in transcribing lists of numbers from the computer screen to a spreadsheet. But barring any errors on my part at this late hour, I see that there are 9 coins that agree in all 3 metrics. Only 1 coin was bimodal. Of the 11 coins in which not all 3 metrics were equal, each coin presented a 2/1 split.

If I had to post a list based on these data, I know how I'd do it. And I'll post it with amwldcoin's consent (and respectfully decline the prize if they are all right, which they won't be ..... ); otherwise, I'll post it after the contest is over.

I really do have a life ... as a math prof.

Good night, all ......
Whit

Also, the standard deviations were in the 4-6 range, with coin #5 the notable exception with an s.d. less than 2.

jtlee321

Well here is my shot at it. This was a fun and tough exercise. Thanks for doing this.

1. F-15
2. VG-10
3. VG-10
4. F-15
5. F-12
6. F-15
7. F-15
8. F-12
9. F-15
10. F-12
11. VG-10
12. F-12
13. F-12
14. F-12
15. F-15
16. F-15
17. F-12
18. F-15
19. F-12
20. F-15

amwldcoin

I don't see any reason why you should not post! I'm certain it will not have any bearing on the contest. You also do not have to decline the prize if you post the correct grades!

@Whit said:
Just for the the fun of it, I used the 17 entries above to calculate 1) the average conjectured grade of each coin, rounded to the nearest recognized grade number, and 2) the median conjectured grade, and 3) the modal conjectured grade. I do not guarantee my data entry skills or my skills in transcribing lists of numbers from the computer screen to a spreadsheet. But barring any errors on my part at this late hour, I see that there are 9 coins that agree in all 3 metrics. Only 1 coin was bimodal. Of the 11 coins in which not all 3 metrics were equal, each coin presented a 2/1 split.

If I had to post a list based on these data, I know how I'd do it. And I'll post it with amwldcoin's consent (and respectfully decline the prize if they are all right, which they won't be ..... ); otherwise, I'll post it after the contest is over.

I really do have a life ... as a math prof.

Good night, all ......
Whit

Also, the standard deviations were in the 4-6 range, with coin #5 the notable exception with an s.d. less than 2.

Whit

Good morning, all: With apologies in advance for any arithmetic or transcription or counting errors, here are some summary statistics drawn from the 17 entries above jtlee321's entry (which came in too late for me to incorporate).

The median is always in agreement with either the mode or the rounded average, so if I had to form an entry from these statistics alone, my list would be the median column. The two coins displaying the greatest agreement among the contestants are #2 and #10. In each case, 11 entries posited the modal scores VG10 and VF20, respectively. The least agreement: #4, #6, #14, #17, #18. In those cases, the modal scores were submitted by only 6 contestants. Ranges were large. Coin #13 received grades from 6 to 30. Coins #11 and #14 had a range of 8 to 25. Coin #18 had a range of 12 to 35, and coins #7, #12, and #19 had the range 10 to 30. Coin #5 had the narrow range 8 to 15.

         rounded
          average  median        mode

1. ---------------- 20 --------------- 15 ---------------- 15
2. ---------------- 12 --------------- 10 ---------------- 10
3. ---------------- 10 --------------- 10 ---------------- 10
4. ---------------- 15 --------------- 15 ---------------- 12
5. ---------------- 12 --------------- 10 ---------------- 10
6. ---------------- 20 --------------- 15 ---------------- 15
7. ---------------- 15 --------------- 12 ---------------- 12
8. ---------------- 15 --------------- 12 ---------------- 12
9. ---------------- 20 --------------- 20 ---------------- 20
10. --------------- 20 --------------- 20 ---------------- 20
11. --------------- 12 --------------- 12 ---------------- 12
12. --------------- 15 --------------- 15 ---------------- 12
13. --------------- 15 --------------- 15 ---------------- 15
14. --------------- 15 --------------- 15 ---------------- 15, 20
15. --------------- 15 --------------- 15 ---------------- 15
16. ---------------- 20 --------------- 20 ---------------- 20
17. ---------------- 15 --------------- 15 ---------------- 12
18. ---------------- 20 --------------- 20 ---------------- 20
19. ---------------- 15 --------------- 12 ---------------- 12
20. ---------------- 15 --------------- 15 ---------------- 15

I think that every coin in the collecting universe can be assigned an incorrect grade, but that extremely few coins, if any, possess precisely one correct grade (especially among mint state coins). This is my take-away from over 50 years of observing collectors, dealers, auction houses, and TPGs from the third to the first world. (I'm a collector only.)

Thanks to amwldcoin, and Happy collecting!

Whit

dogwood

Whit, good work thanks!
Very valuable addition to the thread.
Also glad to see I concurred with all results in attaching a VF 20 grade to 9, 10, 16, and 20, in my opinion the only VFs in the group. Well there is one I'd bump up from 15 after a 2nd look, but too late. That's subjective grading for you.

amwldcoin

Whit,Interesting ! Dogwood, everyone gets a second chance. No one has been correct...even Whit's averages.

It has been 1 week since I posted so a second round of chances.
Now for some tips:
The lowest graded coin is a F12! There are 7 VF's in the group. Now it is going to be tougher for me to weedout the guesses because everyone graded the 95 a VG-10! I know if I submitted that coin it would be in a VG10 holder!

coinkat

So have you stopped laughing yet? I just started again in view of your last post... 7 in VF and I graded 7 in VF. And of course they are not the same 7 but at least there were 7. Never saw the 95 as a 12

MFH

I spotted this Thread the other day - but am now just getting around to throw in my 2c...

I made a list of 5 collectors whose opinions I value highly. I then did an average of each coin's
grade... and then, I went back to the first OP and made my grading decision without relying on the others' grades.

All I can say is that there are five coins that I would have graded VF 18... too bad that grade has gone by the boards.
These five coins I thought were VF 18 are: 1900-P; 1903-P; 1903-O; 1905-S and 1906-O.

I have not studied these grades in all earnest since I was in college... My set back then was a combination of VG 8 to F 12
most coins were VG 10.

Okay - flame away - the Old Coot's Grades are:

1= 15
2= 12
3= 10
4= 12
5= 10
6= 20
7= 12
8= 15
9= 20
10 = 15
11= 12
12= 15
13= 15
14= 20
15= 15
16= 20
17= 12
18= 20
19= 15
20= 15

JMHO

Quick Tally:
Of the five other participants I look up to,

1) I agreed with 9 of his grades { Doug }
2) I agreed with 10 of his grades { Vern }
3) I agreed with 9 of his grades { Justin }
4) I agreed with 14 of his grades { Dennis }
5) I agreed with 9 of his grades { J.T. }

I just didn't have the time to incorporate the other
participants in the survey.

amwldcoin

Mike! I was wondering when you would chime in! Too bad you missed my previous post!

MFH

Can I amend my guesses because of the statement no coin is under a 12 ??
7 x VF 20.... lol....

spacehayduke

1 - 15
2 - 12
3 - 12
4 - 15
5 - 12
6 - 20
7 - 12
8 - 12
9 - 15
10 - 15
11 - 12
12 - 12
13 - 12
14 - 15
15 - 15
16 - 15
17 -15
18 - 20
19 - 12
20 - 15

amwldcoin

Hi,Mike
Everyone gets 2 chances!

@MFH said:
Can I amend my guesses because of the statement no coin is under a 12 ??
7 x VF 20.... lol....

georgiacop50

second attempt:

1. 20
2. 12
3. 12
4. 12
5. 12
6. 15
7. 12
8. 12
9. 25
10. 20
11. 12
12. 12
13. 15
14. 20
15. 20
16. 20
17. 12
18. 20
19. 15
20. 15