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Am I missing something on this Redfield Morgan?

OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
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I didn't know Redfields commanded such a premium. Or is there something I don't see?

Cheers

Bob

Comments

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,944 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Normal reverse not the reverse of 78. Probably someone is trying for a date/mm set of Redfields. I believe the Redfields only came in black holders but not 100% sure. Looks like a 61. These come nice so nothing special abut the coin, its the holder.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I didn't know they came in green. I've only seen the black and red holders. As for the Redfield holders, every coin I've seen in them that was graded MS-65 was over graded. I don't know what the attraction is, but I guess there are people who collect these things.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    People collect all sorts of things... and numismatists are no different. Holders, labels, provenance, stickers, VAMs, cuds, errors, tarnish..... if it is discernible, someone will collect it.

    Cheers, RickO
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a black holder without a grade (usually the blacks have a MS60 grade) and that is super rare.



    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • morgandollar1878morgandollar1878 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: thebigeng

    Normal reverse not the reverse of 78. Probably someone is trying for a date/mm set of Redfields. I believe the Redfields only came in black holders but not 100% sure. Looks like a 61. These come nice so nothing special abut the coin, its the holder.






    Redfield Morgans also came in red holders, and I do believe green holders as well.

    Instagram: nomad_numismatics
  • CCDollarCCDollar Posts: 717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Refields are quite popular in the right crowd. It's rare to see one in any Nevada or Reno B & M stores...however, they where still stacked like cord wood a few years after they came out...they couldn't give them away. I have stated a while back in a previous thread that I grew up somewhat near his Mansion (and boy was it scary). I follow them quite closely on ebay and coin shows just for fun. Common date black holders with the common toning go for around $200.00 and red ones for about $300.00 max. If you take your time you can get a good deal lower. Green ones are very rare and the sky is the limit.

    So..My two cents here is that you have two people who want one coin.

    Also...Beware...and this is my number one pet peeve with these. Many sellers advertise "Redfield" dollars in the Paramount holders...which is another story. Again...If it doesn't say "From the Redfield Collection"...it is not a Redfield.


    CC
    image
    Nickel Triumph...My Led Zepps
  • cheezhedcheezhed Posts: 5,669 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've seen higher premiums paid for less coin.

    Many happy BST transactions
  • CCDollarCCDollar Posts: 717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not want to offend the seller and speak a non truth...but that coin is not marked "Paramount Internation coin Corp". If I am wrong and there is something I don't know, please correct me and I will learn something new.
    CC
    Nickel Triumph...My Led Zepps
  • ScootersdadScootersdad Posts: 171 ✭✭✭
    They command higher premium, sometimes ridiculous ask prices.
    I have a few different variations. 1 like you see on Ebay Black "A Silver Dollar from The Redfield Collection". 2 Black "A Silver Dollar from The Redfield Collection Mint State 60 Paramount International Coin Corp." I've also seen a burgundy mint state 65 Redfield
    and a green mint state 65+Redfield.
    After Paramount ran out of Redfield Dollars they continued slabbing other Morgans.
    I have a black U.S. Silver Dollar Mint State 60 Paramount International Coin Corp,
    also Red one and a Burgundy U.S. Silver Dollar Mint State 65 Paramount International Coin Corp.
    Could be others, Paramount also had a wooden box to fit 5? slabs for their special customers
    which I've never seen in person but a few are around for the right price.
    Hopr this helps
  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,214 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These were encapsulated back in the day when there was MS 60, MS 63 and MS 65. Many were just assigned what seemed "fair" to the coin. As best I know, Redfield's came in Red holders. The others are Paramount's I think. This accumulation was sold off at auction and divided among several Dealers of the day. There may have been different holders created by the different Dealers involved.

    Interestingly, there's no record of how many coins of specific dates and mint marks were in the hoard. Hell, I might have the only 1888 "O" MS 65 Redfield in existence. Yatzee!

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • CCDollarCCDollar Posts: 717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    An '88-O! That is a good one. It is my understanding and observation that only the Paramount Holders have a big premium. I don't even look at the TPG'ers coins. The Paramount story is well documented and very interesting...a big gamble was made and paid off. I guess this is a rare example of buying the holder and not the coin...the toning from the card board holders can be amazing. I have been told by a few old timers that the grading (or sorting) was done by college students for a part time job. They sorted by the looks of the coins. You must keep in mind that the 70 point grading system was not used professionally at the time. Most of the coins are baggy...my guess is being later releases from the San Francisco Mint that had been stored and moved around for years...then being sent to Nevada...then being dumped and moved around in a coal bin. I have a fond memory of seeing Mr. Redfield walking down Mt. Rose Street in about 1958 heading home with two bags of Dollars in each arm. I was standing up in the passenger seat at the time in my Mom's 1957 Mercury Montclair...I was 5 years old (yes we did that then) and she said..."Oh my God...that's LaVere Redfield" and she sped off. No offense to Mr. Redfield but he was dressed looking like a bum and was thought of as the Boogie Man. The Redfield family estate has done many good things in our area in the last 40 years. That's it...that's my story...take care...

    CC
    Nickel Triumph...My Led Zepps
  • RollermanRollerman Posts: 1,840 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The Redfield story is a fascinating one, there is a recent book out telling the story. 174,000 silver dollars were found in his basement. I have a few of these holdered Redfield dollars and have done a display with them telling the story in an abbreviated form. When those coins were released, we only really had two grades, MS60 and MS65. The MS60's ran baggy and/or dull luster or unattractively toned and anything half way nice were MS65's which accounts for so many seemingly being overgraded and of course many were.
    Pete
    "Ain't None of Them play like him (Bix Beiderbecke) Yet."
    Louis Armstrong
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: DollarAfterDollar

    These were encapsulated back in the day when there was MS 60, MS 63 and MS 65. Many were just assigned what seemed "fair" to the coin. As best I know, Redfield's came in Red holders. The others are Paramount's I think. This accumulation was sold off at auction and divided among several Dealers of the day. There may have been different holders created by the different Dealers involved.



    Interestingly, there's no record of how many coins of specific dates and mint marks were in the hoard. Hell, I might have the only 1888 "O" MS 65 Redfield in existence. Yatzee!







    Wrong. The Redfield dollars were encapsulated using the Sheldon System, which only recognized MS-60, 65 and 70 in the Uncirculated range. I would say that anything closer to 65 than 60 got the 65 grade.



    That is one reason why when I started the ANACS grading system in March of 1979 I created MS-63 and MS-67. The 63 was for coins noticibly closer to 65 than 60 but not there according to the standards. The 67 was for coins noticeably better than 65 but not perfect.



    That said, I don't think I have ever seen a Redfield green holder.



    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CCDollarCCDollar Posts: 717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    CaptHenway...very interesting...learn something new every day. The green holders I have seen are not Forest Green...more like a deep dull Olive Green. I do believe that the black holders sometimes don't look black at all...more Indigo. Don't know...my memory and eyes are getting older every day. Can someone chime in or show us a Green Holder?

    CC
    Nickel Triumph...My Led Zepps
  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Informative thread. Thanks.
  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,108 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe there were basically four tiers

    black not labeled MS60 - impaired (i.e. cabinet friction, etc. Probably todays AU53, 55)
    black labeled MS60 - todays 60-63
    red labeled MS65 - today's 64, 65
    green labeled MS65+ - todays 66 and higher
    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,944 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Great information everyone, and thanks for learning me up!
  • thisnamztakenthisnamztaken Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting thread/subject.
    I never thought that growing old would happen so fast.
    - Jim
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks to all for the great information. What prompted this thread is that I have always wanted to own just one Redfield in the original holder. I have always likes the ones in the black holders because they seem to tone nicer than the others.

    While doing a search, I found an 1896 in a black (MS-60) holder. The asking price was $247 with the "make offer" option. So, I made an offer of $130 and it was accepted. I had a bid on the one that is the subject of this thread and that was beat by a longshot. Naturally, it piqued my curiosity as to why I got mine so cheap. It certainly wasn't the grade, because it turned out to be every bit MS-63, and the toning was nice.

    At any rate, what I did realize is that if you want a Redfield, you must accept the fact that you are going to pay up to several times the value of a common Morgan or Peace dollar to have one.

    Cheers

    Bob
  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some people are 'color blind', not necessarily missing anything.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,795 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: cheezhed
    I've seen higher premiums paid for less coin.


    'zactly… what's missed ? Only passionate collectors of them know and anyone else who endeavors into a niche in the hobby through the market…., just like certain "hobo nickel" collectors know what they're looking for. Once we gather to find out, it jacks the prices higher. Interest does that.

    There is a huge premium on certain collectibles. I won't pretend to know , or even suspect that it's about color, (red, green, black)… as much as a prized piece for those who are on a quest to get them.

    Who knows why ? That's why this hobby is and will always be a "phenomena".


    Who in their right mind would pay $10 million greenback paper dollars for one large brown or red cent, unless he's in the black ?

    It's just what it is. I missed it , too.

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