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Scratches... Yield what type of percentage discount?

BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
If you saw a coin which was rare that had a couple scratches what should it sell for percentage wise compared to a example without?



Lets say overall it's still a great looking coin if you can look beyond the damage.
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!

Comments

  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,339 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are they scratches or die polish lines?
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That depends on the sharpness. If the piece is well worn, scratches are more acceptable.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: thebigeng

    Are they scratches or die polish lines?




    Post mint damage gouged.



    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Sonorandesertrat

    That depends on the sharpness. If the piece is well worn, scratches are more acceptable.




    CH BU extremely well struck for the issue.

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 7,339 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hard to answer with out knowing what it is, but for some coins It would not matter. A VG S1 Chain with a full date a couple of scratches I would pay asking price.. A gouge would depend on where it is. Across the face or on the reverse in the dentals.
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Got it. ChBU, PMD-gouged. Weeeell...knock of enough $$ to buy a couple of bottles of wine to help you 'get in the mood' for viewing that one.

    At least 50% if the gouges are in a prime focal area.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Sonorandesertrat

    Got it. ChBU, PMD-gouged. Weeeell...knock of enough $$ to buy a couple of bottles of wine to help you 'get in the mood' for viewing that one.




    image



    Scratches are in the field only...



    The coin isn't coyote ugly that you need to be drunk to view it image



    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
    Well it's definitely a negotiating point, but there are too many variables for a hard and fast rule.
    How long and deep, where they are, how distracting, etc.
  • GRANDAMGRANDAM Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: Broadstruck

    Originally posted by: Sonorandesertrat

    Got it. ChBU, PMD-gouged. Weeeell...knock of enough $$ to buy a couple of bottles of wine to help you 'get in the mood' for viewing that one.




    image



    Scratches are in the field only...



    The coin isn't coyote ugly that you need to be drunk to view it image







    No but the morning after you buy it you might want to chew your arm off for doing so image
    GrandAm :)
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As described, for a rare, pre-1940 US coin, I'd probably say it's valued at the price of a VF-AU55 coin. And that range depends on the damage. General estimate would be 15-35% of the undamaged coin. For a 19th century bust, barber, or seated coin, I'd usually rather have a problem free XF-AU than a field-gouged unc. If we chose something like an Unc 1893-s Morgan with gouges, it would probably bring 55/58 money due to limited number of uncs.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,680 ✭✭✭✭
    For me, the presence of the right (i.e. wrong) scratches would relegate a coin to the 'pass' category, so attempting to calculate the appropriate % discount vs an unscratched specimen is merely an academic exercise that has no basis in collecting reality.
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: CoinRaritiesOnline
    For me, the presence of the right (i.e. wrong) scratches would relegate a coin to the 'pass' category, so attempting to calculate the appropriate % discount vs an unscratched specimen is merely an academic exercise that has no basis in collecting reality.


    I agree, but such an exercise would be very much in keeping with many of the comments I read on this Forum. I would like to see an image of the coin (token?).

    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • ctf_error_coinsctf_error_coins Posts: 15,433 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do not buy it.

    You will never regret not buying a damaged coin.

  • NewEnglandRaritiesNewEnglandRarities Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭✭
    My thoughts are....if it is a rare coin that is not found without issues, in theory it can possibly be forgivable.

    With that said, damaged rarities trend downwards not just now, but historically. As such, I would not be necessarily interested in a post-struck damaged example that was on par for the variety.

    Now, if it came to a variety where there was only 1-5 known, it may be a different story, but I would have to ask.......what is rare from you original thought.
    New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: ErrorsOnCoins
    Do not buy it.

    You will never regret not buying a damaged coin.



    That depends. Sometimes the desire for completeness trumps one's sense of aesthetics.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭✭
    Fiddy per-cent
    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist based in SoCal.
  • NewEnglandRaritiesNewEnglandRarities Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭✭
    I guess I never gave an answer...

    I would say anywhere from 20-40% based on graded vs. non graded because of the scratches.
    New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
  • scubafuelscubafuel Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The nicer the coin, the higher the discount needed. Just because the people collecting in that range can afford an unscratched one, and will always "pass" as John said.

    Scratches that can be called gouges on a BU coin? I think you will end up needing a 60-80% discount. And even then you will have to search for the right buyer.
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've seen many straight graded coins that look to have PMD but are supposedly contact abrasions, so I guess it would depend on the severity of the 'problem coin' scratches.



    The coin would be a pass for me but if you want a hypothetical answer from me:



    I'd say about 50 percent.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • ArizonaRareCoinsArizonaRareCoins Posts: 679 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2018 8:42PM
    Giving an answer without seeing the coin/picture of the coin is an exercise in futility. The location and severity of the 'damage' and the coins asthetics can not possibly be determined without inspection of the coin.

    PS: Do you agree that blitzdude is a great guy?
  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
    It depends... If you really want it I would want a 50 percent discount because if you ever try to sell it every dealer is going to bust your chops on it. ( Although as soon as a dealer buys it the scrathes are not that bad. lol)
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let's say it is an R5- with a minor, but plain, old, toned-over scratch on an otherwise stunning coin that graded problem-free at PCGS.



    Could you get past it? Would you move on? Would you pay up or expect a significant discount?

    Lance.



    imageimage
  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hard to say without seeing the coin in hand.

    I have no problem buying damaged coins. They're an easy sell.

    Especially better date damaged stuff. In/out a couple hours after the show starts.

    Everyone who does the "major" show circuit can think of two guys who deal mostly in nothing but damaged stuff, and traffic at their tales is usually 2-3 deep, and they have been prospering for years.

    To keep a coin for a collection might be a different deal, but really, if you lose sleep over a scratch on a coin, you should feel blessed because you have a really good life if that is all that's keeping you awake at night.
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,385 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Many,if not most,dealers would pass on the piece with damage."Too hard to sell" is what one hears when offering a damaged piece to a dealer.

    Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.

  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
    Again, define rare first. Many unique coins fit into your description that only scratch on the field. I have no idea how to price any but to use last auction price as reference. I can give you an R8 coins (two known) that one is problem free and the other one has field scratch.

    Problem free

    field scratch


    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
    I can also give you many other example that when coins are 4 known or 5 known. The scratch one will be priced differently.
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    An overall general rule I use on a coin that is damaged but still eye appealing enough to be collectable is to knock the grade down 2 levels. Unc=XF,AU=VF,etc. If it is a coin that has very little spread between grades like say an 03-O dollar then I would value it at roughly 1/2 the grade give or take depending on the look of the coin. Of course there are many exceptions in both directions to this rule.



    Why don't you post a pic of the coin? Might be fun to see how people feel.



    Ikeiwing, The toning and rarity of that half trumps the old scratch! That is one of the rare exceptions where I think it is worth full grade. Without the scratch it would be a coin you grade in dollars not details! image
  • BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There's some really great advice in this thread not just for me, but for anyone else considering a coin with issues image



    I've been glancing at this for a while and it's a "Wow" coin until you see the issue then it's a "What a Shame" coin imageimage



    I'm not posting a photo as I'm still pondering it image



    However if you all want to see it I'll set up a GoFundMe donation account under Medical for "reattaching my arm after I chewed it off the morning after" and will purchase it once the goal is meet image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll be happy to spring for your first bottle of Ripple. Since you're reluctant to post an image of the blushing bride-to-be, I assume that you're going to need a truckload.image
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Keep looking you'll sleep better.
  • unclebobunclebob Posts: 433 ✭✭✭
    For me the endless quest to pick varieties always tends to take me to the intersection of cleaned and damaged.

    I'll attempt to buy at a steep discount.

    It's with a mindset if/when I can improve my collection... flip and move on.
  • DaveWcoinsDaveWcoins Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭
    Broadstruck - is the damage on the front or the back? Some people might not mind putting a coin with a reverse problem in an album if it was really beautiful.



    Is it the first thing you see, or is it something you have to search for a little bit before finding the problem?



    Are the scratches old and under toning? Or are they fresh?



    Is it a larger coin or a smaller coin? A scratch on a half dime is much worse than similar scratches on a half dollar or a dollar.



    Dave Wnuck. Redbook contributor; long time PNG Member; listed on the PCGS Board of Experts. PM me with your email address to receive my e-newsletter, and visit DaveWcoins.com Find me on eBay at davewcoins
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, "it depends"



    I usually deduct something between 1 and 70 points for scratches, to arrive at a net grade I think fair for that particular coin.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For example, I take about 10 points off the "detail" grade to arrive at a "net" grade for this 1801 half dollar



    image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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