Order #20909611 / Submission #5160129... RESULTS

lordmarcovan

Just a small five-coin submission this time. Let's see how it goes.

The three ex-NGC coins were cracked out prior to submission. Some of you may be wondering why I'd do that at all. Mostly because I prefer my non-ancient coins in PCGS plastic, and I want the TrueView images.

Any predictions?

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Netherlands (Gelderland): "St. John" type gold gulden (florin) of Arnold van Egmond, ca. 1423-1472



Before: raw
Hopes & aspirations: any VF-AU straight grade; XF would be nice. But who knows what will happen.

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French Colonies: counterstamped copper sou, 1767



Before: raw
Hopes & aspirations: any VF straight grade; F15 would be OK. Even at F12 I wouldn't weep.

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German States (Hesse-Darmstadt): silver kreuzer, 1866



Before: NGC MS67
Hopes & aspirations: hoping for at least the same grade but could live with MS66.

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Canada: gold 100-dollars proof of Elizabeth II, Canadian Unity commemorative, 1978



Before: NGC PF67 UCAM
Hopes & aspirations: hoping for at least the same grade but could live with PR66 DCAM.

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Latvia: gold 5-lati proof, 2003



Before: NGC PF70 UCAM
Hopes & aspirations: while another 70 grade would be great, I won't hold my breath. PR69 DCAM would do.

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GMan

Nice coins. Good luck with the submission!

asheland

Good luck indeed!
Those new clear holders will look nice.

lordmarcovan

One month today, since the coins arrived at PCGS. Five weeks since they were shipped.

There have only been 23 working days since their arrival, though, if I counted correctly.

How long should I expect 'em to be? Surely the imaging adds to the turnaround. I don't know if the esoteric nature of the medieval gold piece will as well.

I'm trying to be patient, but am getting antsy and eager to see some results and new pictures!

bronzemat

Cool stuff, good luck!

lordmarcovan

Aha! RESULTS!

Hm. Mixed bag.

This wasn't the unqualified success of my last submission, where my favorite and "best" coin upgraded and the least important coin was the only no-grade.

This time around the most important one was the no-grade, and one I almost sold off was the winner. Just goes to show how my instincts aren't perfect. (But whose are, right?)

Oh, well. So it goes. Those are the breaks, sometimes. I've taken worse hits and can live with these results.

NiceCurrency

oh well, I still love Octopus man coin

SmEagle1795

Filed rims, schmiled rims (that really doesn't roll off the tongue)... The TrueViews of your Florin make it look absolutely wonderful - a perfect CircCam. This is a case where the "Details" designation is significantly secondary to the eye appeal.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>Filed rims, schmiled rims (that really doesn't roll off the tongue)... The TrueViews of your Florin make it look absolutely wonderful - a perfect CircCam. This is a case where the "Details" designation is significantly secondary to the eye appeal. >>

Thanks. Now that I have the TrueViews, the PCGS submission wasn't a total waste. I have a nice set of images anyway. I really like this coin and it is head and shoulders above any others I've seen, both in eye appeal and strike. St. John actually has facial features on this one, for starters, which is far from a given with these. Even considering the extra money now sunk in it at PCGS, it still compares favorably with the others I've seen, almost all of which are of much lower quality and higher price.

Maybe I should try it at NGC?

That would be richly ironic, considering three of the five coins in this submission were cracked from NGC holders to go to PCGS. Now the florin might make the opposite journey. Except in its case I will have good images of it before it ever gets ensnared in those ghastly white prongs.

Swampboy

That florin looks wonderful. Too bad about the genny designation.
"I feel your pain."
congrats on the sou. That's the grade I selected on your poll.
Great TVs all around.

EVillageProwler

I can see three areas on the rim of the florin where I think the filing may have been done. But, seldom does a rim filing affect the eye appeal of the coin (and, in this case, I think it does not affect the eye appeal).

I remember two years ago SB was having an auction of a big-time old-time named British gold collection. Old stuff, not Vickie or KGV sovereigns. Hugely expensive stuff. Many of the pieces were slabbed by NGC, but many also not. When I asked one of their representatives why that was the case, he told me that the un-slabbed pieces came back with details grades, like rim filed and other stuff that was commonly done (and not overly frowned upon) to those coins in British numismatic circles.

The "impaired" coins were still great coins.

Unless a coin is graded MS70, every coin has imperfections and yet still worthy of being cherished.

EVP

brg5658

PCGS thanks you for your money...

lordmarcovan

<< <i>PCGS thanks you for your money... >>





Yup. I'm a certified Kool-aid drinker these days, it would seem.

But my money is more about Phil Arnold's work and my near irrational distaste for white NGC prongs than it is PCGS itself.

If Phil or some similarly talented folk went to NGC and they changed to a clear, less obstructive slab insert, the services would be equal in my estimation.

So there. It's only watered down Kool-Aid I've been drinkin', see?

coffeyce

if you did what you wanted and tried forget about it. piss on negative comments.

My first submission I took 7 out of 14 hits. Learned some lessons but It wont be the last coin comes back cleaned im sure.

I even got one hit that im gonna re-submit and try the dice because I cant see where its cleaned. so they can possible get 27$ more for that coin.

chris

EVillageProwler

<< <i>

<< <i>PCGS thanks you for your money... >>





Yup. I'm a certified Kool-aid drinker these days, it would seem.

But my money is more about Phil Arnold's work and my near irrational distaste for white NGC prongs than it is PCGS itself.

If Phil or some similarly talented folk went to NGC and they changed to a clear, less obstructive slab insert, the services would be equal in my estimation.

So there. It's only watered down Kool-Aid I've been drinkin', see? >>



I much prefer NGC's grading service over PCGS' for world coins. I find PCGS' grading to be all over the place, especially when they think it is ok to grade 17th and 18th century Italian States coins similar to how they grade Liberty Seated US coinage.

But, for the lesser consideration of presentation, I must agree with LordM and say that I too detest those prongs when they show up in my images. Even no prongs, with the solid white plastic visible, that is a bit annoying. The thickness of the slab itself also dulls the flash of the coin a bit more than does PCGS' seemingly thinner plastic. Of course, I've discovered within the past 12 months that there's more than one way to annoy me from both services on the slab product issue. NGC's Kindle-sized tomb is ridiculous, as is their horizontal brick. The extra thick (but regular LxW) slab is a weapon that David could've used against Goliath. PCGS' tomb-sized slab is smaller than NGC's, so if the size bothers you (as it does me), then that is a plus. But PCGS' extra thick (but regular LxW) slab is just too thick for the NGC slab boxes. A coin that PCGS puts into one of their extra thick slabs could've fit into a regular NGC slab. But I already paid for the crossover to PCGS (and succeeded), so I don't want to waste any more money trying to cross back to NGC where the coin started!

If I had known about these extra thick slabs, I'd have factored that into my decision of what and if to try to cross.

In an ideal world, this is what I want: (primary) accurate grading and (secondary) the holder that presents my coins best.

EVP

Zohar

Agree with EVP. Also service wise, as a collector, NGC has been always helpful.

EVillageProwler

I also want to point out that since I'm learning to live with the prongs, I'm also using Doug's (from NGC) imaging.

This is one of his, which I put through PSE only to stitch, add the text box and resize (no other enhancements, including no tweaking of sharpness, contrast, color or lightness):

(As an aside, it took me about 1 hour to do this one image -- because I had never done the text box in PSE before and needed time to figure to out.)

EVillageProwler

Here's another:



One thing to note about these images is that the coins (Cromwell as well as Anne) are actually darker (with deeper/richer toning) in hand. If I were to tweak these, I'd darken them a bit. Just like in the early days when Phil would crank up the contrast too much, Doug is brightening these too much. I'm trying to give him feedback...

EVP

lordmarcovan

See? Take otherwise decent images of a coin in an NGC holder, mount them on a white background, and your coin will look like some bird or the Cookie Monster came along and took four regularly spaced little bites out of it. I simply cannot stand that.

For the record, I've never tried any NGC imaging options other than their $3/coin "Internet Imaged" option, which was the biggest waste of money ever. I could've done better with my flatbed scanner. In fact, it looked as though NGC had used a scanner themselves, and one not as good as mine. The images were horrible, horrible, horrible. Granted, I had opted for the least expensive imaging option, but the pictures were an embarrassment.

Good imaging and the option of a clear, nonobstructive insert, and NGC might get some of my business back.

marcmoish

Nice LM - the Kreuzer must be really special in hand -


Hey EVP - not gonna lie - I am drooling over your Cromwell sir! Go away bad boy!

lordmarcovan

<< <i>Nice LM - the Kreuzer must be really special in hand -


Hey EVP - not gonna lie - I am drooling over your Cromwell sir! Go away bad boy! >>

Yes, that Cromwell caused a similar Pavlovian response with me.

The Hesse-Darmstadt kreuzer is quite prooflike. Crazy thing is, it cost me less than a hundred bucks in the NGC plastic, before overseas shipping.

I guess there are some bargains to be had in the minors while all the big boys are chasing crowns and thalers.

LochNESS

This thread was a great read. I agree about Octopus Man coin, a great CircCam if I ever saw one. I'd be proud to have that in my box. Who cares about the genny thing. You got a great picture of it, plus it's safely stored in a holder for preservation. In the long run, worth your cost. That's my 2¢

lordmarcovan

Nessie- you're absolutely right. I've come around in my opinion of the "Octopus Man" florin/goldgulden. I love the coin, so why dump it just because it got a Genny no-grade holder? Maybe I'll try it at NGC.

This order was delivered today. Interestingly, the counterstamped French Colonies piece got a dual grade. F15 overall, but they also noted on the label that the counterstamp has "XF details". That's the first time I've seen the word "details" on a TPG label for a coin that wasn't a problem piece no-grade.