PCGS Samples - Generations 1-3 (Updated 4-27-19)

LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 15,727 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 27, 2019 1:53PM in U.S. Coin Forum
SAMPLES SAMPLES SAMPLES

So, if you buy into the PCGS generations I proposed in another thread PCGS Generations - an attempted update, it makes organizing PCGS samples easier. The scheme presented here is based on the PCGS generation labels as a foundation initially proposed by Conder101. After all, it only makes sense that samples were distributed at the same time as the generations listed above to promote them (well, there are some exceptions, but they will be noted in each section). It's real strength is in being able to find a sample quickly and efficiently and knowing whether you already have it or need it.

Cameron Kiefer (CK) was the pioneer who started organizing samples from many TPG's and it's a great asset that can still be found at Sampleslabs.com (referred to as SS from here on out). The weakness is that his generations relate more to when the sample was discovered by him rather than how they relate to each other by generations. Since it hasn't been updated for several years, it makes organizing more recent samples difficult. Other schemes involve the generation of the plastic holder (PCGS Museum of Holders) or organizing first by denomination (David Schwager).

Rarity This is somewhat subjective and is based on what I and a few friends have seen. Also, if not on SS (up until it was no longer updated), it's probably at least scarce!

There are special issues that defy simple classification by generation. The more recent European and Asian issues for example will be organized by their date of issue rather than by generation.



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Sample 1.0 This is reserved for a white label rattler sample, should one ever be discovered.




Sample 1.1 The .1 designates this as the second sample version in a Generation 1 holder. It's the classic rattler with the coin number, grade and serial number all "0". Dates are typically from 1959 to 1964. A earlier date, 1957, appeared on ebay 4-22-2014 and went for $525! image If you have a sample with a earlier date, a picture would be appreciated. Cameron noted these come in MS and proof format with the grade on the insert still "00" - I've chosen to lump them together rather than create another "generation" for this style. If a label calling the coin proof were to appear, now that would be different, as noted in the 1.4 section. A 1959 example described as proof went for $204 March 2015. The common ones typically bring around $200.




Sample 1.2 This generation is a revision from August 2016 after a discussion with Robert Paul and Mike Sherman. There is a date run of coins with coin number 5120 irrespective of the date or mm on the coin. It is theorized that this preceded Gen. 1.3, possibly because of incomplete development of the coin numbers for "modern" coins. This is analogous to the existence of Gen. 6 coins in great number for colonials and moderns but missing for coins with well established coin numbers. It's guess work at best and will be revised as needed if more accurate information comes available.




Sample 1.3 The basic rattler now introducing the correct coin number. The grade also appears above the word "Sample". These are seen from 1957 to 1964 - if you have an earlier one, a picture would be appreciated. Cameron noted these come in MS and proof format - I've chosen to lump them together rather than create another "generation" IF the label calls the coin MS. The 3rd coin has a PCGS Coin number for a 1957 Proof Roosevelt dime but is called MS on the label.



Sample 1.4 This one is worth calling out as different, a rare version of the Sample 1.2/1.3 style with PR instead of MS. Picture is borrowed from SampleSlabs.com. Fun coin number that corresponds with a Proof 1961 Franklin Half. Said by Cameron to be rare and he is right. Every once in a while you'll see a MS rattler sample with a proof coin number.




Sample 1.5 Now this one is really cool! Different label than 1.4 with "SAMPLE" shifted left, only the 4th known Franklin Half in a PCGS Sample holder and the only one in a rattler! Coin number is for a MS 1963-D dime.



Sample 1.6 This coin is not a sample but it is pretty cool. The coin used fits the time period (1987-D), is well outside the usual date range used and is reverse holdered. Nothing special about the coin so it's not a regular submission with a mechanical error label. This slab came from a former PCGS employee. Story from seller notes that PCGS was testing a new sealing machine and the employee pulled this coin out of his pocket and the machine was tested on this slab. A 1960-D in a similar slab, obverse forward, sold for $510 on Ebay 4-27-19.



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Sample 2.0 This is the basic generation 2 holder which carries on the same numbering scheme, coin number with nonsense serial number 7000023. The coin number is the same no matter the date! Most commonly seen with a 1964 P or D Roosevelt dime, 1956-D and 1957 the earliest I've seen. Forum member Echoes nabbed a 63-D off ebay in early 2018, the 1st one I've ever seen. It would be interesting to know if this serial number means something to PCGS?? Nothing comes up in the cert. verification with this number, unlike later samples. This is a fairly scarce sample.



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Sample 3.0 General Comments:

This is the Doily type that comes in 3-4 variations. This from CK: "Within a couple of years, a dealer got the bright idea to counterfeit the PCGS slab and make his own slabbed coins. It worked for a little bit, but he was soon caught. It brought to the attention of PCGS (and the other services) that better security had to be used on their slabs so that if someone tampered with a slab, it could easily be detected. The newer slab had an outer ring and a hologram on the back. The label was printed with thousands of small dots on a dot matrix printer. The “Doily label” slab as we call it today was born but did not last for long. Made from August of 1989 through January of 1990, few of these samples survive."



The variations of the samples will be described below. The only one not seen to date is variation 3.20.




Sample 3.0.1 This is the rare Doily sample that Oreville has posted so much about. It differs from other Doilies in that it doesn't have the white background behind the serial number and the corners look rounded, perhaps hand cut. "Sample" is centered under the grade rather than to the left. The Doily design forming the background on the insert is different than the following generation. The rarity is unknown but Oreville estimates the population to be 10 or so. The coin number and serial number are the same as for the generation 2.0 samples. One of these paired with an all 0's rattler sold for $700 in 2013 on eBay. eBay auction price realized for another on 3-6-16 was $609.




Here's a close up of the doily styles - you can see that the designs making up the background and PCGS letters are quite different.




Sample 3.0.25 The numbering of this sample follows the above generations scheme, general style 3 for Doily, similar to generation 2.5 with the coin number aligned with the left margin of the barcode. As in earlier generations, odd in that the coin number doesn't match the date. This one is somewhat unusual as it's also mislabeled, the coin 1961 in a 1961-D holder. A 1958-D with Ruffco sticker sold for $224 10-3-15 on ebay.




Sample 3.0.35 The numbering of this sample follows the above generations scheme in that this is a generation 3.0 sample, style 3.5 as it follows the generation 3.5 layout (PCGS at top, coin number left of barcode). Same coin number no matter the date. 1964-D Roosevelt dime most common. One of these sold for $127 June 2015, the prices closer to $200 by 2017.



3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5 3.5






Sample 3.5.1 This sample generation follows the general 3.5 generation style with PCGS 2 piece holder, numbers left of the bar code and PCGS at the top. It's not clear to me which of the samples in this generation came first. Help would be appreciated so these can be put in order! This one has both a nonsense coin number and serial number but the grade following the coin number is correct. Cameron when developing SampleSlabs.com mentions that this label w/o serations "shouldn't exist" but probably confused it with the generation 2.0 sample rather than recognizing it as following the generation 3.5 style. All 3.5's that I've seen (regular or sample) have this style label. Dates seen include 1961-D, 1962-P, 1963-D, 1964-D and a 1964-D dime with the label date 1961-D, a rare early sample error. Another error is the 1st picture above, 1961-P label, 1961-D coin.



It's interesting that there are no known generation 2.5 style samples. Given the style of numbering of the coin/serial number on this generation, it's possible that these could have actually been generation 2.5 samples. If you have first hand info of when these were issued, please let me know.





Sample 3.5.2 The only difference between this one and the 3.5.1 is the addition of the word "Dime" following sample. Have also seen a 1956-D dime with a 1956 label and a correctly labeled 1961-D dime.




"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).
I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17)
Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ

Comments

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 13,924 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cool thread! I'd love to find a doiley sample slab!
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,189 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for breaking them apart. I will bookmark the three now.
  • rickoricko Posts: 68,925 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am not a slab collector, but this was interesting and very well put together..... thanks...Cheers, RickO
  • Is there a reason why many of the early sample slabs contained Roosevelt dimes?
    "Man will never be perfect until he learns to create and destroy; he does know how to destroy, and that is half the battle.”
    - Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

    SOLVE ET COAGULA
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 10,881 ✭✭✭
    finally found this thread!!
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,079 ✭✭✭✭
    In response to the Liberty Nickels. There was a seller with a whole group that sold around the same time as the listed 1911.



    Here are the results (includes Ebay number and seller)



    1911 Liberty Nickel PGCS Collectable SAMPLE Slab

    ( 391165143112 ) rs10554501 US $102.50 5 bids



    1907 Liberty Nickel PGCS Collectable SAMPLE Slab

    ( 381286659939 ) rs10554501 US $113.06 6 bids



    1906 Liberty Nickel PGCS Collectable SAMPLE Slab

    ( 391165140164 ) rs10554501 US $107.50 5 bids



    1901 Liberty Nickel PGCS Collectable SAMPLE Slab

    ( 381286657697 ) rs10554501 US $102.50 5 bids



    1899 Liberty Nickel PGCS Collectable SAMPLE Slab

    ( 391165137860 ) rs10554501 US $103.50 6 bids



    1911 LIBERTY HEAD NICKEL ~ VERY GOOD ~ PCGS SAMPLE SLAB

    ( 191587515238 ) simsion11566 US $213.50 9 bids

    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053

    imageimage
  • metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭
    Thank you for your efforts!
    email: [email protected]

    100% Positive BST transactions
  • woogloutwooglout Posts: 196 ✭✭✭
    Originally posted by: MisterSmithGuesser

    Is there a reason why many of the early sample slabs contained Roosevelt dimes?




    I admit I know very little about sample slabs but I do find this thread quite entertaining and informative.



    Considering the coins selected- Perhaps our hosts wanted not TOO modern a coin, but not too old either, while still being silver. And the cheapest way to do that is crack open some BU rolls of '64 Roosies? Sample collectors could chime in here if I'm way off.
  • bob48bob48 Posts: 337 ✭✭
    Very nicely done - like the new additions! Hope to find some to have them added here.

    Thanks for the info.

    I use your reference here to supplement my researching of any type of PCGS Sample. Very well detailed.

    As long as I have been collecting samples some of the minute differences I have never noticed, until now.

    I do look at the spacing and style of lettering now as close as ever. Some samples such as the 2005 Bison Nickel,

    I never knew there was so many different styles and I am looking to put this set together. Plus the nickels are sometimes put in with

    Jefferson portrait on the slab obverse which is inconsistent with the majority of the Bison nickel samples.

    Bob

    *
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 15,727 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bob:



    Ssshhhhh - this is a stealth project! image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).
    I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17)
    Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 8,902 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a lot of work...very nice job.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 10,881 ✭✭✭
    I think I just made an interesting observation!!



    Look at all the post rattler early OGH number 4!!



    They all had very low cross bars on the number 4 up to the bottom white strip doily label.



    THen starting with the rare doily label missing the bottom white strip had much more conventional number 4 with the cross bar much closer to the middle of the height of the number 4.



    This gives additional support to the theory that the doily sample slab without the bottom white strip was made by PCGS as a sample slab at the end of the doily label era but was never put into general production.







    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 8,186 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice work!
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • bob48bob48 Posts: 337 ✭✭
    This sample project seems to be taking off.
    Bob

    *
  • AuroraBorealisAuroraBorealis Posts: 3,574 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very cool!!!!! Well done!

    ABimage
  • SNMANSNMAN Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭
    image

    thank you
    Positive Transactions with: Doily Dude (Drunner) Segoja, Dragon, fivecents, Connecticoin, WTCG, gsa1fan, abitofthisabitofthat; commoncents05;Broadstruck;
    Wondercoin; ModernCoinMart; johnperk747; Stockford; Metalsman
    tradedollarnut; tennesseebanker; mirabela; WinPitcher; a039;
    Meltdown; halfnut; notlogical; ibzman350; astrorat; cohodk
    Bochiman; and ......more
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 15,727 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Updated with new sample discovery, Gen. 4.13. :+1:

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).
    I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17)
    Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ
  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not my field of interest, yet, but thanks for sharing the results of your hard work, I appreciate it :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 8,700 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2017 7:22AM

    Great (sarc)...now I need to find the other Doily Sample (rounded corner label, non gear sprocket, insert)

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_



    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11...



    PCGS DANSCO 7070 Modified Set
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/142105
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 15,727 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Updated images secondary to the Photobucket fiasco!

    Good opportunity to add a few images and revise the verbiage. ;)

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).
    I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17)
    Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 15,727 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you look closely, there is "ribbing" in the paper so not a white rattler. Still a cool sample and one that should sell strongly!

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).
    I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17)
    Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ
  • AzurescensAzurescens Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do the 1.3's always have sample underneath the grade?

    Is it the 1.3's that have a certification number on the front, no PCGS reverse, and 4 pins holding it together?

    Never stop someone from singing, for there is joy in their heart.

  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 15,727 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If it didn't have Sample under the grade, it would be given another number.

    See the pics at the top of the thread for several 1.3's.

    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).
    I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17)
    Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ
  • ECHOESECHOES Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ebay finds, both BIN's

    ~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~
    POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
    Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
  • AzurescensAzurescens Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lakesammman said:

    See the pics at the top of the thread for several 1.3's.

    They didn't load on my phone for some reason. Sorry about that.

    They definitely don't load when this link is pulled from Google.

    Never stop someone from singing, for there is joy in their heart.

  • ECHOESECHOES Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Azurescens said:

    @Lakesammman said:

    See the pics at the top of the thread for several 1.3's.

    They didn't load on my phone for some reason. Sorry about that.

    They definitely don't load when this link is pulled from Google.

    1.3

    ~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~
    POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
    Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
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