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My Baltimore show report
EVillageProwler
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My wife came with me today. We left early-ish in the morning, and arrived at the show noon-ish. My wife went shopping and to the aquarium at Inner Harbor. I made a beeline to a US dealer to drop off my coat and to briefly chat up some folks. Then, on to Atlas Numismatics where I had pre-arranged with them to bring some specific items from their inventory.
OMG, James has some nice stuff. Being on a beer budget with champagne taste is maddeningly painful. I finally settled on my first choice at my expected price but unwilling to blow my budget at the first dealer. Any secondary choices would have to wait to see if time, budget and other circumstances allow.
[Tuscany 5 Paoli in 64]
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I go next to Tom Cederlind's table to chat up Michael and to see if he has any Anglo-Saxon stuff for me. He has a small spread, and I buy a nice scarce early sceatta in near EF grade. He lets me pay a fixed amount each month until I'm all paid off, so it doesn't feel so painful. I'm also eyeing a hammer Tudor coin at that table, but so far haven't executed on that yet.
I go next to CRO, where he didn't recognize me at first. I forgive him. He shows me some nice stuff, but nothing really for me until his last item which is pending approval from my wife. We'll go to see CRO on Saturday to decide on that coin.
While at CRO, liteside member Oreville stops by but didn't recognize me at first. So I chastize him a bit, then his recollection kicked in.
I futz around some more, chatting up several other dealers. Evan Gale (APRCI) has a superb 1/2 Ducato late 1700's Netherlands piece in PCGS 67 with amazing color.
I then made arrangements with friends for dinner, which should happen soon.
EVP
OMG, James has some nice stuff. Being on a beer budget with champagne taste is maddeningly painful. I finally settled on my first choice at my expected price but unwilling to blow my budget at the first dealer. Any secondary choices would have to wait to see if time, budget and other circumstances allow.
[Tuscany 5 Paoli in 64]
I go next to Tom Cederlind's table to chat up Michael and to see if he has any Anglo-Saxon stuff for me. He has a small spread, and I buy a nice scarce early sceatta in near EF grade. He lets me pay a fixed amount each month until I'm all paid off, so it doesn't feel so painful. I'm also eyeing a hammer Tudor coin at that table, but so far haven't executed on that yet.
I go next to CRO, where he didn't recognize me at first. I forgive him. He shows me some nice stuff, but nothing really for me until his last item which is pending approval from my wife. We'll go to see CRO on Saturday to decide on that coin.
While at CRO, liteside member Oreville stops by but didn't recognize me at first. So I chastize him a bit, then his recollection kicked in.
I futz around some more, chatting up several other dealers. Evan Gale (APRCI) has a superb 1/2 Ducato late 1700's Netherlands piece in PCGS 67 with amazing color.
I then made arrangements with friends for dinner, which should happen soon.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
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Hopefully I will make an appearance tomorrow
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I remember seeing that Dutch MS-67 piece. Crazy awesome look to it.
Enjoy.
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Ancient Custom Set
Sounds like a good show, nice coin you got there.
<< <i>Why didn't anyone recognize you?
Mister Cellophane
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Here's my update from Saturday morning:
Breakfast with my wife and a close friend who is a liteside collector finished around 9:20am. (I declined a brunch invitation with two Trade Dollar specialists, thinking that my wife would be bored to tears.)
I eventually make my way to the convention center with my wife around 10:20am and I immediately stopped by Julian's table to apologize for not warmly shaking his hand Friday. It turns out he has some nice darkside stuff now, NGC holders and raw, but none were for me. For GB collectors, he has a bunch of Commonwealth and Cromwell silvers in VF to AU grades as well as talers and the usual suspects.
I then go back to CRO to show my wife that coin. She honestly didn't like the coin; I was already on the fence about the coin, so I politely thanked John and handed him the coin. My wife had wanted to see some Chinese stuff, so I try to show her some. After five minutes, she asks me how much time we have before we need to go back to the hotel to check out. My first wife refused to even step into the convention center. This wife actually came in, albiet only briefly. Yes, she went shopping instead.
I then went back to Atlas hoping they'd still be around, but alas their booth was empty. No worries - because I know how to reach him if I decide to execute on something else. I then went back to Tom Cederlind's table and told Michael that I won't execute on that Tudor piece because I just can't decide if I should do it, and that piece in that condition isn't actually a must-have. (It's just a nice-to-have-but-only-if-all-else-fits.)
BTW, there's another superb Tudor piece floating around that I really want, but is substantially more expensive than the piece I passed on today. I may have to pass on both for now.
Side note: this hobby of ours is a marathon, not a sprint. I must always remind myself of this. With enough patience, you will see the nice coins that got away again, and oftentimes available at bargain prices compared to the previous got-away price.
With time left, and my wife still shopping, I wander around. I eventually make my way to a dealer from whom I will likely never buy anything. He's been the object of my ire before, but I prefer to keep the details vague because I really don't want to publicly slam anyone. Hope you understand.
Anyway, this unnamed dealer has an extensive inventory including some stuff that caught my eye. I took mental note of them, then moved on.
In the end, both my wife and I bought nothing Saturday.
The most interesting comments I heard at the show were:
1. The pricier (>= $3k) material wasn't selling, but collector material was moving
2. Sludge was hot
3. How can low prices for precious metals affect liquidity for collectible material?!?
4. An impaired 1792 H10c couldn't even move at its basal value, which suggests that (1) overrides (2)
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
Uh, you may want to be more precise with the Yiddish.
Maybe you were thinknig of "futz?"
I eventually make my way to a dealer from whom I will likely never buy anything. He's been the object of my ire before, but I prefer to keep the details vague because I really don't want to publicly slam anyone.
I can think of one such dealer. Zohar knows about whom I write. A candidate for worst person on the planet, but when I checked the dealer list, I did not see his name.
DPOTD
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
not always true - truly case by case but worthy to mention as overall that thinking is correct to some extent. I passed on a key date 15 yrs ago and had to wait lietrally 10 years to aquire a lower grade. Hence I say case by case - so bottom line if you have the bucks to chase it grab it otherwise totally agreed and thats life.
Nice report - nice piece you got too.
lol on putz yes, harasha is correct I believe you meant FUTZ , and you can PM for translation of PUTZ
edted to add: actually MAD MARTY would know, and that's a HINT!!
There is a story that I like to tell (and that I've told before):
A few years ago, I bemoaned to ColonelJessup (a liteside dealer) about losing out on a coin. I don't recall the coin, but I lost because someone wealthier than I just had to have it more than I did. So, CJ told me a story about Tony Terranova (a liteside dealer specialist in colonials, coppers and probably many other areas) who decades ago got into a furious losing bidding war over a really important coin. Terranova and that other guy almost literally beat each other over their heads with their bidder paddles. Fast forward a couple of decades, and that other guy is selling because he is retiring. Tony bids and wins - but for far less than what that coin went for previously. Happy ending for Tony. End of story.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>Fast forward a couple of decades, and that other guy is selling because he is retiring. Tony bids and wins - but for far less than what that coin went for previously. Happy ending for Tony. End of story. >>
Not so much as he didn't own it for decades.
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
<< <i>
<< <i>Fast forward a couple of decades, and that other guy is selling because he is retiring. Tony bids and wins - but for far less than what that coin went for previously. Happy ending for Tony. End of story. >>
Not so much as he didn't own it for decades. >>
I believe that Tony has now owned that coin for decades, so maybe he's past the initial disappointment. Note: I'm hearing this story second-hand.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I'm very familiar with Baltimore, been many times. The aquarium and harbor area is actually really nice IMO. And there are some amazing restaurants in Little Italy. In fact, I like B'more's little italy better than NYC's to be quite honest.
If you have a chance - if you haven't already left yet? - you MUST visit Vaccaro's Pastry shoppe. They have the best cannoli on the planet and ginormous eclair. They also have seating inside if you don't feel up for a stroll.
Amat Colligendo Focum
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EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I'll be there in a few weeks. It'll be quite cold but I'll get some on your behalf
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
If you are buying champagne on a beer budget then I must be buying beer on a tap water budget.
As far as crappy dealers, well I may not have a ton of money now, but as I shake off the financial burden of my ex wife and a few decades of addictions that are not coins, I find more and more money in my budget for my collection. As I also practice more patience in purchasing, I also add more expensive coins to my want lists with belief that they are doable soon. I look forward to being able to purchase those more expensive pieces from anyone else than the jerks of the dealer world.
One thing I will recommend against: borrowing to pay for average coins. Let's say you need to borrow (or use a long-term payment plan) for an $1000 coin. If it is a very nice looking coin, with superb eye appeal, then it may be fine. If it is just a modest widget, then do not do it. The premise is that OMG coins have a much better chance of appreciating in value, and faster too. Whereas widgets generally stagnate in pricing. So, why pay more due to the loan or payment when it's not worth doing so?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
<< <i>Getting into debt for coins? I wouldn't. >>
Generally, I wouldn't either. But I don't make blanket statements. I know a lot of people who finance payments for the "big boy" coins because they know that in the end it is probably at worst a break-even affair.
The Tuscany coin from this recent Baltimore show was paid fully by personal check. The dealer does offer a 4-part payment plan, but would've given me less off the list price. The dealer for the Anglo-Saxon sceatta generally charges full retail prices too, but offers me a very long-term payment plan. (We negotiate the price first, then decide on payment.)
In both cases, I take the best deal I can get for the best coins I can afford.
But for each NYINC show (or CICF show), I take great pains to clear my debt burden so I can be able to make a play on some "big boy" coins. At the Newman sale, I had enough to make a play for the Londonia penny. (Sadly, I wasn't even the immediate under-bidder -- but I was in it until the last 30 seconds or so , which, btw, seemed to have lasted an eternity!)
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Getting into debt for coins? I wouldn't.
In most cases, even a conservative collector shouldn't hesitate to take on short term debt for the right coins. It's long term debt that can be a problem.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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Ancient Custom Set
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Getting into debt for coins? I wouldn't. >>
+1
I find it hard to justify incurring debt for the hobby. Too many things have to come first.
Amat Colligendo Focum
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absolutely agree - rare pcs or dreck widgets..makes no difference - one never knows where, and how the market will react at any given time at a later date. That goes for ones finances too. Hence, it makes no diff short or long term imho.
<< <i>Getting into debt for coins? I wouldn't. >>
I completely agree. I only play with cash in hand.
EVP - great looking 5 Paoli. I saw this on the Atlas website, and thought about it. But, my priorities are elsewhere at the moment, so I let it pass. Enjoy!
My Type Set
absolutely agree - rare pcs or dreck widgets..makes no difference - one never knows where, and how the market will react at any given time at a later date. That goes for ones finances too. Hence, it makes no diff short or long term imho.
I understand not wanting to take that sort of risk. Then again, it doesn't make sense to refuse to borrow - let's say, for example, 5K for three months, to purchase a dream coin - and at the same time, take on six figures in long term debt to purchase a house. Granted, not everyone will borrow money to buy a house, but so many of us do.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>Getting into debt for coins? I wouldn't.
In most cases, even a conservative collector shouldn't hesitate to take on short term debt for the right coins. It's long term debt that can be a problem. >>
I actually did this recently for a fairly expensive liteside coin. Borrowed money in mid October against stocks in my account for about 3 weeks until the market recovered. The coin I bought I figured I may not see one of those come again for a long time. Worked out pretty well.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
People don't have to own their own homes. They can rent.
And FWIW, I'd rather sell my house than my coin collection.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I think there are critical differences between the two camps of respondents.
In one camp are the family guys who are really just collectors. And they have children and wives who have differing perspectives on our hobbies. Spending significant "disposable" income on a hobby is a big deal, because that money can also be used for vacations, bigger house, new kitchen, etc. Taking a short-term loan will be a very trying conversation. Besides, family really should come before a coin.
Then there are those who are single, or at least without children. Or, professional coin people. The folks in the second camp have much different home pressures.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
I wouldn't want to spend beyond my last dollar on a medical procedure that could save my life, but I'd do it. I don't see why it should be any different for coins.
Seriously, for the right coin at the right price, and for a minimal amount of debt for a minimal amount of time, I think most of us would take the leap and buy the coin. And I think that 90% of the people that say otherwise just aren't thinking hard enough.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I am curious how many would enter any form of debt (i.e. taking out a loan to buy a coin, not simply paying with a credit card as a means of payment). Key is to draft the questions properly:
Perhaps:
"For the right coin, would you consider taking on debt (i.e. spend money you do not have) in the following form -
1) Layaway plan to dealer
2) Formal loan/charge to credit card
3) Sell a body organ to finance purchase
4) I would never enter into any sort of debt to purchase a coin, I only utilize my disposable income
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
Sounds like we're agreed already. Because if I drafted the question as "For a coin that you desperately want, at an incredibly cheap price, would you borrow a trivial amount of money for 48 hours if that was the only way to make the deal work?", you would say I didn't draft the question fairly, and I would say "I rest my case".
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I call debt taking other people's money to pay for a coin, entering into debt, paying off from future income.
Taler Custom Set
Ancient Custom Set
<< <i>It may be an excellent forum poll.
I am curious how many would enter any form of debt (i.e. taking out a loan to buy a coin, not simply paying with a credit card as a means of payment). Key is to draft the questions properly:
Perhaps:
"For the right coin, would you consider taking on debt (i.e. spend money you do not have) in the following form -
1) Layaway plan to dealer
2) Formal loan/charge to credit card
3) Sell a body organ to finance purchase
4) I would never enter into any sort of debt to purchase a coin, I only utilize my disposable income >>
Do I get to pick which body organ?
And what if that future income is a dividend or interest check that you know you'll be receiving within the month, and that you don't need for any other purpose?
We could play around with all sorts of variations on this. Better to just keep an open mind and a level head.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
1) Layaway plan to dealer
2) Formal loan/charge to credit card
3) Sell a body organ to finance purchase
4) I would never enter into any sort of debt to purchase a coin, I only utilize my disposable income >>
Do I get to pick which body organ?
Not really critical to pick which body organ, since Zohar did not specify that the body organ had to be your own.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
We have one life and it may be short. . .
<< <i>People take home mortgages because people need a place to live.
People don't have to own their own homes. They can rent. … >>
Last time I checked, renting is still way more expensive than buying. Gotta look at the big picture. Rent for twenty years, and after twenty years you have nothing to show for it. Pay a mortgage for twenty years, you are much better off (financially). There are definitely some advantages to renting but cost/money isn't one of them.
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<< <i>EVP - I disagree. The fundamental question is whether you want to spend beyond your last dollar on coins - I was the same in my approach when I was single and happy
Hmmmm, this is the right way to look at it I guess.
And if you ever decide to do the poll, I predict that the vast majority won't enter in debt for a coin.
But I'm with Andy on this. I wouldn't mind getting in debt if I had indeed such a "dream coin" in mind. We only live once, and I'm sure that I'd manage to cover the debt. Trouble is I don't have a dream coin to test this in practice. Quite the opposite actually. The more I stay in the hobby, the more I demystify coins.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
I'm still trying to get my first dream big boy coin.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com