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More about eBay, CCW and T & S

The very respected Coin World has obviously been tipped off about the decimation of trust & Safety on eBay:

http://www.coinworld.com/insights/ebay-changes-for-counterfeit-coin-reporting-rankles-collectors.html

One of eBay's staff has been trotted out to utter lies and general BS but it looks like at least one of the old EMR's has responded to the article and has attempted to counter the lies.

As we have discussed counterfeits in this section of CU, I hope the mods will forgive me for putting this new thread here.

Comments

  • lostincoinslostincoins Posts: 4,278
    Everyone who is concerned with this issue should leave an anonymous comment as they are allowing it.
  • mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 5,526 ✭✭✭
    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for the link. Appropriate comment will be posted on CW
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Everyone who is concerned with this issue should leave an anonymous comment as they are allowing it. >>



    Why anonymous?
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Everyone who is concerned with this issue should leave an anonymous comment as they are allowing it. >>



    Why anonymous? >>




    image it's OK to have a honest opinion on any subject in America isn't it?
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I posted and signed my name "bob"
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's what everyone needs to do

    Step 1) find an obviously fake coin on ebay
    Step 2) find an obviously replica bullion or marked copy item on ebay. Make sure the description &/or pictures make it clear it is a copy.
    Step 3) report both

    step 4) post both item numbers to the CW article and say they have just been reported. Perhaps mention you used to help get things nuked using the ccw link
    step 5) wait until they close. See if they get removed.
    ====== if not removed post again after positive feedback has been left with the seller & re-mention the item numbers



    The proof will be in the pudding


    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Reported an obviously fake 1885 CC and posted the details to the article comments...
  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    keep posting item #s to CW

    the more ebay fails, the better the point will be made

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • mbogomanmbogoman Posts: 5,111 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>keep posting item #s to CW

    the more ebay fails, the better the point will be made >>



    I've stuck 3 listings up there - 2 anon and one signed with my CU handle. There are a few more also posted by other anons, but by no means are they being swamped.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I imagine this is the 1875 CC trade in the CW comments

    no item number mentioned

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,104 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>keep posting item #s to CW

    the more ebay fails, the better the point will be made >>



    I've stuck 3 listings up there - 2 anon and one signed with my CU handle. There are a few more also posted by other anons, but by no means are they being swamped. >>



    Yup...only 25 responses so far....was 28. Not overwhelming by any means.
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • I am taking the liberty of commenting here, to raise this thread to the top, as there are many more posts on the Coin World article, including one that talks about eBay's and Lithium's attempts to throttle the Coin Forgery eBay discussion group under the guise of "moderation".
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    of course they are moderating them.

    the people who are in charge of deciding to keep CCW or not -- they chose not -- apparently do not know how to determine fakes or find people they trust to determine what are fakes. So, these same people are now protecting the ebay forums from the same kind of hyper-inflated and hyper-feared minor problems they feared when closing the CCW.


    in short, the morons think both the closing of the CCW and the moderation of the coin forgery group are moves protecting the users from people who don't truly know what they are doing.



    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions

  • It says in the article

    " The Coin Community Watch Group was created in mid-2000 as a joint effort between the American Numismatic Association and eBay in an effort to thwart auction fraud.

    Jake Sherlock, ANA marketing and communications director, said the association dropped out of the initiative several years ago. "

    WHY?

    Someone needs to police eBay and not eBay themselves. They have all these rules and polices that sellers have to follow to be
    able to list coins yet those are forever being broken and at no consequence to them. Then you have sellers that do right and they
    get these crappy bidders that eBay does nothing to.




  • BStrauss3BStrauss3 Posts: 3,107 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As a guess? ANA figured out eBay was using them to cover eBay's unwillingness to monitor the cesspit and dropped out rather than having their good name dragged through the swill...
    -----Burton
    ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>As a guess? ANA figured out eBay was using them to cover eBay's unwillingness to monitor the cesspit and dropped out rather than having their good name dragged through the swill... >>



    i'd be shocked if there wasn't at least some truth to it.
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • Here is a nasty counterfeit from a Californian counterfeiting ring that Judith and CCW were keeping under control:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1884-S-Morgan-Dollar-PCGS-MS-62-/281419481970

    The sound you are listening to now is Donahoe licking his lips at the prospect of his next bonus, now that he has destroyed Trust & Safety.
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,470 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i> “eBay remains committed to providing a safe, secure online marketplace for the sale of coins and currency,” >>


    Makes me think:


    A game of numbers.

    Say it enough and a certain percentage of folks are going to believe you.
    Unfortunately, eBay has NEVER had any interest in exploiting numismatics!
    They have NEVER had access to an expert even though many have offered!

    "Streamlining" the "EMR" has actually opened the door to fraudsters that will post 1 or 3 day listing which, in its "streamlined state", will have been over for a week or more before a report ever crosses someone's desk.


    And what the hell is a " general manager of emerging verticals" if not a top heavy, bloated level of management that has absolutely no idea of what's really happening?

    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    if a seller of a plastic good is truly and fully 100% vertically integrated, they'd drill the oil to make the plastic and do all else including retailing it to consumers.

    However that is an unrealistic concept. a more realistic version would be they buy the plastic pellets, created the product, distribute and retail them to consumers.


    Howevr, again, a company can be more vertically integrated if they combine more than one step of the end to end in their business plan.


    part of vertical integration at ebay is helping do international shipping. Another obvious one is PayPal - processing the transactions


    outside of small things like this, I'm not sure how a non-retailer sales site like ebay that merely facilitates transactions can vertically integrate any other major pieces of the food chain without changing their business plan.


    On the other hand, at least they did not call the position an "evangelist" position. image


    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I start new threads about fakes on their own forum and include the links to the listing, which is a violation of Ebay policy. I don't give a F about their policy, and will flood their forums with fakes till they kick me out! I collect Morgans, I spend my hard earned money to collect them. I don't appreciate people being burned everyday 7 days a week, leaving the hobby with a bad taste in their mouth, not good for any of us!

    EDIT:
    Just received this from Ebay, seems they can't zap a fake listing but they sure can tell me about policy with the quickness. Creating threads about counterfeits on their forum and tipping off others is NOT popular with Ebay.

    I’m sorry to let you know that your recent post, found here, has been edited because it violates the Usage Policy.

    Please know that while eBay permits users to discuss listings on the boards, you may not link to listings, post item numbers or name buyers/sellers in an attempt to bring attention to that member or listing. Instead, you may report the member or listing to eBay.

    Also please note if you are taking images from the auction listing and posting those on the boards, that is also a violation as it's not allowed to use/post another users images without their permission.

    Not allowed: Posting information about member or listing violations
    Not allowed: Using another eBay member's pictures or text without the other member's express permission.

    Please take a moment to review the Discussion Boards Usage Policy and Community Content Policy to avoid violating policies in the future.

    Thanks for your contribution, and for your help in keeping the community a friendly, productive environment for all members.

    Crimson
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • Crimson Leopard is the Lithium moderator who takes pleasure in interfering on Coin Forgery eBay, a closed discussion group that had an agreed charter with eBay, that appears to have been flushed down the toilet with most of Trust and Safety. He also appears to act on the instructions of "mari_daw" who describes herself as an eBay employee and yes, you guessed it, is also interfering in posts on Coin Forgery eBay.

    eBay is now emasculating the discussion group and will undoubtedly find an excuse to close it soon.


  • << <i>Instead, you may report the member or listing to eBay. >>



    ... who will ignore your report, whether you're an EMR or just a concerned member, because if actioned, it will prevent a fraud that would otherwise help to line the pockets of shareholders and senior staff.


  • << <i>And what the hell is a " general manager of emerging verticals" if not a top heavy, bloated level of management that has absolutely no idea of what's really happening? >>



    Isn't there a saying that goes "sh*t always rises to the top?" It seems to me that some is already there but in this case, one is on the way!
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I replied to him in a pm and told him to do the right thing regarding these two listings. Is it time to go after Ebay legally, I mean go after them locked and loaded. I have plenty of ammo, images, prices, screen shots of reports, etc. I'm talking thousands of images, dates, times, prices, etc.

    This one ends in a couple hours, what more do you need?
    image

    This one ends in 6 days, again what more do you need to see?
    image
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • Anyone wishing to report the many counterfeits now ignored by eBay can report here:

    http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/count-contre/nacb-bnlcc-eng.htm

    or here:

    http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
  • This thread is a real eye opener.
    I hadn't realized how far ebay had gone down the sewer.
    Many thanks.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mere months ago we could bring down almost all fakes regularly in about a day

    Now, only 5-10% are removed.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This thread is a real eye opener.
    I hadn't realized how far ebay had gone down the sewer.
    Many thanks. >>


    Many people forget easily or never become aware because eBay does sell many other items (DVDs, clothing, etc) without issue. However in the coin arena ... yah it's pretty horribly unbelievable. Part of me is tired of seeing the eBay threads but the rest of me knows it still isn't being shouted loud enough. Tell your friends, tell your non-forum friends. Tell dealers at shows when they mention the word "eBay" ...
    ANA LM • WBCC 429

    Amat Colligendo Focum

    Top 10FOR SALE

    image
  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>This thread is a real eye opener.
    I hadn't realized how far ebay had gone down the sewer.
    Many thanks. >>


    Many people forget easily or never become aware because eBay does sell many other items (DVDs, clothing, etc) without issue. However in the coin arena ... yah it's pretty horribly unbelievable. Part of me is tired of seeing the eBay threads but the rest of me knows it still isn't being shouted loud enough. Tell your friends, tell your non-forum friends. Tell dealers at shows when they mention the word "eBay" ... >>



    ...good advice...but why in the hell would a dealer at a show "mention the word eBay?" image

    I buy 95% of my coins from eBay...although none are true rarities and half are already slabbed by our host...not one single problem yet,
    Erik
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
    Feepay decided that the minuscule amount of money spent on policing wasn't worth it. They are cost shifting the counterfeit of intellectual property to the VeRO program. It will be up to the tens of thousands of individual rights holders to police feepay for free. This is now US Treasury, PCGS, NGC, Coach, Fendi, etc. problem.

    Once feepay has registered tens of thousands of rights holders, they'll be approached to sell directly thus eliminating us peons. Feepay can raise fees as the seller's gross margins expand through the direct sales.

  • I had already received a counterfeit DVD box set on Ebay a few years ago so I already stopped shopping for music & video there.
    Once people realize it's a den of thieves nobody bothers going there, iron clad buyer protection or not.
    Crank up the 4x ebay bucks to cover up your failing business model, I guess.
    Works till it don't.
  • It has been suggested that 5-10% of reports are acted upon but I suspect that the bigger frauds that net eBay the highest fees are ignored, it's called aiding and abetting.

    Coins and stamps have been badly affected by the destruction of T & S but there were at least 90 EMR's at one time, covering lots of other areas such as bags, baseball cards, etc. Some of these EMR's remain but in name only, because eBay has instructed its T & S staff to treat a report from an EMR in exactly the same way as they would treat any other TPR, ignore it!

    Even counterfeit Microsoft software is now available from Chinese sellers unhindered by T & S.

    The message is clear, only buy what you truly know and understand and avoid everything else.
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    Their response was slow when notified to a listing that redirected people to a fake log in page.
    They need to get more serious about fakes and security.


    "The US firm was alerted to the hack on Wednesday night but removed the listings only after a follow-up call from the BBC more than 12 hours later."

    article
    Ed
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's also the responsibility of our government to help stop this nonsense especially since most of it comes from overseas. Unfortunately they're more asleep
    at the wheel than eBay or anyone else.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

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