Would more PCGS slabbed So-Called Dollars increase interest in them?

Zoins

A number of people have mentioned that interest in So-Called Dollars (SCDs) has been declining.

One thing I've observed is that many SCDs are very rare, either absolutely rare or conditionally rare so I'm guessing many people aren't even aware of what nice ones may look like.

So the question is if more people were more aware of the nice SCDs, would there be more interest and demand?

And following on that, if more nice SCDs were slabbed by PCGS with TrueView and CoinFacts photos as well as entries in PCGSCoinFacts.com, would that spread information on nice SCDs wider and generate more interest?

BillJones

It would nice if we all knew what an "SCD" was. I hate acronyms when you do't what they stand for.

brg5658

<< <i>It would nice if we all knew what an "SCD" was. I hate acronyms when you do't what they stand for. >>



SCD = So-called dollars

BillJones

Some exonumia dealers, who have been in the business for a long time, were saying that many so-called dollars were overpriced a couple of years ago. Maybe the market correction in upon us.

Zoins

It's recently been mentioned that the last SCD guide included a price guide that may have helped pump up prices during that period.

I've been wondering if SCDs experienced the same pump and dump that CCHDs (classic commem half dollars) experienced a while back and have never recovered from.

mozin

<< <i>It would nice if we all knew what an "SCD" was. I hate acronyms when you do't what they stand for. >>



I agree. Now that I know what SCDs means, I will not bother to open the thread.

Zoins

<< <i>

<< <i>It would nice if we all knew what an "SCD" was. I hate acronyms when you do't what they stand for. >>



I agree. Now that I know what SCDs means, I will not bother to open the thread. >>



But do you both also hate acronyms when you do understand what they stand for?

If you only hate acronyms that you don't understand, how do people know which ones you do and don't understand?

coinsarefun

I'm going to give my best under-educated guess


There have been large amounts of tokens that have been auctioned the last several years,
including hard times tokens, civil war tokens, Patriotic's and more. not to mention so many other
large coin collections coming to market. Perhaps the market can absorb only so much and the scd along with
commems are suffering?

MrEureka

Would more PCGS slabbed SCDs increase interest in SCDs?

I would think so, but not appreciably so.

FWIW, and with the caveat that I am not an expert on the series, my take on SCD's is that some are really cool and some are completely uninteresting. And I think the uninteresting stuff holds the entire series back. If I were looking to promote the SCD market, I'd consider writing a "Top 100 SCDs" book, or something along those lines. Worked for VAMs, didn't it?

Zoins

<< <i>Would more PCGS slabbed SCDs increase interest in SCDs?

I would think so, but not appreciably so.

FWIW, and with the caveat that I am not an expert on the series, my take on SCD's is that some are really cool and some are completely uninteresting. And I think the uninteresting stuff holds the entire series back. If I were looking to promote the SCD market, I'd consider writing a "Top 100 SCDs" book, or something along those lines. Worked for VAMs, didn't it? >>



I've been thinking along the same lines given the wide variety of SCDs included in the book. A smaller collection to just focus on the best of the best would better focus interest on those.

I also used to think there was a need to expand the SCD book, but that requires catalogers that are interested in both adding more material with the same date range and extending the date range to moderns. At this time, there doesn't appear to be much interest in that, however, ATS is now slabbing many medals that appear to qualify as modern SCDs so perhaps having a "HK" number isn't as important as it used to be for unlisted SCDs.

291fifth

I don't think it would have much effect on interest in the series.

After sleeping for almost 40 years the series saw a revival of interest in the 2000s when some major collections hit the market and new reference books were published.

The demand now seems to be well past its peak and they are once again snoozing.

In my area several local Sunday bourse dealers have slabbed examples of the more common issues in their display cases. All are very optimistically priced and are not moving. They should at least dust the cobwebs off them when they put them on display.

coinkat

There has been a correction. There are some that are very cool and fit into any collection

Steve27

IMO most SCDs are overpriced due to the NGC Registry Set competition. Thus, I don't think there is a need to "generate more interest."

Weiss

I'd like to see more people interested in them. Maybe more PCGS slabs will help.

Honestly, I don't care for 75% of them. But that's kind of the cool thing about them. Not all of them appeal to all collectors.

brg5658

<< <i>IMO most SCDs are overpriced due to the NGC Registry Set competition. Thus, I don't think there is a need to "generate more interest." >>



Huh? There are no NGC Registry sets for So-called dollars outside of the Wilson dollars from 1920 (HK-449 and HK-450). Care to elaborate on what your comment is supposed to mean?

Cameonut

I try to spell out acronyms in the title and then use the acronym in the posts.

With respect to the original topic (since I knew what SCD's were and collect them), I don't think that more PCGS slabbed SCDs will do much. First of all, NGC has been doing them for some time - and maybe some lower tier graders as well (I think I have seen some in newer ANACS holders). So having PCGS only gives a second choice among the top grading services.

Second, I'd guess that PCGS regularly looks at segments of the hobby to determine whether offering their services would make good business sense. When compared to other segments they are already in, offering SCD services probably won't bring them much additional revenue, but will increase their costs by having to maintain graders, populations, and so on. Probably not a good business case from their perspective, knowing there are at least two competitors in a tiny segment.

So for me, if I want a SCD slabbed (which I don't - I like these raw with original packaging if possible) I would be happy with NGC or even ANACS.

So - will PCGS slabs increase interest? In my opinion, not very much, if at all.

Zoins

<< <i>With respect to the original topic (since I knew what SCD's were and collect them), I don't think that more PCGS slabbed SCDs will do much. First of all, NGC has been doing them for some time - and maybe some lower tier graders as well (I think I have seen some in newer ANACS holders). So having PCGS only gives a second choice among the top grading services. >>



In addition to providing another choice, PCGS provides TrueView and PCGSCoinFacts which neither ATS nor ANACS really do. I personally would probably be more interested in SCDs (than I am already) if there were more TrueViews.

Overdate

I'm on a budget. Where can I find some so-called nickels?

Zoins

<< <i>I'm on a budget. Where can I find some so-called nickels? >>



In HK

Steve27

<< <i>

<< <i>IMO most SCDs are overpriced due to the NGC Registry Set competition. Thus, I don't think there is a need to "generate more interest." >>



Huh? There are no NGC Registry sets for So-called dollars outside of the Wilson dollars from 1920 (HK-449 and HK-450). Care to elaborate on what your comment is supposed to mean?


>>




There's a whole bunch of them listed under the Custom sets LINK

brg5658

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>IMO most SCDs are overpriced due to the NGC Registry Set competition. Thus, I don't think there is a need to "generate more interest." >>



Huh? There are no NGC Registry sets for So-called dollars outside of the Wilson dollars from 1920 (HK-449 and HK-450). Care to elaborate on what your comment is supposed to mean?


>>




There's a whole bunch of them listed under the Custom sets LINK >>



Custom sets are non-competitive -- so I fail to see how those have anything to do with driving interest in the SCDs. I have a custom set of 220+ horse related coins -- that doesn't draw interest in thematic collecting of horse coins. You implied that the NGC Registry Sets were inciting competition in your original post. That's simply not true. I am well aware of the Custom Sets.

brg5658

<< <i>

<< <i>With respect to the original topic (since I knew what SCD's were and collect them), I don't think that more PCGS slabbed SCDs will do much. First of all, NGC has been doing them for some time - and maybe some lower tier graders as well (I think I have seen some in newer ANACS holders). So having PCGS only gives a second choice among the top grading services. >>



In addition to providing another choice, PCGS provides TrueView and PCGSCoinFacts which neither ATS nor ANACS really do. I personally would probably be more interested in SCDs (than I am already) if there were more TrueViews. >>



It's sad (but possibly a truth) that having pictures would make people collect these more. I have only around a dozen or so "official" HK-blessed SCDs, but I'm perfectly capable of photographing them myself. There are quite good pictures on the socalleddollars.com website.

If people need a centralized (tunnel-vision) location for all of their coin-related porn images, that's sort of a sad testament to the hobby... There is a world outside of CoinFacts and TrueViews.

CoinRaritiesOnline

Anything (a new book, PCGS starting to slab them, etc.) that exposes any numismatic items to a new or larger audience is likely to increase interest.

Zoins

<< <i>It's sad (but possibly a truth) that having pictures would make people collect these more. >>



Think about monster toners (both classic Morgans and modern ASEs). I think PCGS and TrueView definitely help increase interest in both.

And I don't think it's sad because I think it's about education and communicating what is available. I think there just aren't that many places to understand what nice SCDs are actually out there for many people.

Zoins

<< <i>

<< <i>Would more PCGS slabbed SCDs increase interest in SCDs?

I would think so, but not appreciably so.

FWIW, and with the caveat that I am not an expert on the series, my take on SCD's is that some are really cool and some are completely uninteresting. And I think the uninteresting stuff holds the entire series back. If I were looking to promote the SCD market, I'd consider writing a "Top 100 SCDs" book, or something along those lines. Worked for VAMs, didn't it? >>



I've been thinking along the same lines given the wide variety of SCDs included in the book. A smaller collection to just focus on the best of the best would better focus interest on those.

I also used to think there was a need to expand the SCD book, but that requires catalogers that are interested in both adding more material with the same date range and extending the date range to moderns. At this time, there doesn't appear to be much interest in that, however, ATS is now slabbing many medals that appear to qualify as modern SCDs so perhaps having a "HK" number isn't as important as it used to be for unlisted SCDs. >>



Adding to the Top 100 SCDs book idea, this could include the top medals, regardless of whether they are HK listed or not.

I think it's fine to include HK numbers, but I don't necessarily think a new guide should be limited by them given the lack of current updates. Of course, this could change if more medals started being included regularly.

DonWillis

Would more PCGS slabbed SCDs increase interest in SCDs?


Send them in for grading! We've been grading So Called Dollars for some time.


See our latest announcement (we grade a lot of things we didn't use to).


Tokens and Medals that PCGS grades

crypto79

No,

illini420

I think that it's similar to the classic commemoratives where lots of collectors like a couple of the issues and will buy the few that they really like... but will totally ignore the rest of the series. Very few collectors actually try to complete the entire set. And even fewer will try to complete the set in PCGS holders and then compete in the Set Registry. That said, when you look at the commemorative sets on the Registry, there are quite a few sets listed, but remember that the commemoratives are actual coins issued by Government that most all collectors are aware of as they've always been listed in the Redbook.

With the So-Called Dollars, there are many many more of them out there (depending on how you define what a SCD really is), but most collectors will probably only want a few of them (and only after they discover their existence) and will ignore the rest. The number of collectors that actually try to collect them all is, and probably will always be, very very low. Getting them PCGS slabbed may help bring some awareness to those collectors who focus on slabbed coins only and who have never seen certain SCDs before. But chances are many of those collectors have seen "the cool ones" out there in the market in NGC holders already.

I certainly like being able to get mine slabbed by PCGS, but I'm not sure it's going to bring much new interest to the series.

Baley

If I already had a bunch of them, I'd be looking to "increase interest" in them. If I were shopping for them, I'd want them to stay "uninteresting" to others until my collection was complete.

As I am neither of the above, I'm an innocent bystander. I'd think that what would make people more generally interested in them is if others were making money trading them.

19Lyds

<< <i>Would more PCGS slabbed SCDs increase interest in SCDs?

I would think so, but not appreciably so.

FWIW, and with the caveat that I am not an expert on the series, my take on SCD's is that some are really cool and some are completely uninteresting. And I think the uninteresting stuff holds the entire series back. If I were looking to promote the SCD market, I'd consider writing a "Top 100 SCDs" book, or something along those lines. Worked for VAMs, didn't it? >>

Kinda in that there are some traditional VAM's which command some "currently" strong premiums and then there are a whole lot more "meh" VAM's which nobody cares about.

I believe that "popularity" follows the money and if their is not any money there, then folks move along to where the money is.

Perhaps a poll is needed for exactly how many board members actually "chase", seek out, or collect, SCD's "as a series"?

The poll results might just reveal where the problem might be.

Zoins

<< <i>Perhaps a poll is needed for exactly how many board members actually "chase", seek out, or collect, SCD's "as a series"?

The poll results might just reveal where the problem might be. >>



Per the above, I think the current HK classification probably has too much variation to interests for many to collect "as a series." There are simply too many different pieces with HK numbers for them all to be of interest as a series.

Hopefully someone can come up with a Top 100 SCD book per Andy

coindeuce

I'd love to see a more broad base of interest in So Called Dollars. I consider the pieces in my collection in much the same regard as many EAC members regard their early coppers. I don't need to have them entombed in plastic to appreciate them, and I don't believe that neophytes to this area would have any better understanding or appreciation of them just because they are wrapped in plastic. The only value added I can presently see for graded SCD's is the fulfillment of vanity within Registry competitors minds. Do I need to spend thousands on grading/authentication of my So Called Dollars ? Maybe when the time arrives for disposing of the collection; until then, negatory.
I do concur with MrEureka in that a published short set of "TOP 100" pieces could jump start more interest in this area.

Zoins

<< <i>The only value added I can presently see for graded SCD's is the fulfillment of vanity within Registry competitors minds. >>



I think TrueViews and CoinFacts are great value adds from PCGS that are independent of the Registry, but PCGS generally does a good job there too.

keets

Would more PCGS slabbed SCDs increase interest in SCDs?

yes, but then it becomes a question of how that "interest" is mixed between dealers and collectors followed by how it will affect prices. the most recent observation I have noticed is an increase in Marketing with several sellers --- some of them forum member dealers --- previously not involved with SC$'s offering them for sale in PCGS plastic and causing prices to rise. to date I am not convinced that PCGS can effectively grade these medals, and they have historically not graded to the same standard as NGC who pretty much owns the grading arena for this area of Exonumia.

Zoins, we tend to be at opposite sides in this debate. you tend to believe that expanding things will increase interest, a marketing approach, while I tend to believe that narrowing things is best, a collecting approach.

messydesk

I would suggest that there is currently more interest in collecting SCDs than 3CNs.

dbcoin

This sounds like an economics question; does supply create its own demand

Say's law

A hotly debated issue

Zoins

<< <i>Would more PCGS slabbed SCDs increase interest in SCDs?

yes, but then it becomes a question of how that "interest" is mixed between dealers and collectors followed by how it will affect prices. the most recent observation I have noticed is an increase in Marketing with several sellers --- some of them forum member dealers --- previously not involved with SC$'s offering them for sale in PCGS plastic and causing prices to rise. to date I am not convinced that PCGS can effectively grade these medals, and they have historically not graded to the same standard as NGC who pretty much owns the grading arena for this area of Exonumia. >>



It seems like many SCD prices are already high and optimistic when holdered by ATS.



<< <i>Zoins, we tend to be at opposite sides in this debate. you tend to believe that expanding things will increase interest, a marketing approach, while I tend to believe that narrowing things is best, a collecting approach. >>



Actually, I do believe in narrowing from the HK list to the Top 100 SCD concept to increase interest

LindeDad

I think more graded anything makes PCGS Happiest.

keets

It seems like many SCD prices are already high and optimistic when holdered by ATS.

part of the reason is the price guide included in the new book, but the team putting the book together had no choice about it, the publisher insisted. that in itself resulted in sellers pricing medals with no real knowledge of the market or even the medal itself.

1.) I find that with SC$'s it takes a little time studying and researching prices to know what to bid or offer.
2.) Some of the most common issues are expensive when they reach a certain grade and some of the scarcest medals are expensive in any grade, getting really expensive in the highest grades.
3.) The genuinely rare medals are always expensive and tend to only be found in better condition. They were apparently put back and their rarity understood long ago.
4.) There are medals that appeal to mainstream collectors that seem to have their prices most adversely affected.
5.) Dealers understand demand and seem to use it to their advantage. This distorts prices.
6.) If you peruse the catalogue and choose to pursue the scarcest medals with the most eye appealing designs(irrespective of the event or composition) you will be surprised --- other collectors will have done the same thing and competition will cause prices to rise.

Zoins

<< <i>It seems like many SCD prices are already high and optimistic when holdered by ATS.

part of the reason is the price guide included in the new book, but the team putting the book together had no choice about it, the publisher insisted. >>



If that's indeed true, it's interesting that the book may be contributing to the slow moving market.

Zoins

Wow, Dan just posted the following HK-820 in this thread. Way to go Dan.

I have to say having more PCGS slabbed SCDs and TrueViews would certain interest me more in SCDs as it would better demonstrate what is available.

keets

I have to say having more PCGS slabbed SCDs and TrueViews would certain interest me more in SCDs as it would better demonstrate what is available.

I would suggest that the majority of PCGS holdered SC$'s are crossovers/crack-outs. to the point of slabbed medals in general as alluded to by 'deuce, once you have logged some time researching/studying the series you will realize that buying raw is probably easier, better and cheaper. the main problem which arises is that as rarity increases so does the likelihood that a specific medal will be encapsulated. at a recent Stakc's sale all of the SC$'s were in NGC holders, many of them R-7+ and with a Pedigree.

Zoins

<< <i>I have to say having more PCGS slabbed SCDs and TrueViews would certain interest me more in SCDs as it would better demonstrate what is available.

I would suggest that the majority of PCGS holdered SC$'s are crossovers/crack-outs. to the point of slabbed medals in general as alluded to by 'deuce, once you have logged some time researching/studying the series you will realize that buying raw is probably easier, better and cheaper. the main problem which arises is that as rarity increases so does the likelihood that a specific medal will be encapsulated. at a recent Stakc's sale all of the SC$'s were in NGC holders, many of them R-7+ and with a Pedigree. >>



That kind of highlights my perspective.

I think one of the things that hurts SCD sales is that there aren't many easily accessible photos of beautiful SCDs to show people what is available.

CoinFacts and TrueViews can do that. Many current SCD websites do a great job of having photos for documentation and reference purposes but do not have glamour shots - kind of like some pattern websites actually.

Now, I do think some auction houses do a great job of photography and have good auction histories, however, some auction houses have very difficult to search archives. Even the second after an auction closes, it can be difficult to find some auction entries unless you were following it.

So either more TrueViews and CoinFacts or a website to easily assemble great auction house photos like the one mentioned could help IMO. Of course, a focus on the best of the best could also be tied to a 100 Top SCDs concept.

Broadstruck

I know a major SC$1 collector who is crossing any PCGS examples purchased to NGC as he doesn't want a collection of mixed plastic.

Zoins

<< <i>I know a major SC$1 collector who is crossing any PCGS examples purchased to NGC as he doesn't want a collection of mixed plastic. >>



I guess that could be okay if they already have CoinFacts / TrueView photos

keets

I think one of the things that hurts SCD sales is that there aren't many easily accessible photos of beautiful SCDs to show people what is available.

I wish I had more time to offer to something connected with the SC$ website. pictures could be stored there and it would be a good way to get collectors to view the catalogue. better than tmot/jonathanb and the other guys might be something with Jeff Shevlin. I would help but don't have much time to offer.

Baley

spread information on nice SCDs wider and generate more interest?

The only ones that want to "generate more interest" in something are those with some of that thing to sell. I'd think that someone in the market for something would want to keep it on the down low and if anything, have less interest so they could work on their collection. Once the collection is finished and for sale, that's when they want "more interest"

Zoins

<< <i>

<< <i>spread information on nice SCDs wider and generate more interest? >>



The only ones that want to "generate more interest" in something are those with some of that thing to sell. >>



That seems a bit cynical. Nothing wrong with education and sharing information IMO. Do you think everyone who gets and posts a TrueView is ready to sell?



<< <i>I'd think that someone in the market for something would want to keep it on the down low and if anything, have less interest so they could work on their collection. Once the collection is finished and for sale, that's when they want "more interest" >>



I was originally responding to others that were concerned that interest was waning, however, I'm not aware of whether they had selling positions or not at the time. Additionally, an issue with thin demand pieces is that without enough demand, the best pieces might not even see the light of day.

Weiss

<< <i>spread information on nice SCDs wider and generate more interest?

The only ones that want to "generate more interest" in something are those with some of that thing to sell. I'd think that someone in the market for something would want to keep it on the down low and if anything, have less interest so they could work on their collection. Once the collection is finished and for sale, that's when they want "more interest" >>



I think that's unfair. We're in the golden age of "social numismatics". This website is a perfect example of how people share their excitement for the hobby and their favorite coins. SCDs are an important but mysterious part of American numismatics. The more people who are aware of them, the more exciting the field will become. It's not always about the $$.

1patwick

In 2017, there is no Full Color So-Called Dollar Guide Book or a computer program to record our hobby. The present Guide, "So-Called Dollars" 2nd Ed. was an improvement over the 1st Edition but an up-date is surely needed to include the later unpublished SCD's and the new discoveries - in color.

We all chose to collect SCD's for some reason. I do not collect SCD's to make money,

jmlanzaf

SCDs have always been something of a hobby backwater. Creating Dansco albums or Registry sets might help - collectors are fundamentally whole fillers - but there are many kinds of exonumia that simply have limited appeal. Slabs alone aren't the problem. Many people don't collect slabs at all.

You could ask the same thing about just about anything you like that other people eschew. Personally, I'm glad when I like something no one else likes...it makes it affordable!

Collect for fun. Profit is an accident.