1892 Half Crown - Victoria Jubilee Head

brg5658

Today was my first time to the MOON Show in the Minneapolis, MN area. I went with no particular idea of what to expect, but after my normal "one-time-through browse", I stopped back at the few tables that caught my eye. In the end, I only purchased one coin for the day, but it was one that was on my want-list for quite some time.

I found this nice example (pictured below) of a Half Crown that features the small rendition of St. George Slaying the Dragon on the reverse splitting the date. The fact that St. George is on a horse is one draw for my collecting niche -- another draw is that I simply have a hard time saying no to a coin with this amount of eye appeal that also pictures Queen Victoria. It was a nice perk that it was also a better date of the small half crown Jubilee Head series.

It resides in a problem free older holder, and feel free to give a stab at the grade if you so please. Sorry for the scuffed up slab pics -- I did as much buffing as I could, but a few scuffs still remain and can be seen in my pictures below.

Cheers,
-Brandon

bronzemat

Amazing toning & stunning coin all around.

Zohar

Perfect!

JohnnyCache

It's just beautiful.
Luscious toning provides for wonderful eye appeal.
Congratulations

JC

JCMhouston

Lovely coin.

MacCrimmon

Stunning eye-appeal !!!

DorkGirl

Amazing! Thanks for sharing.

RobP

EF obverse, the reverse a little better. So AU58 or MS60

AuroraRarities

Gorgeous! Congratulations on that find!

wybrit

Very nice find. I used to go to the MOON show when I lived up there. I found some pretty good British stuff from time to time.

brg5658

Thanks for all the nice comments guys.

Here's the grade composite shot.

johnny9434

thats a wicked nice looking half crown. i like the color on it as well

Type2

Nice nice nice.

Steve27

I'm not a big fan of toned coins, but in this case I'll make an exception; very very nice!

Yorkshireman

Beautiful coin!!

I am starting a half crown collection. Hope I can find one that nice.

7Jaguars

Wow, I think you may have done well on the grading there. As Rob put it, I think there are signs of friction and not just strike weakness to the brow and cheek of Vicky & some of the veil highpoints as well.

Still, not to get too strict as it is an attractive coin as has been pointed out. This may have been packaged as one of the specimen sets, which is possibly where the toning came from as well.

brg5658

<< <i>Wow, I think you may have done well on the grading there. As Rob put it, I think there are signs of friction and not just strike weakness to the brow and cheek of Vicky & some of the veil highpoints as well.

Still, not to get too strict as it is an attractive coin as has been pointed out. This may have been packaged as one of the specimen sets, which is possibly where the toning came from as well. >>



Firstly, it's in an OGH graded more 15 years ago, so I didn't "do well" on the grading. I purchased in it's current holder.

Secondly, in my opinion, it has at most ever so slight "cabinet friction". There is no way the coin circulated given the luster in hand. I get that in the UK grading system it would probably be an AU, but I strongly agree with the current PCGS holder grade of MS64 (in the US system).

In the end, with color like this one has, it doesn't really matter what the holder says. I have not seen an 1892 half crown with more eye appeal. If you have or have pictures of one, I'd love to see images.

nicholasz219

Stunning coin! Very nice to see material like this come about. I hope you were able to get a nice price on it as well.

7Jaguars

Goodness, let's not be so touchy.

I just said it is a nice coin and likely a GEF by Brit standards. It is in fact repeated by those in the so-called specimen sets as well.

mnemtsas2

Lovely half crown!

MacCrimmon

<< <i>

<< <i>Wow, I think you may have done well on the grading there. As Rob put it, I think there are signs of friction and not just strike weakness to the brow and cheek of Vicky & some of the veil highpoints as well.

Still, not to get too strict as it is an attractive coin as has been pointed out. This may have been packaged as one of the specimen sets, which is possibly where the toning came from as well. >>



Firstly, it's in an OGH graded more 15 years ago, so I didn't "do well" on the grading. I purchased in it's current holder.

Secondly, in my opinion, it has at most ever so slight "cabinet friction". There is no way the coin circulated given the luster in hand. I get that in the UK grading system it would probably be an AU, but I strongly agree with the current PCGS holder grade of MS64 (in the US system).

In the end, with color like this one has, it doesn't really matter what the holder says. I have not seen an 1892 half crown with more eye appeal. If you have or have pictures of one, I'd love to see images. >>




Exactly, brg5658. I was going to say it looks undergraded by a point, but then I'm not as good as grading coin images as some are. Let's see; an OGH graded in-person, by professionals, during arguably the most conservative PCGS-era to date ..................... I'd say Vegas would put the odds at 1-2 for an upgrade to a 65. If CAC graded Victorian, 50-50 it would get a gold bean.

wybrit

As I said, it is a very nice find. I for one am jealous in the best of ways and I agree with Mac that it could be an upgrade candidate.


That's probably the nicest Brit coin to come out of MOON in, well, many many moons.

brg5658

<< <i>Goodness, let's not be so touchy.

I just said it is a nice coin and likely a GEF by Brit standards. It is in fact repeated by those in the so-called specimen sets as well. >>



You may have noticed the wink at the end of my post. I wasn't trying to be "touchy", I was just clarifying that I had purchased the coin as it was. In addition, I equate giving a grade in the British system when I specifically mention it is in a USA TPG holder to be something akin to giving me a price in Zimbabwe dollars when I ask for guesses as to how much I paid. It can be said that it's "GEF" all day in the British system, but (IMO) it is properly graded as MS in the US system. That's all I was saying.

7Jags, I really appreciate your reference to the so-called specimen sets. It's been interesting posting this coin on a few world forums -- all of the Brits question the toning. I think they are so unaccustomed to seeing toning, that they have not developed an eye for the tell-tale signs of AT. There is nothing about the toning on this coins that looks questionable to me. It looks similar to some Maundy pieces I have seen, and I assumed it was a function of the packaging in which it was stored. Do I assume that the packaging of these specimen sets was in some sort of velvet lined box?

Thanks,
-Brandon

ajaan

Great coin, fantastic look! I wouldn't try for an upgrade unless you do a crossover. I wouldn't break it out. BTW, I think the color is original, who knows what PCGS will say the second time around.

brg5658

<< <i>Great coin, fantastic look! I wouldn't try for an upgrade unless you do a crossover. I wouldn't break it out. BTW, I think the color is original, who knows what PCGS will say the second time around. >>



Thanks ajaan. I don't play the crack out game, and I'm not selling this coin anytime soon. Maybe in 40 years I will think about putting it on the market.

marcmoish

Agreed I would leave it alone.

Its def well graded - looks great - looks original - and I imagined it in a 64 holder too before I read the disclosed grade.

You did great - enjoy it for those 40 years you mentioned

MacCrimmon

<< <i>

<< <i>Goodness, let's not be so touchy.

I just said it is a nice coin and likely a GEF by Brit standards. It is in fact repeated by those in the so-called specimen sets as well. >>



You may have noticed the wink at the end of my post. I wasn't trying to be "touchy", I was just clarifying that I had purchased the coin as it was. In addition, I equate giving a grade in the British system when I specifically mention it is in a USA TPG holder to be something akin to giving me a price in Zimbabwe dollars when I ask for guesses as to how much I paid. It can be said that it's "GEF" all day in the British system, but (IMO) it is properly graded as MS in the US system. That's all I was saying.

7Jags, I really appreciate your reference to the so-called specimen sets. It's been interesting posting this coin on a few world forums -- all of the Brits question the toning. I think they are so unaccustomed to seeing toning, that they have not developed an eye for the tell-tale signs of AT. There is nothing about the toning on this coins that looks questionable to me. It looks similar to some Maundy pieces I have seen, and I assumed it was a function of the packaging in which it was stored. Do I assume that the packaging of these specimen sets was in some sort of velvet lined box?

Thanks,
-Brandon >>




They question the toning??? Then I'd suggest doing a little reading about TFI in the link which poorboy so kindly hosted. For those that don't know, Sunnywood is one the greatest "purists" insofar as collecting original condition coinage.

Another thing; in the era your lovely half crown was graded, no one gave a whit about AT-ing British coins. If something's only worth a pair of tenners, why bother messing with it. People AT coins to deceive so as to make big dosh, not for sheets and grins.

brg5658

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Goodness, let's not be so touchy.

I just said it is a nice coin and likely a GEF by Brit standards. It is in fact repeated by those in the so-called specimen sets as well. >>



You may have noticed the wink at the end of my post. I wasn't trying to be "touchy", I was just clarifying that I had purchased the coin as it was. In addition, I equate giving a grade in the British system when I specifically mention it is in a USA TPG holder to be something akin to giving me a price in Zimbabwe dollars when I ask for guesses as to how much I paid. It can be said that it's "GEF" all day in the British system, but (IMO) it is properly graded as MS in the US system. That's all I was saying.

7Jags, I really appreciate your reference to the so-called specimen sets. It's been interesting posting this coin on a few world forums -- all of the Brits question the toning. I think they are so unaccustomed to seeing toning, that they have not developed an eye for the tell-tale signs of AT. There is nothing about the toning on this coins that looks questionable to me. It looks similar to some Maundy pieces I have seen, and I assumed it was a function of the packaging in which it was stored. Do I assume that the packaging of these specimen sets was in some sort of velvet lined box?

Thanks,
-Brandon >>




They question the toning??? Then I'd suggest doing a little reading about TFI in the link which poorboy so kindly hosted. For those that don't know, Sunnywood is one the greatest "purists" insofar as collecting original condition coinage.

Another thing; in the era your lovely half crown was graded, no one gave a whit about AT-ing British coins. If something's only worth a pair of tenners, why bother messing with it. People AT coins to deceive so as to make big dosh, not for sheets and grins.
>>



I paid well more than £20 for the coin, but point taken. Thanks for the toning transition link. I know I had seen that write-up before years ago, but it's always nice to have a refresher.

7Jaguars

I am going to weigh in with NO OPINION! Haha...

Seriously, Mac that reference is fine but does not negate "doctored" toning/AT either as there certainly is more than one way to "enhance" toning so that there are the lovely gradations described.

I have seen several Brit coins, as you no doubt have, that have been in felt lined cases and that do have nice toning with even a certain rainbow appearance. I have also noted some silver coins to have a slight ?mauve? toning - almost a light purple oxidation.

I know of some coins actually put back in these cases....The 20th C . cases, particular the 1927-53 sets have card lining with cardboard construction that should lend themselves to sulfur/sulfide toning but somehow this does not play to great effect on billon silver or copper nickel coins...

brg5658

I'm getting torn to pieces on a couple other threads about this coin (all by UK collectors -- go figure).
.
.
(shrug)
.
.
To each his/her own.

Link #1

Link #2

MacCrimmon

<< <i>I'm getting torn to pieces on a couple other threads about this coin (all by UK collectors -- go figure).
.
.
(shrug)
.
.
To each his/her own.

Link #1

Link #2 >>





Don't worry brg5658; nothing but a bunch of gits over there, eh?

I've had to apply copious amounts of eye salve to my only good eye after viewing Peter's link to "acceptable" 1892 half crowns..............GACK! Suffice it say, they've never seen naturally toned gems in the UK because 99% have already been dipped and scrubbed up, and then left to retone what I refer to as "ghastly grey". Not sure why they like 'em that way, but maybe they were fond of porridge in their youth, and just can't shake the colour from their mind's eye.

BTW Peter, I see your using one of my old avatars, the 1773 1/4d. Glad you like it.


Also, love your 1868 4d. Maundy, brg. Looks like it spent time in a Wayte Raymond album. Eric Newman would approve heartily. Give me a call if you ever want to sell......I'd pay multiples of "ghastly grey" for that gem.

toodles

brg5658

<< <i>
I've had to apply copious amounts of eye salve to my only good eye after viewing Peter's link to "acceptable" 1892 half crowns..............GACK! >>



For posterity's sake, here are two of the coins linked to me by a UK collector as "typical 1892 high quality 2/6's". In my eyes, neither has original lustrous surfaces, and both have been ruined by polishing.

This was is listed as "EF" for £100.



And, this one is listed as A/UNC for £110.

7Jaguars

Yes, those are bad examples. I must say there is much finer generally available from the UK, and that strikes me as a filler that may have been picked up in a "job lot" and subsequently put up for sale . I think maybe you should have been privy to the stock at Baldwin's or Spink in the grand old days - I can assure you they had absolutely superior specimens (BTW, no "advanced" toning)...

brg5658

<< <i>Yes, those are bad examples. I must say there is much finer generally available from the UK, and that strikes me as a filler that may have been picked up in a "job lot" and subsequently put up for sale . I think maybe you should have been privy to the stock at Baldwin's or Spink in the grand old days - I can assure you they had absolutely superior specimens (BTW, no "advanced" toning)... >>



I probably wasn't alive in what you refer to as the "grand old days".

coinkat

I really don't know what to write or say here...

coinkat

After thinking about this further and looking at the pictures of what some consider acceptable 1892 1/2 crowns posted in response to the coin that was the initial subject of this thread, I will just submit the three pictures- the original and the two added and just rest my case.

In this instance, pictures are worth 1,000 words.