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A Semi-Profound Coin Question
thisnamztaken
Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭✭✭
Whatever happened to the 2005 Silver Surfer Quarters? Are they legal to own? Does anyone even care? 
When first released, the Mint said they were illegal because they were a form of advertising but Fox claimed it was basically a "Commemorative" coin, therefore legal. I just did a quick Google search, but didn't find any current info concerning their legal status.
Anyone here have one? Post em' (if they're legal to own) if you've got 'em.
When first released, the Mint said they were illegal because they were a form of advertising but Fox claimed it was basically a "Commemorative" coin, therefore legal. I just did a quick Google search, but didn't find any current info concerning their legal status.
Anyone here have one? Post em' (if they're legal to own) if you've got 'em.
I never thought that growing old would happen so fast.
- Jim
- Jim
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Comments
The mint isn't seizing them, but they are illegal for the reason stated.
The mint has a short blurb about them on their site.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
<< <i>I believe altering US coinage is illegal. >>
I think that is for currency...otherwise dcarr stuff, hobo nickels, love tokens...blah blah blah...
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
<< <i>I believe altering US coinage is illegal. >>
Altering or defacing US money is legal except in these four specific situations:
1) For fraudulent purposes (to defraud someone).
2) Lightening (shaving off metal).
Techincally, hobo nickel carving is illegal. But nobody cares now that gold and silver coins are not common in circulation.
3) Melting large quantitities of cents and nickels.
4) Affixing commercial advertising.
So the "Silver Surfer" quarters are technically illegal. As is stamping "WheresGeorge.com" on dollar bills.
<< <i>
<< <i>I believe altering US coinage is illegal. >>
Altering or defacing US money is legal except in these four specific situations:
1) For fraudulent purposes (to defraud someone).
2) Lightening (shaving off metal).
Techincally, hobo nickel carving is illegal. But nobody cares now that gold and silver coins are not common in circulation.
3) Melting large quantitities of cents and nickels.
4) Affixing commercial advertising.
So the "Silver Surfer" quarters are technically illegal. As is stamping "WheresGeorge.com" on dollar bills. >>
100% correct dcar! A common misconception that "messing" with a coin is illegal. True only if doing so is fraudulent for the reasons you list. Drill a coin to mount on a necklace or key-chain - OK. Put a coin on a rail road track and have it flattened - OK. All those elongated "pennies" you see on boardwalks or at fairs - OK.
<< <i>
<< <i>I believe altering US coinage is illegal. >>
Altering or defacing US money is legal except in these four specific situations:
4) Affixing commercial advertising.
So the "Silver Surfer" quarters are technically illegal. As is stamping "WheresGeorge.com" on dollar bills. >>
But wouldn't that make them illegal then, since Fox had those stickers applied in order to advertise their SS movie?
- Jim
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I believe altering US coinage is illegal. >>
Altering or defacing US money is legal except in these four specific situations:
4) Affixing commercial advertising.
So the "Silver Surfer" quarters are technically illegal. As is stamping "WheresGeorge.com" on dollar bills. >>
But wouldn't that make them illegal then, since Fox had those stickers applied in order to advertise their SS movie?
????
As mentioned it is illegal to advertise on us issues:
Here is the blurb from the mint
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I believe altering US coinage is illegal. >>
Altering or defacing US money is legal except in these four specific situations:
4) Affixing commercial advertising.
So the "Silver Surfer" quarters are technically illegal. As is stamping "WheresGeorge.com" on dollar bills. >>
But wouldn't that make them illegal then, since Fox had those stickers applied in order to advertise their SS movie?
It was "illegal" of the production company to distribute the quarters but its not "illegal" to own them.
I need to break out my Where'sGeorge stamp.
Oh wait.............would that be "illegal" to own??
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I believe altering US coinage is illegal. >>
Not illegal unless it's to defraud.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
"The Treasury's Letter to Vance Fowler
Is it legal to press pennies or other coins?
Mr. Angelo Rosato reproduced this letter from the Department of the Treasury to Mr. Vance Fowler in his book "Encyclopedia of the Modern Elongated", (ISBN 0-9626996-2-4) angrospub@aol.com. The letter was dated July 22, 1980, letterhead: The Department of the Treasury, Office of the Director of the Mint, and is probably the source of many quotes collectors have seen over the years. It reads in part:
"This is in reply to your letter of Jun 20, 1980, concerning United States statutes governing the destruction, melting, or other extramonetary uses of United States coins. You refer to and question the legality of a souvenir machine which compresses coins and returns a souvenir. You refer to Title 18, U. S. C. sections 331 and 475.
As you are already aware, a federal statute in the criminal code of the United States (18 U.S.C. 331), indeed makes it illegal if one "fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales or lightens" any U.S. coin. However, being a criminal statute, a fraudulent intent is required for violation. Thus, the mere act of compressing coins into souvenirs is not illegal, without other factors being present.
Section 475, which you refer to in your letter, regarding the attachment of notice or advertisement to legal tender, does not apply to your souvenirs in this case. Your are not impressing or attaching a business or professional card, notice or advertisement to a coin, your are simply making an impression on the coin.
We hope this information answers your question. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.
Sincerely,
Kenneth B. Gubin
Counsel to the Mint."
<< <i>Interesting opinion on elongated cents from the Mint's counsel:
"The Treasury's Letter to Vance Fowler
Is it legal to press pennies or other coins?
Mr. Angelo Rosato reproduced this letter from the Department of the Treasury to Mr. Vance Fowler in his book "Encyclopedia of the Modern Elongated", (ISBN 0-9626996-2-4) angrospub@aol.com. The letter was dated July 22, 1980, letterhead: The Department of the Treasury, Office of the Director of the Mint, and is probably the source of many quotes collectors have seen over the years. It reads in part:
"This is in reply to your letter of Jun 20, 1980, concerning United States statutes governing the destruction, melting, or other extramonetary uses of United States coins. You refer to and question the legality of a souvenir machine which compresses coins and returns a souvenir. You refer to Title 18, U. S. C. sections 331 and 475.
As you are already aware, a federal statute in the criminal code of the United States (18 U.S.C. 331), indeed makes it illegal if one "fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales or lightens" any U.S. coin. However, being a criminal statute, a fraudulent intent is required for violation. Thus, the mere act of compressing coins into souvenirs is not illegal, without other factors being present.
Section 475, which you refer to in your letter, regarding the attachment of notice or advertisement to legal tender, does not apply to your souvenirs in this case. Your are not impressing or attaching a business or professional card, notice or advertisement to a coin, your are simply making an impression on the coin.
We hope this information answers your question. If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us.
Sincerely,
Kenneth B. Gubin
Counsel to the Mint." >>
Funny.
The positioning of the name and letter writers title makes the word "Gubinmint" pop into my head..........
The name is LEE!
<< <i>As mentioned it is illegal to advertise on us issues:
Here is the blurb from the mint >>
Thanks for the link MsMorrisine. The Mint sounds quite vague as to if or who will/might prosecute/fine someone who affixes ads to coins, but it definitely seems to be illegal in the case of those S.Surfer quarters:
"Although the United States Mint does not have the authority to enforce Federal criminal laws pertaining to the integrity of U.S. coinage, one such law specifically addresses the use of U.S. coinage for commercial advertising. The relevant statute is 18 U.S.C. § 475, which states the following:
18 U.S.C. § 475. Imitating obligations or securities; advertisements.
Whoever designs, engraves, prints, makes, or executes, or utters, issues, distributes, circulates, or uses any business or professional card, notice, placard, circular, handbill, or advertisement in the likeness or similitude of any obligation or security of the United States issued under or authorized by any Act of Congress or writes, prints, or otherwise impresses upon or attaches to any such instrument, obligation, or security, or any coin of the United States, any business or professional card, notice, or advertisement, or any notice or advertisement whatever, shall be fined under this title."
- Jim
<< <i>Why would WheresGeorge.com be considered a commercial endeavor? >>
I agree with this. What is commercial about this?
I have not seen this site, but if there are any links to advertising on it that curious folks that receive these bills click on, there could be some indirect revenue stream coming in from this??
Chris' Complete Lincoln Variety Set 1909-date
<< <i>Why would WheresGeorge.com be considered a commercial endeavor?
I have not seen this site, but if there are any links to advertising on it that curious folks that receive these bills click on, there could be some indirect revenue stream coming in from this?? >>
That could be.
<< <i>Why would WheresGeorge.com be considered a commercial endeavor?
I have not seen this site, but if there are any links to advertising on it that curious folks that receive these bills click on, there could be some indirect revenue stream coming in from this?? >>
The site was investigated by the Secret Service in 2000, I think. The only thing the SS made them do was to stop selling rubber stamps and such with the website address on it. So, even though it is probably illegal to write the website on currency, the SS seems okay with letting the website continue as long as: A) They don't sell the stamps and such, and
<< <i>100% correct dcar! A common misconception that "messing" with a coin is illegal. True only if doing so is fraudulent for the reasons you list. Drill a coin to mount on a necklace or key-chain - OK. Put a coin on a rail road track and have it flattened - OK. All those elongated "pennies" you see on boardwalks or at fairs - OK. >>
Of course the government doesn't care if you destroy money, they get to keep the seigniorage! HAhahaha....
<< <i>the SS seems okay with letting the website continue >>
I'm sure they quickly realized they had more mission critical functions to perform.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!