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1817 O.105 vs. O.105 "Prime" vs. O.105a - seeking experts' explanations

PCGS Priceguide now lists the value for the 1817 O.105, the early die-state (but not earliest die-state) without a die crack on the reverse above "OF". I understand examples without any traces of die cracks on both the obverse and reverse exist (so-called "prime" die state), but PCGS does not list the value for those, understandably, because so few exist.

PCGS says an O.105 (not prime) in VG10 is worth apx. $7,500, and a VF35 nearly twice that. My question - is this value more accurate for the "prime" die state, or is the die-state with no die crack on the reverse really that rare?

And - my other question - how rare is the O.105a w/out die cracks at the lower obverse compared to O.105a's that have these cracks? image

I'm just a little confused. I'm sure a Nut can explain image Thanks in advance.





Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist.

Comments



  • << <i>PCGS Priceguide now lists the value for the 1817 O.105, the early die-state (but not earliest die-state) without a die crack on the reverse above "OF". I understand examples without any traces of die cracks on both the obverse and reverse exist (so-called "prime" die state), but PCGS does not list the value for those, understandably, because so few exist.

    PCGS says an O.105 (not prime) in VG10 is worth apx. $7,500, and a VF35 nearly twice that. My question - is this value more accurate for the "prime" die state, or is the die-state with no die crack on the reverse really that rare?

    And - my other question - how rare is the O.105a w/out die cracks at the lower obverse compared to O.105a's that have these cracks? image

    I'm just a little confused. I'm sure a Nut can explain image Thanks in advance. >>



    There is the O-105 that has no die cracks, then the 105a' that has only obverse die cracks, then the regular 105 that has all the crack.

    The no crack version is very rare (R7?) and the 105a version with only obverse cracks is an R6ish.

    As far as value goes, its anyone's guess. One recent O-105, in XF40 (NGC) went for $300 (Mozin has it). Not sure if one has come up since then. You often need a perfect storm for die states to bring any sort of premium.
    You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 105 prime has no die breaks on the obverse. The 105 has obverse breaks but none on the reverse. The 105a has breaks on the reverse as well.

    Here is an early 105 (but not prime). It has the first break to appear running from edge through S-9 to cap, but no sign of the break at the date.

    image
    image
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭
    Thanks guys, I get it now. image

    I'd love to own one of those "prime" examples!
    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist.
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,438 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks guys, I get it now. image

    I'd love to own one of those "prime" examples! >>



    Yeah, and I'd love to think my 105 was worth 7500 dollars. The odds of you finding a prime are probably better.image
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.


  • << <i>

    << <i>Thanks guys, I get it now. image

    I'd love to own one of those "prime" examples! >>



    Yeah, and I'd love to think my 105 was worth 7500 dollars. The odds of you finding a prime are probably better.image >>



    Where did you find that coal black gem, on the floor of a basement in an abandoned house? Lol

    According to the AMBPR, the O-105 has no cracks (this is not considered prime), whereas the 105a prime only has obverse cracks. Only no crack examples are considered O-105's and the 105a begins with cracks, most of which are the full blown 105a model with reverse cracks. Just to clarify.

    Higher grade examples in original condition will bring huge premiums over common 1817's for sure, but lower grade ones, I doubt it.
    You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • Heres my 105 example that I got certified last year...Very early die state with no signs of cracks

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