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Problem Legislative Bill in Connecticut
Chessman
Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭
Major coin dealers in the state have been sending out warnings about this new bill which has strong support in the legislature:
"CT Raised Bill 928
by Tara Bowman on 04/26/13
I am writing to inform you about a bill that is in front of CT legislature. This bill will make it extremely difficult for Coin Dealers to stay in business in Connecticut. It will most likely close all coin shops in CT and cancel all coin shows.
"Please contact your senators and congressmen and tell them you are opposed to this bill.
"Here is a summary of the bill: http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/BA/2013SB-00928-R000114-BA.htm
"The bill will require all coin dealers, precious metal dealers, and stone dealers to keep detailed records of every purchase they make, any identifying information on the items they purchased, photographs of each item purchased, as well as name, address, phone number, and photo identification of each person they buy something from.
"The bill is unclear on the matter of photographing the items purchased. If coin dealers will need to photograph and email photo and list to the state for every single coin they purchase, this would be impossible. There are days when a dealer can purchase 15,000 coins in one day! If dealers are required to email the list and photographs each week, it would take more than one week to even take the pictures.
"There is also, a clause in the bill that basically states, that the reporting requirements can be changed at any time.
"This bill will cause all coin dealers to move out of Connecticut. Which would leave the public at the mercy of the Pawn Shops. Let me explain why that is bad; we have had customers in here who have stopped a pawn shops first before coming to a coin dealer. coin dealers generally pay anywhere from 2 - 10 times the price of pawn shops. The widest range we have seen, at Brookfield Coin is where we paid a customer $1600.00 for something the pawn shop only offered $2.00 for!!!
"Here is where you can find information on the bill, and how far it has gotten in legislation: http://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/cgabillstatus/cgabillstatus.asp?selBillType=Bill&bill_num=928&which_year=2013&SUBMIT1.x=-643&SUBMIT1.y=0&SUBMIT1=Normal
"PLEASE CONTACT SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES AND TELL THEM WHY YOU ARE AGAINST THIS BILL!"
Gary North (Tea Party Economist) also wrote about this bill last weekend: Text
They already have enough laws to deal with stolen items, don't they, is this not what it is really about?
"CT Raised Bill 928
by Tara Bowman on 04/26/13
I am writing to inform you about a bill that is in front of CT legislature. This bill will make it extremely difficult for Coin Dealers to stay in business in Connecticut. It will most likely close all coin shops in CT and cancel all coin shows.
"Please contact your senators and congressmen and tell them you are opposed to this bill.
"Here is a summary of the bill: http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/BA/2013SB-00928-R000114-BA.htm
"The bill will require all coin dealers, precious metal dealers, and stone dealers to keep detailed records of every purchase they make, any identifying information on the items they purchased, photographs of each item purchased, as well as name, address, phone number, and photo identification of each person they buy something from.
"The bill is unclear on the matter of photographing the items purchased. If coin dealers will need to photograph and email photo and list to the state for every single coin they purchase, this would be impossible. There are days when a dealer can purchase 15,000 coins in one day! If dealers are required to email the list and photographs each week, it would take more than one week to even take the pictures.
"There is also, a clause in the bill that basically states, that the reporting requirements can be changed at any time.
"This bill will cause all coin dealers to move out of Connecticut. Which would leave the public at the mercy of the Pawn Shops. Let me explain why that is bad; we have had customers in here who have stopped a pawn shops first before coming to a coin dealer. coin dealers generally pay anywhere from 2 - 10 times the price of pawn shops. The widest range we have seen, at Brookfield Coin is where we paid a customer $1600.00 for something the pawn shop only offered $2.00 for!!!
"Here is where you can find information on the bill, and how far it has gotten in legislation: http://www.cga.ct.gov/asp/cgabillstatus/cgabillstatus.asp?selBillType=Bill&bill_num=928&which_year=2013&SUBMIT1.x=-643&SUBMIT1.y=0&SUBMIT1=Normal
"PLEASE CONTACT SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES AND TELL THEM WHY YOU ARE AGAINST THIS BILL!"
Gary North (Tea Party Economist) also wrote about this bill last weekend: Text
They already have enough laws to deal with stolen items, don't they, is this not what it is really about?
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Comments
this sounds familiar. i think something like this was implemented in florida and while i understand some of the reasoning and logic, it is juts asinine to actually expect people to follow all the requirements. maybe an exception would be high arrest/conviction districts or for businesses proven to have bought/sold to people convicted of crimes through their businesses or something like that.
i didn't read this entirely but i recall one of the requirements was for dealers to possibly hold bullion items? for like 30 days or something completely unreasonable given market volatility
one of the benefits is for investigations of violent crimes or high dollar amounts. i was on the edge of an investigation of a murder of an older gentlemen that had a large collection of coins that were sold to various businesses in mine and surrounding counties and one of the coins was one that is a common double eagle, virtually impossible to determine which one is which for the common ungraded dates and having a picture record from the businesses where this collection was distributed would help connect stolen/absconded items to the people selling them. it is very easy to purchase items that came from crimes, weeks, months, years later and we would be none the wiser. i have literally thousands of coins with numismatic value that would be insane to have to photograph and inventory because of the threat of fine/jail.
there is a ton to say on this subject but my fingers are tired for the day
.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>So if a dealer in Connecticut buys a bag of wheat pennies, he has to list, photograph, and report each of the 5,000 coins in it? >>
I think I would try to, just to overload the system. Let them know how vast the industry is by making it impossible to take in all the info being shoved their way.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
Hoard the keys.
<< <i>
<< <i>So if a dealer in Connecticut buys a bag of wheat pennies, he has to list, photograph, and report each of the 5,000 coins in it? >>
I think I would try to, just to overload the system. Let them know how vast the industry is by making it impossible to take in all the info being shoved their way. >>
This, and then I would never take another pic to send to them. They could decide to take me to court and I would be willing
to bet that any judge and jury would say that the law is unmanageable and the state cannot force compliance as it would
not be possible to comply.
bob
the pending sales tax law.
<< <i>The coin business will wind up underground between crazy ideas like this in CT and
the pending sales tax law. >>
Yup. More face to face cash transactions mostly at shows and at coin shops. Less sales tax for the states that pass unreasonable laws such as this.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
I can see it now, their inbox filled with 50-1GB emails, loaded with pictures of wheat cents, buffalo nickels without dates and indian head cents. Multiplied by however many dealer there are in CT each and every day...
Let them know that they'll need to upgrade their servers to handle the HUGE volume of data that they are requesting, plus the manpower to organize and sort through it all...
Ask them how they will distinguish between my circulated 1958-D Lincoln and any other circulated 1958-D Lincoln.
This sort of vague requirement is pointless... some may interpret this requirement as one picture per coin while others might see it as one picture per pile of coins.
Currency - 1928-1929-1934 Series Stars All Denom. - 126 of ~846
Lincoln Cent Varieties
Baseball cards: Kirby Puckett
Several of my local coin dealers did attend. I don't think the intent is to photograph every wheat cent or piece of 90% silver you get in. But it does seem to imply that
every individual and identifiable piece of jewelry be photographed. Whether the authorities would ever look at even 1% of the photos is questionable. Following a burglary
they'd probably check the files for photos of newps. Barring that, they'd be very infrequent visitors. State of Connecticut already has laws on the books for over 25 years now
that requires dealers to sit on stuff for a period of time, make available a record of all purchases for local police, etc. Many don't already follow the current rules and police rarely
enforce them. The current bill would be a large additional burden and cost on coin dealers. It would certainly change the landscape.
Earlier link from February on this bill
Sellers aren't exempt either as they would have to provide detailed ID information if they sell bullion, jewelry, or watches. Those details would include photo ID, name, address, and
an identifying number, not limited to date of birth (ie possibly state DMV operator's number, SSN, etc.). I guess if you have a tatoo with a number on it you can give them that.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
<< <i>Connecticut Begins Gold Dealer Shutdown >>
This is one reason why I have never purchased anything from the US Mint. I just don't want to be in that database.
<< <i>
<< <i>Connecticut Begins Gold Dealer Shutdown >>
This is one reason why I have never purchased anything from the US Mint. I just don't want to be in that database. >>
thats why many of us (including myself) dont buy from the mint. the less they know the better off we are.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Connecticut Begins Gold Dealer Shutdown >>
This is one reason why I have never purchased anything from the US Mint. I just don't want to be in that database. >>
thats why many of us (including myself) dont buy from the mint. the less they know the better off we are. >>
The paranoids get really tiring...
Bullion and Coins
For bullion and coin sales, in addition to the requirements under current law, the bill requires dealers to keep the record in English, be consecutively numbered, and include the seller's general description.
Recordkeeping Exemptions
The licensing authority may exempt dealers from any record-keeping or police officers from any inspection requirement or establish additional or different description requirements depending on the nature of the property, transaction, or business, including articles sold in bulk lots or with minimal value. It is unclear how the licensing authority will exempt police officer inspections or identification checks.
Now obviously most coin dealers will also buy gold, silver, platinum jewelry etc... But it isn't as bad as some are making it out to be.