VAT on European shipments to US

worldcoinguy

Why do vendors retain VAT on shipments from Europe to US? I assume the vendors are pocketing the VAT collected if they do not have to pay it themselves. Most MA Shops offerings state that VAT is included in the price, but shouldn't price be adjusted if buyer is outside the European zone? Why must the buyer have to haggle with the vendor to reduce price to account for VAT - shouldn't a clearinghouse like MA Shops take this into account?

YQQ

Firstly, MA-Shops is NOT a clearing house.
Every dealer under the MA shop umbrella is 100% on its own, but is governed by the MA shop rules of Warranty and return guaranties.

VAT taxation

Here it is, to the best of my knowledge, and based on many a few years of experience with German dealers and auctioneers. Auctioneers must add the VAT on to the hammer price and must also add VAT to their fees. VAT on their fees is payable by all, even if exported outside the EU. VAT is collected from buyers with an address within the EU. Dealers with an address within the EU can provide their own VAT number and do not have to pay the VAT right there.
If the auctioneer or his accredited agent directly exports the item to a place outside the EU, NO VAT is added to the invoice. (except to the fees or any other services provided within the country)

Normally all pricing must be the sales price and must include VAT at the prescribed rate by each country. This applies to goods where a sellers purchase price is documented.

Every dealer must have a VAT registration and state their VAT number on each sale.
IF a dealer exports directly to an address outside the EU, a buyer is entitled to have the VAT taken off the invoice.
Example: Coin is priced at Euro 100. VAT is included at 7% (in Germany) so, the selling price is 107%. it goes like this:
100:107x100= Net cost = 93.46 Euro.
this is what you would expect to pay under normal circumstances. Right?
makes sense.
HOWEVER, most coins are governed by a tax section which allows for tax to be paid ONLY on the difference from what a dealer "says" he paid for it and what he sells it for. They call it difference taxation and is based on the "honour" system. And since most dealers do these transactions in cash..., you be the judge. It is, like all over the world, a murky area. The dealer records his purchase from a private individual for Euro 80 (even though he only might have paid Euro 30 in cash)and sells it to you for Euro 100. what he really paid for, who cares.
Would you want to mess with it for a few bucks? And yes, they will pocket the difference because they can.

You are better off to negotiate a final price with a MA shop dealer and have him ship it for free or whatever. Most will accommodate your request. This applies for items valued at less than Euro 1000.

If the item is Euro 1000 or more and in order for a buyer to receive a credit for VAT, the seller has to do some paper work and, unless he has permission from the VAT taxation authority, he has to take the item and produce it at a customs office which will certify export of the item. ( most reputable dealers do have permission)
You can always ask the seller to take off the VAT for export, but he does not have to do it.
There is one way to actually comply a dealer to refund the VAT. It is a process which takes time and goes like this:
Pay the full amount to the dealer.
Have the Item shipped by the dealer to your address.
take the shipment UNOPENED to either a customs office or a German consulate.
Open the Shipment there and have them certify that the item has been legally exported from Germany and legally imported to your country.
Then submit the export/import documents back to the dealer. He will in due time re-imburse you for the VAT, less his handling charges and expenses.
There are different VAT regulations governing Bullion coins some specific collector coins.

worldcoinguy

<< <i>You are better off to negotiate a final price with a MA shop dealer and have him ship it for free or whatever. Most will accommodate your request. This applies for items valued at less than Euro 1000.
>>



I think you nailed it. Thanks for the time to put all those thoughts in a response. You are right about the clearinghouse - I used the wrong choice of words to describe.

cacheman

I've just contacted the dealer outside of MA and received a flat 10% discount on the MA price. You have to ask though. They aren't beholding to MA if a piece sells outside of MA, the dealer just pulls the listing, gives you a 10% discount and still pockets the fee they would have paid to MA for selling it.

I remember writing to the MA website people about paying VAT when I shouldn't. Never got any word back which wasn't a surprise when you figure they are making a living off this 'tax' alone.

YQQ

cacheman,
I do know the Owner of MA shops.
I assure you, MA shops has nothing to do with ANY of the dealers under their umbrella.
MA only provides the "vehicle". I.E. Software and conditions.
They do however get a small commission on each sale and charge a annual membership fee for each dealer.
They do not accept every dick tom and harry who wants to sign up. They are selective. and you must comply with their requirements.
to make deals is up to each individual dealer. What usually happens when a dealer makes an outside deal is that the dealer pays a commission to MA shops anyway. Only fair as they provide the venue.