NEED HELP-INDIAN PEACE MEDAL-AMERICAN FUR COMPANY

CoinNewBee

Bought this medal just recently but I can't find anything like it. The American Fur Company medals that I know of have the profile of John J. Astor on the obverse.
It appears to be authentic. The case shows the impression of the medal into the fabric in a way that could only happen with real age.
Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.

CoinNewBee

Here's the other side and the case it's in.

ricko

What is on the edge?? Nice looking medal.... cannot help you with authentication, but sure looks good. Cheers, RickO

lordmarcovan

Very interesting. Looks hand-engraved. And yes, old.

CoinNewBee

The edge says AMERICAN FUR COMPANY
Here's a photo of the full front.

tydye

Interesting. Was there a gilt on it? Patina looks odd. What is the size?

kiyote

I can offer nothing, other than to say WOW that is a cool find!

Weiss

Doesn't look "right" to me. At best, with nothing to go on, it looks very late 19th century. At worst, it looks manufactured to deceive mid-20th century.

I talk out of my behind most of the time, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Weiss

Look at this piece by comparison:

Astor American Fur Medal @ Stacks

coindeuce

You may want to send a PM to Pistareen on the premise that he may not see this thread. He is an expert on the subject of americana related to the colonial/post colonial fur trade in North America.

CoinNewBee

It's 65mm give or take half a mm, not exactly round and more.

coindeuce

PM sent.

CoinNewBee

It's a silver plate. The PEACE AND FRIENDSHIP side was against the fabric in the case and it looks as thought the silvering reacted with the fabric tarnishing the silvering black. The eagle side doesn't have the blacking.

CoinNewBee

It could be reproduction. It has the look of an handmade piece. The eagle looks as thought it was added to planchet and maybe wasn't struck. The silvering is covering any visible joint that would show the adhesion.
I'm trying to figure out what I have.

sniocsu

Very cool medal

coindeuce

I tend to agree with the observation of Weiss. The style of medalists/die sinkers from the early part of the 19th century did not involve incuse lettering on the final product, as this would necessitate hand engraving each and every letter of the text in relief on the dies, which would have been very labor intensive, and would not be practical for most private die sinkers, who had limited technology for hardening dies. Most medallic issues from the time period indicated on your medal would have been produced with lettering in relief, which would be the result of engraving the lettering incuse in the dies. Hand engraving on early medals (final product) would have been limited to special orders of personal awards. This looks more like a Centennial souvenir of the Company, from the 20th century.

CoinNewBee

THE FINAL WORD FROM PISTAREEN**IT'S A 1940-50's FAKE.
DIDN'T SPEND MUCH AND DIDN'T GET MUCH.....AHH LIFE!!!

Hi Michelle:

Thanks for the email and images. It's what popularly called a "gun show fake," not resembling anything that every existed, just a fantasy creation. The same person/company who made this made a lot of the fake slave tags and Indian Peace medals, probably ca. 1940s-50s. It may have curiosity value to someone, but not much.

I wish it was a real one! Alas, 95% or more of the "Indian Peace medals" I'm sent images of are not genuine or even particularly old.

Be well -- sorry to not bring better news.

JK

CoinNewBee

ONE FINAL WORD.
YOU FOLKS OUT THERE ARE GREAT!!
THANKS FOR THE HELP!!