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Pieces of eight and Russian "whopper coppers"- recent inexpensive newps
lordmarcovan
Posts: 43,198 ✭✭✭✭✭
These came in the swapping sessions I had with pals during my NC vacation. They'll like as not end up going back out in trades or to eBay/BST eventually, but I thought they were fun and couldn't pass 'em up. I got those "pieces of eight" crazy cheap, I think. Just 15 bucks a pop- that's nuts! Below melt! So what if they have some issues, right? I didn't see how I could lose on those. Even if they're fake. But I don't think they are. Just a little messed with.
Great Britain: sixpence of William III, 1696
A bit scratched up, but it was so cheap it was almost free, as I recall. Just a neat old cheapo. Looks better than my scans, too.
Mexico: 2 reales 1754-Mo
Modest grade, but nice and original, unlike the 8-reales pieces to follow.
Mexico 8 reales 1768-Mo
Polished, some scratches, but VF+ details. I think this would be what, a $200-ish coin without the issues? Not too shabby for fifteen bucks, eh? Below melt! Think I ought to get it in a "genuine" slab, or should I even bother? Obviously it won't grade, but with a VF "details" grade, it might sell well in plastic, wouldn't you think? Nah, I'll probably sell it raw. It looks great in hand- just too shiny. There are some flat areas that caused some missing letters. I don't know how much of this was strike and how much was scuffing/scratching after the fact. Probably a bit of both.
Mexico: 8 reales 1786-Mo
Heavily polished with many Asian chopmarks. The former is pretty heinous, but the latter are kind of neat. In hand this has an unnatural, chromey shine. Still, it might make somebody a cool golf ball marker or jewelry/belt buckle piece. (That might have been its past incarnation, actually.)
Mexico: 8 reales 1796-Mo
This one ain't bad at all, in hand. Rather than the brutal polishing/whizzing, it got more of a light dipping.
Peru: 8 reales 1797
Light polishing here, but not so bad looking in hand. Just a tiny bit overshiny, is all.
These Catherine the Great Russian 5-kopeck pieces are always fun, due to their huge, thick flans. I've always liked 'em and they're not terribly expensive. I forget what I have in these- probably the standard ten or fifteen bucks a pop- but hey, why not, right?
1768-EM
1772-EM
1780-EM
Cleaned, but sharper detail than the other two- VF-ish, I'd say.
Great Britain: sixpence of William III, 1696
A bit scratched up, but it was so cheap it was almost free, as I recall. Just a neat old cheapo. Looks better than my scans, too.
Mexico: 2 reales 1754-Mo
Modest grade, but nice and original, unlike the 8-reales pieces to follow.
Mexico 8 reales 1768-Mo
Polished, some scratches, but VF+ details. I think this would be what, a $200-ish coin without the issues? Not too shabby for fifteen bucks, eh? Below melt! Think I ought to get it in a "genuine" slab, or should I even bother? Obviously it won't grade, but with a VF "details" grade, it might sell well in plastic, wouldn't you think? Nah, I'll probably sell it raw. It looks great in hand- just too shiny. There are some flat areas that caused some missing letters. I don't know how much of this was strike and how much was scuffing/scratching after the fact. Probably a bit of both.
Mexico: 8 reales 1786-Mo
Heavily polished with many Asian chopmarks. The former is pretty heinous, but the latter are kind of neat. In hand this has an unnatural, chromey shine. Still, it might make somebody a cool golf ball marker or jewelry/belt buckle piece. (That might have been its past incarnation, actually.)
Mexico: 8 reales 1796-Mo
This one ain't bad at all, in hand. Rather than the brutal polishing/whizzing, it got more of a light dipping.
Peru: 8 reales 1797
Light polishing here, but not so bad looking in hand. Just a tiny bit overshiny, is all.
These Catherine the Great Russian 5-kopeck pieces are always fun, due to their huge, thick flans. I've always liked 'em and they're not terribly expensive. I forget what I have in these- probably the standard ten or fifteen bucks a pop- but hey, why not, right?
1768-EM
1772-EM
1780-EM
Cleaned, but sharper detail than the other two- VF-ish, I'd say.
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Comments
I have a fake silver 8 reales copy ... I'll have to dig it up and compare to yours. I can't remember when it was made (before or after "copy" was included in the die).
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
I'll give you $30 for it !!! Double what you paid lol.
I didn't realize those old Russian coppers were so reasonably priced. Fascinating to compare them with our own from the period.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
If you have definitive reasons it might be counterfeit, I am all ears and eager to hear them. Naturally I am offering a full return privilege with it on eBay (seven days, I think).
It has a fakey sort of look in hand, but I am presuming that to be because it was polished to an unnatural shine. Could the cleaning be what is triggering your distrust of it? It's got the right sort of edge design and doesn't look to be cast. If it is a counterfeit, it's a reasonably sophisticated one. I know the Chinese have been counterfeiting just about any crown-sized silver coin, but I can often spot them, because, as you mentioned, the lettering is often "off" a bit.
I do not have enough experience with these to know for sure. It raised no red flags with me. Roman, aka "TwoKopeiki", who has more experience as a collector of Spanish Colonials and 8-reales pieces, didn't raise any, either. He had me post bigger pictures of the date in this thread, to see if it was an overdate or not.
The coin does indeed have an "incorrect overall look" due to the cleaning. Plus, its higher grade does give it a bit of that "too good to be true" aspect. But until it is demonstrated otherwise, I am not prepared to pull down the auction just on one person's gut feelings, if you know what I mean. If there is concrete evidence, sure. But would like to see some comparisons on the lettering fonts, to see what you're talking about.
I probably should have gotten this in a "genuine" details-grade slab before offering it, I suppose, but I didn't. Too much hassle and time to spend on a problem coin I didn't intend to keep. So I plopped it on eBay and it has been doing quite well. But that's eBay, where people will bid on anything.
Thank you for expressing your concerns, though. Really. Let's have a further discussion on this, because I don't want to sell a fake coin, if it IS fake. Perhaps this deserves its own thread.