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Was I wrong here?

I have upset a seller very much and I would like some ubiased opinions as to whether or not I was wrong here.

I purchased this item:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/160796890330?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

It is listed under hammered medieval coins. The photo is very small and impossible to determine what the coins were, at least to a non expert like me. I got the coins and all were coins from 1900s and a couple of late 1800s. I was expecting hammered coins because thats what the auction was under and nothing in the description said otherwise.

I asked seller for a refund, he refused and I left a neutral feedback. His response was to leave a fake positive feedback for me and send me a very rude email.

Was I wrong for the neutral feedback and to have expected hammered coins?

Comments

  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From what I understand, even if the auction states "No Returns" you're still covered by the buyer's protection and could return the coins for a refund. If the seller refuses to refund, PayPal / eBay would have ruled in your favor anyway and would have forced the seller to refund you.

    His comment on his feedback was out of line and I can only imagine what he wrote to you in an email.

    The listing is in the same category in both the US and British eBay sites: Coins > British > Hammered (Pre-c.1662) > Later Medieval (1154-1485) so your point was correct and if you really weren't able to identify any of the coins in the image, the only thing you could go on would be the description (not very descriptive) and the category.

    So, to summarize, personally I don't think you were wrong for leaving neutral feedback after the seller refused to accept the return. Just my 2 cents.
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭


    << <i>From what I understand, even if the auction states "No Returns" you're still covered by the buyer's protection and could return the coins for a refund. If the seller refuses to refund, PayPal / eBay would have ruled in your favor anyway and would have forced the seller to refund you. >>



    Paypal Buyer protection is pretty solid. Your case has some merit, but it's not a lock. Even after feedback is left, I think you might still be able to open a paypal claim.

    I myself just opened my first Paypal claim as a buyer in many years now. I wasn't going to make a new thread about it, but it was along the same lines as your situation. Crappy pics, seller says no returns, but the item was not described properly at all. In my case, it was a buyer who had bad pics of a banknote and said there is a "small tear", pics showed wear, but no major tears.

    Below is my pic of what I received. I also bought another lot from the same seller at the same time, five more old banknotes. No mentions of tears in the description and none showing in the pics, 4 of the 5 had major tears.

    image
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
  • I would guess that 50% of coins on ebay are in the wrong category. Personally I don't even consider the category when searching ebay. You took a chance and lucked out.
  • marcmoishmarcmoish Posts: 6,209 ✭✭✭✭✭
    IMHO You owe him an apology.

    It says no where in auction description of medieval coins.

    He may have listed it under the wrong listing category but most really don't look at at that - even if they do - its the auction title that counts and the description.

    Dunno what more to say my friend.
  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭


    << <i>IMHO You owe him an apology.

    It says no where in auction description of medieval coins.

    He may have listed it under the wrong listing category but most really don't look at at that - even if they do - its the auction title that counts and the description.

    Dunno what more to say my friend. >>



    His conduct afterwards has made me wish I had left a negative. He made a mistake and he should of accepted a return for it. If he would of, he wouldnt have gotten a positive. A person should be able to assume that the item they are purchasing is from the category it is listed under if the pics are not clear and the desciption doesnt state otherwise.
  • As a frequent buyer and seller, I tend to agree with marcmoish. The category should never really factor in, only the description. Additionally, you as a buyer should always beware when buying a "lot" of items when you can't clearly identify them. Third, and maybe this is because my eye is a little more seasoned, I'm not sure how anyone could mistake any of these for hammered medieval. They're all milled copper and maybe some silver -- a few even look like they have Queen Elizabeth II on them! I think you bought exactly what is shown in the picture -- a bunch of unknown coins.
    Yes, I do sell on Ebay

    Feel free to ask for my BST references!

    *I reserve the right to change the direction of my collection at whiplash-inducing speeds.
  • ZoharZohar Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would have refunded or tried to compensate in form of discount - image is very small. Category under Coins > Coins > British > Hammered (Pre-c.1662) > Later Medieval (1154-1485) ... better to lose a bit in such circumstance vs. get into such aggression.


  • onejinxonejinx Posts: 299
    Looks like he described them fine.

    Next time ask for better pics.
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Looks like he described them fine.

    Next time ask for better pics. >>



    Since the image is bad, let's pretend it's not there at all.

    What is left are 2 things - description and a category.

    Description is vague - "50 AS DUG ENGLISH COIN FINDS UNSEARCHED UNCLEANED NICE GROUP". This description just effectively covered 500+ years of British coinage. The buyer needs more information, so he looks at the category.

    Category is "Hammered (Pre-c.1662) > Later Medieval (1154-1485)"

    What the seller is selling is a bunch of 20th century coins.

    I fail to see a connection between a finely described auction and the above scenario. Must be my language barrier.
  • PBRatPBRat Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭
    If I am browsing the Category Coins > Coins > British > Hammered (Pre-c.1662) > Later Medieval (1154-1485) and I see a listing for 50 coins, I would presume they are Later Medieval. I would have filed a Not As Described claim when the Seller refused a refund. In my opinion, you were not wrong to leave the Neutral.

    Also, the Seller is way out of line with his feedback and followups ...
    - THESE COINS WERE LISTED AS BRITISH COINS NOT HAMMERED YOU AMERICAN FOOL
    - IDIOT AT LARGE DO NOT SELL DO NOT BUY NOTHING BUT TROUBLE FROM THIS IDIOT
    - THIS BUYER IS TROUBLE BEWARE BEWARE IDIOT AT LARGE TROUBLE HERE

  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The seller was completely in the wrong, IMO. His conduct post-sale also cannot be defended. That said,
    we're not talking about a huge amount of money here. If you don't want the coins, I'd just sell them
    and recoup what you can. Generally, if you aren't clear on what you're bidding on, it's best to ask
    questions in advance.
  • most definitely on ebay, the term "category" is used loosely. Just check out the "Colonial Coins" category on ebay-- where you'll find Indian Head pennies, victorian halfpennies, even jewelry. You really do have to recognize the coins themselves..or as others have stated, ask for better pictures.
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    By the way, I would contact eBay about removing that feedback. Doubt insults and personal attacks are allowed.
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>most definitely on ebay, the term "category" is used loosely. Just check out the "Colonial Coins" category on ebay-- where you'll find Indian Head pennies, victorian halfpennies, even jewelry. You really do have to recognize the coins themselves..or as others have stated, ask for better pictures. >>


    Well, yes, but in most of those cases there is no confusion since the title or photo(s) indicate the actual item
    for sale.
  • JustlookingJustlooking Posts: 2,895
    Seems like a lot of consternation over $34. I would consider this cheap tuition. I would have asked the seller for better pictures, or a better description. You can't tell much from the photo provided, but those coins don't look very old.
    Let's try not to get upset.
  • AndresAndres Posts: 977 ✭✭✭
    its pretty obvious the coins in the picture are not hammered old coins,
    but modern made ones.
    but thats what I see, if your not an expert or collector of old stuff, I can imagine you go by the categorie they are listed in.

    I think its a lazy, sloppy seller, rubbish picture and wrong category & vague description.
    he is way out of line not accepting a return of these coins and return postage, paid by him, and a humble apology on top.
    he deserves a negative imho.
    collector of Greek banknotes - most beautifull world banknotes - Greek & Roman ancient coins.
  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭


    << <i>its pretty obvious the coins in the picture are not hammered old coins,
    but modern made ones.
    but thats what I see, if your not an expert or collector of old stuff, I can imagine you go by the categorie they are listed in.

    I think its a lazy, sloppy seller, rubbish picture and wrong category & vague description.
    he is way out of line not accepting a return of these coins and return postage, paid by him, and a humble apology on top.
    he deserves a negative imho. >>



    I am not an expert on those coins, my bid was much higher than the winning bid actually because I was expecting silver. When he refused a refund I think neutral was apporpriate under the circumstances.
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,964 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Why were you expecting silver from that lot? I see one coin that is vaguely silvery the rest are dirt brown.



  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭
    Because they didnt make copper coins in those days and the photo said "as dug" I assumed they were just dirty. I was naive. Lesson learned. (cheaply)
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭
    The seller shouldn't have listed the coins in the wrong category- no question. That said, bidding on "No returns" auctions is a recipe for disaster.
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