Why no "Reholder with tag" service?

messydesk

Can anyone come up with a good reason for our hosts not to offer a service wherein a coin in an old holder is put into new, shiny, scratch- and chip-free plastic along with the tag that came out of the old holder? Even the rattler tag should fit in a new holder with no problems. Oh, and screwing up slab collectors is not a good reason.

TURBO

Money.

lkeigwin

Excellent idea. After all, with a reholder all we care about is new, clean plastic. Why shouldn't the cert stay the same?

Did you present this idea and was it shot down?

The only reason I can see for not allowing it is "because that's not the way we do it".
Lance.

Frankiefanatic

It would have been nice to get my old tags back when I resubb'd a few coins recently- kind of like seeing provenance at its finest...

notwilight

Many have asked. I have several OGH coins that would be on their way for reholder with this service. --Jerry

WTCG

People get upset when they lose an old label because they lose a gimmick to justify squeezing a few extra dollars when selling. Currently an old label denotes a slab that was not recently graded. When old labels turn up in new holders those old labels will quickly lose appeal.

Sticking an old label inside a new holder is akin to selling a bottle of 2011 fortified wine in a bottle labled with a 2002 vintage.

messydesk

<< <i>Money. >>


Charge an extra $2 special handling for it, then.


<< <i>Don't the newer tags have more built in security features? >>


The SP ones do, but it really shouldn't matter if the submitter just wanted new plastic around his coin and wanted to retain the old label.


<< <i>People get upset when they lose an old label because they lose a gimmick to justify squeezing a few extra dollars when selling. >>


Then allow them to keep the old label and the gimmick. It's not like there aren't other gimmicks offered by the TPGs (e.g., First Strike™, etc) to allow a seller to attempt to squeeze more money from a sale. Besides the gimmick, however, there is the perfectly valid reasoning that a coin that has been in an old holder has stable surfaces. Reholdering a coin and keeping the old label doesn't change this.


<< <i>Currently an old label denotes a slab that was not recently graded. When old labels turn up in new holders those old labels will quickly lose appeal. >>


Reholdering doesn't mean the coin's being regraded, does it? An old label inside new plastic would still mean the coin hasn't been recently graded. A coin in an old holder with so many scuffs on it that I can't see the coin is not terribly appealing, anyway.


<< <i>Sticking an old label inside a new holder is akin to selling a bottle of 2011 fortified wine in a bottle labled with a 2002 vintage. >>


Not really. The coin is the same and has not been played with or regraded. If I wanted to use the wine analogy, to me it seems more like sticking a 2002 vintage bottle of wine into a newer case.

On 4/1/2010, Don Willis said, "If I had a bunch of really nice coins in OGH I would think long and hard before I had them regraded under either service. There's something about those old holders....." If that 'something' is merely a gimmick, he should find a way to dispel the myth surrounding the gimmick. If, on the other hand, that 'something' is implied stability of the coin, he should find a way to carry that forward through what should be a rather simple process.

RYK

I have often wondered the same.

There are probably logistical issues, but if there was enough demand for it, and PCGS could profit from the service, it seems like it could be done.

One caveat is that perhaps a lot of people are instead pushed to get a new slab, and might as well have the coin regraded at the same time.

Personally, one impediment for me doing this (like having my coins TrueViewed) is that nearly all of my slabs are now stickered, so a roundtrip to California would have to be paired with a roundtrip to New Jersey, and just the thought of doing all of that makes it not worth it for me.

LanLord

Have the tags been consistently the exact same size, or would that cause some sort of issue with varying sized tags "floating" or alternately hanging over the tag well in the plastic?

stman

<< <i>Besides the gimmick, however, there is the perfectly valid reasoning that a coin that has been in an old holder has stable surfaces >>

mingot

what we need is a new service that sells a holder that holds old holders of varying sizes!

seriously, it would be nice if PCGS could photograph and log the old cert number. That way you could get the information when you did a cert lookup, but still have the benefit of the any counterfeit features in the new holder. They could even make it so that if you looked up the old holder number it would link to the new number (which would include the history).

19Lyds

<< <i>People get upset when they lose an old label because they lose a gimmick to justify squeezing a few extra dollars when selling. Currently an old label denotes a slab that was not recently graded. When old labels turn up in new holders those old labels will quickly lose appeal.

Sticking an old label inside a new holder is akin to selling a bottle of 2011 fortified wine in a bottle labled with a 2002 vintage. >>

Not really since once you break the seal on the wine you begin a chemical reaction that changes the wine but I get what you are saying.

In reality, for coins, whats the diff? As long as the coin and label stick together.

Other than the particular slab being used, most OGH's are offered with the possibility of an upgrade since the coin was graded so long ago. Exactly what difference would it make if the old label were in a newer slab? I mean, the coin hasn't been regraded so it still retains the grade it had so many years ago. Right?

On the flip side though, other than actual slab definition, it might make counterfeit detection it bit more dicey.

Personally, I'm against the idea since its the label/slab combination which makes the older coins appealing.

keets

if i'm not mistaken, with the re-holder service the original cert number is used and the original tag should be returned to the submitter the same as a cross-over. that would allow you to "prove" the age of your slab.

CoinJunkie

<< <i>if i'm not mistaken, with the re-holder service the original cert number is used and the original tag should be returned to the submitter the same as a cross-over. that would allow you to "prove" the age of your slab. >>


You are not mistaken, and I like the idea of returning the original tag. Asking for the same tag to be put
into a new slab is probably unlikely from a process logistics standpoint...

lkeigwin

<< <i>Personally, one impediment for me doing this (like having my coins TrueViewed) is that nearly all of my slabs are now stickered, so a roundtrip to California would have to be paired with a roundtrip to New Jersey, and just the thought of doing all of that makes it not worth it for me. >>


Remove the green sticker before you send it in, then reapply it. I have done this on reholders and the sticker shows no sign of abuse. Use a sharp razor and take your time.
Lance.

stman

<< <i>

<< <i>Personally, one impediment for me doing this (like having my coins TrueViewed) is that nearly all of my slabs are now stickered, so a roundtrip to California would have to be paired with a roundtrip to New Jersey, and just the thought of doing all of that makes it not worth it for me. >>


Remove the green sticker before you send it in, then reapply it. I have done this on reholders and the sticker shows no sign of abuse. Use a sharp razor and take your time.
Lance. >>



Say it ain't so!!!!!

stealer

<< <i>

<< <i>Personally, one impediment for me doing this (like having my coins TrueViewed) is that nearly all of my slabs are now stickered, so a roundtrip to California would have to be paired with a roundtrip to New Jersey, and just the thought of doing all of that makes it not worth it for me. >>


Remove the green sticker before you send it in, then reapply it. I have done this on reholders and the sticker shows no sign of abuse. Use a sharp razor and take your time.
Lance. >>


Somebody just opened a very, very big can.
I thought it was supposedly "impossible" to do that without destroying or damaging the sticker in some way.

Let's see some pictures.

Moldnut

And what do you do with the hologram on the reverse? It would look real funny seeing a green label with a new hologram sticker. You would know that its not original and it would lose its appeal like WTCG said.

notwilight

<< <i>People get upset when they lose an old label because they lose a gimmick to justify squeezing a few extra dollars when selling. Currently an old label denotes a slab that was not recently graded. When old labels turn up in new holders those old labels will quickly lose appeal.

Sticking an old label inside a new holder is akin to selling a bottle of 2011 fortified wine in a bottle labled with a 2002 vintage. >>



HUH? reholdering has nothing to do with regrading. My avatar is in an OGH. It was the first coin I bought when green labels were all there were. To me it just wouldn't look the same in a new blue label. --Jerry

lkeigwin

No, it is not impossible at all. It isn't even very difficult.

I had nothing to lose because I knew the coin wasn't coming back with its sticker. So I decided to give it a shot. Didn't know what to expect. I guessed it would tear or split, like price tags on merchandise do.

I used a new, flat blade razor at a very tight angle, slightly scratching the slab in the process (who cares). When about 1/3 was lifted I pulled the rest off with my fingers. Took 60 seconds, maybe.

When the reholder came back the sticker went back on. A 1926-S 64RB Lincoln cert# 03936624

Pictures? Of what? The slab with the sticker? I have pix of all my coins but not the slabs. They're currently in a vault in town or I would happily shoot it.
Lance.

coindeuce

<< <i>Sticking an old label inside a new holder is akin to selling a bottle of 2011 fortified wine in a bottle labled(sic) with a 2002 vintage. >>



No it ain't. Try some better logic. Maybe akin to putting 2002 vintage wine in a 2011 bottle with a 2002 vintage l-a-b-e-l. Putting an old coin in a new capsule doesn't change the age of the coin or the label.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Have the tags been consistently the exact same size, or would that cause some sort of issue with varying sized tags "floating" or alternately hanging over the tag well in the plastic? >>



One can see a lot of PCGS holders out there that have the labels in kockeyed.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>And what do you do with the hologram on the reverse? It would look real funny seeing a green label with a new hologram sticker. You would know that its not original and it would lose its appeal like WTCG said. >>



Exactly. Putting an old insert into a current holder would almost certainly raise questions about counterfeit/fake slabs, etc. As if there aren't enough posts about them already. PCGS would have to hire a full time person just to handle the inquiries and we'd need a separate forum just for all the fake slabs on eBay posts. Can you imagine the flak here if someone was trying to sell a coin with a current holder and a 3.5 label?

Won't ever happen, but I wish PCGS would consider reholdering in an original holder. That is if I send in a doily, I get back a doily.

stealer

<< <i>No, it is not impossible at all. It isn't even very difficult.

I had nothing to lose because I knew the coin wasn't coming back with its sticker. So I decided to give it a shot. Didn't know what to expect. I guessed it would tear or split, like price tags on merchandise do.

I used a new, flat blade razor at a very tight angle, slightly scratching the slab in the process (who cares). When about 1/3 was lifted I pulled the rest off with my fingers. Took 60 seconds, maybe.

When the reholder came back the sticker went back on. A 1926-S 64RB Lincoln cert# 03936624

Pictures? Of what? The slab with the sticker? I have pix of all my coins but not the slabs. They're currently in a vault in town or I would happily shoot it.
Lance. >>


Well. There goes CAC

mingot

<< <i>Well. There goes CAC >>



You guys realize that cac has an online cert lookup, right?

stealer

<< <i>

<< <i>Well. There goes CAC >>



You guys realize that cac has an online cert lookup, right? >>


Yes but wasn't the purpose of CAC stickers to not be able to be lifted?

mingot

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Well. There goes CAC >>



You guys realize that cac has an online cert lookup, right? >>


Yes but wasn't the purpose of CAC stickers to not be able to be lifted? >>



I am sure the stickers were meant to be tamper resistant, but if they *really* though they would be tamper or counterfeit _proof_ they would not have created the online cert lookup

stealer

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Well. There goes CAC >>



You guys realize that cac has an online cert lookup, right? >>


Yes but wasn't the purpose of CAC stickers to not be able to be lifted? >>



I am sure the stickers were meant to be tamper resistant, but if they *really* though they would be tamper or counterfeit _proof_ they would not have created the online cert lookup >>


Fair enough

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>Well. There goes CAC >>



You guys realize that cac has an online cert lookup, right? >>



Yep. Now one can put a fake insert into a fake slab and put a legit bean on it and no one will be the wiser until you get it in hand. A CAC lookup on their site will indeed tell you what you want to know.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Well. There goes CAC >>



You guys realize that cac has an online cert lookup, right? >>



And do all the buyers at coin shows, etc, stop long enough to access the site & check?

My experience says people in general are easily misled/'fooled', (care to check ebay anyone?) ...and this 'story' will *undoubtedly* eventually contain chapters wherein switched stickers are a huge financial headache to someone(s). >>




Even if you check the CAC site and it says that the coin in your hand [or the dealer's case] has been stickered by them, what assurance do you have that it is THE SAME coin that CAC approved? It looks like CAC may need to have a detailed photo of the slab.

BAJJERFAN

a bump in time saves 9.